The top 10 countries to live in when you're older

[Miles_FTA]

2 Things I wanted to comment on here.

1) On Israeli affiliate managers - I think the aggressive nature of these guys is due to a few factors but given that Israel is surrounded by its enemies and countries determined to wipe them out as nation and destroy their country Its not surprising they carry that hard edge all of them would have had to serve the military in one capacity or another and this also adds to that hard aggressive attitude. I dont believe all of them are bad people or arrogant etc but i do feel that circumstance also leads to how they carry themselves and act when it comes to business its you or me kind of attitude in bread due to living the sort of lives they have too.

Israel is Beautiful and the government does go out of its way to support their own so living as an old person in Israel could be a good life .

2) Renee made some great points on Australia and I wish we also had such strict government control would make it so much less dangerous to live here.

I love South Africa .. We have Great people , Great Sports Teams , Great Weather but a ****** Corrupt Government that's put us on a downward spiral and turning a great place to live into a Gangsters Paradise where being Corrupt and violent is a way of life it sucks really . I dont have a choice and want to Stay here but if things dont improve then well i just will be so sad as i dont want my Kids growing up living in fear .

I would Choose New Zealand as my haven if i ever had to like the people . like their sports and attitude as well as the diversity they have as far as Culture and landscape goes.

[Sherlock]

Not in eastern bloc and never was.

Nice one. I hear you Tito!

[Triple7]

@Sherlock
Well, ok, than I misunderstood that. I am sorry for that. And I do think there is always some threat over there. And they know that. They’re not like many Europeans that have the illusions that there isn’t any threat at al land that there will never be anymore any threat.
@Sherlock/Miles FTA
First of all: I absolutely do not consider critics on Israeli affiliate programs or managers as blaming Jews. I neither don’t like the attitude of many Israeli affiliate managers. The thing is that many non-Israeli affiliate programs are having (ex-)affiliates as affiliate managers. (ex-)affiliates know this business, now how things are working and also do know what sort of things are annoying. They also know which webmaster they can “annoy” and which ones not.
Israeli affiliate programs do employ a lot of “junior affiliate managers” that do not have any experience in this business. And they work with an instruction form, not with gambling business experience that many other affiliate managers do have. So, they’re more into making deals monthly to get some better position and have that printscreen for their boss to show him they’re doing a fantastic job.
I also do not like the approach of many of them. They do not know anything about gambling, affiliate business, etc. I think this has al lto do with the way these programs are structured. I try to support Israel as much as I can with buying their products, etc, but I do not promote brands like 888, William Hill for obvious reasons and I do not work (anymore) with affiliate programs like Ladbrokes because some of their junior affiliate managers are too annoying.
@Sherlock
I lived for almost 4 years in South America. After that I had to go back because of work. South America is wonderful as long as you have money. With an European mentality and an average South American income, it isn’t that wonderful. It’s also always a big difference between spending sometime somewhere on holidays and living somewhere for a longer time.
Where I lived almost everything was cheap, but indeed, when you wanted quality, everything was far overpriced. Luxury supermarkets were even more expensive than in Western Europe, appartments in “quality areas” were quite expensive. Emergency situations will cost you more than in Europa for sure and by many people Europeans are always seen as tourists. So they will be paying more at many places. When I wanted to buy a t shirt at a market, i had to pay like 15 dollars, my (now ex-) girlfriend had to pay 10 dollars and her more indian looking cousin had to pay 7 dollars.
Public transport were mainly microbuses that were also stopped all the time in the traffic jam. Dogs were on the streets everywhere, people also and as “tourist” many areas were better to avoid. Trash was threwed away everywhere, etc. They keep clean some (touristic) hot spots, but behind that curtain it’s a mess usually.
It depends on which points you compare I think. Hungarians for example to me are quite different than for example Romanians. For example the refugee question… for Hungary it’s an absolutely no go. For Romania it’s ok as long as they can make some profit with it, like access to Schengen or getting some money from the European Union.
After all I also would prefer South America, but for me Romania for example or Slovakia isn’t t a very bad option at all. Czech, Poland, Hungary and Bulgaria I do not see myself liivng.

[Sherlock]

Very good post, you really lived down here. I forgot about the trash. And ****. I live by something that is a beautiful lagoon. Unless you go closer and realize where the sewers end.

I must admit that now with the recession, which brought Brazil to the knees, the life here is better than used to be. Few years ago Brazil was in huge hype, but it was not justified by anything (like productivity of work or so). It used to be 2.5x more expensive country 4 years ago! Minimum wage used to be here for brief period higher than in East Europe, which did not make sense at all. It was like observing an asylum. Now it is classic South America finally

The other LatAm Spanish speaking countries did not have that hype and keep their steady lifestyle, as the Brazilian pendulum is going to the other side, things can be really ugly here. Latin america is chaotic, that means that everyone here get lost in the chaos. That chaos brings a lot of good things and lot of bad things.

Btw. living in South American space is perfect school for the internet space. I see many similarities. To learn how to survive and solve problems here taught me a lot how to survive and solve problems online. I strongly disagree with people that think they will learn and be more productive if they move to Silicon Valley or some other "perfect place". Even the Eastern Europe comfort makes me weak and lazy soon. Imperfection is better than perfection.

If I had to choose an EE country, it would be Romania, but it is the country I know least. I love Slovenia, but it is a bit too cozy. Slovakia and Czech are two closest countries from all EE countries, so picking up Slovakia and not Czech does not make sense (just logical nitpicking). The problem with Czech republic is that many people think Czech = Prague, which is far from reality. Prague is a different world, fast, business driven, opened to the world influence so much that it loses its spirit. I lived there almost 20 years and fled fast. Prague is an Alpha city, huge contrast to the rest of country or villages and smaller towns, where time runs slowly. Czech republic itself is divided into West part - Bohemia and smaller East part - Moravia, that is bordering with Slovakia and culturally is closer to Slovakia than to Prague.

[Moonlight Cat]

I was going to say that I'm surprised Oz and NZ are not on the list.

NZ - this is my dream.

[Moonlight Cat]

On Israeli affiliate managers - I think the aggressive nature of these guys is due to a few factors but given that Israel is surrounded by its enemies and countries determined to wipe them out as nation and destroy their country

I know many stories when Israeli aff. managers lose good contracts for one reason -
they don't know how to talk with people from another countries.

Most of these guys don't understand culture misunderstanding between different nations. We, Russians, can use the "plural form" when we speaking to a single person. This is the form of respect. This is the normal practice if you use this form when you speak with people first time, or the people who older. If you broken this rule, it may be are serious insulting.

Most Russian-speaking Israel managers forget about this. For many of them, Russian - is native language, but i don't know, why they forgot this so quick. May be this is normal in Israel Russian speaking community, but this is abnormal for Russia. If you speak with Russian and use Russian language, you must follow this rules.

[Triple7]

@Sherlock:

Thanks.
Yep, I lived over there. That’s why about South America I can be sure it’s ok to live (with the right conditions) and about many other places not. I liked holiday in Cyprus for example, but living there is perhaps a totally different thing.

The trash everywhere was terrible. In Western Europe people also throw trash, but there whole streets were smelling to trash. So many trash, also like rotten meat in the full sun. Smelt horrible.

I never was in Brazil but I heard from friends about high prices in places like Sao Paolo. But in general, quality properties in high class areas are more expensive than people at the first sight think. The difference in price between that kind of property and a property in a “barrio” is huge.

I think that’s different for everybody. For myself, South America is much better than “luxury places”. It keeps me awake. For other people perfect places are better. I met quite a lot of expats, travelers and naïve people in South America and some people cannot handle imperfection or far from protection. The traffic jam, the Mañana mañana mentality and almost everybody being non-punctual, is something people cannot handle. For me it was fine, but not for everybody. Like other people do love New York, while don’t like it at all.

Well, Romania is the country I know best. J For me it’s a country that at least is a bit like South America. A bit. That’s why for me difference between Romania and Poland or Hungary do exist. I choosed Slovakia because of Bratislava. It’s smaller than Prague and less touristic. Which for me is ok. I was in 2 places in Czech, so my reference framework is quite small. Budojevice I did like much more than Prague, but it is a little too small. Bratislava is somewhere in the middle. But, like I said. I was on holiday there. I did not live there. So it’s difficult to say if it’s ok for me for living. Rural areas and modern citities are in EE a totally different kettle of fish. Like Bucharest or Constanta is another world if you compare it too for example Vaslui.

Although I would prefer Romania far more than Slovakia. But, like South America… with a good income. With some average income it’s ****. Supermarkets are more expensive than in Western Europe, fuel is more expensive, cars are more expensive, etc. The income tax more reasonable than in Western Europe. Big difference with some South American countries is that the middle class in EE is bigger.

[Moonlight Cat]

Looks very tasty - but as I get older I don't like big cities so much.
Asian cities are typically dirty and crowded.

Yes, but this is no problem to find small and silence island, without people. And asia have one more plus. Safety. Crime level in Thailand is much lower than in South America, USA, Western Europe or Russia.
But problem is - weather. Too match hot. And one more. Sun is always rising at 06 a.m. and sunset is always at 06:30 p.m. So, if you wake up later, day is too short...

[RacingJim]

From where I'm standing Europe is destroying itself, far away places like Aus and New Zealand are becoming very appealing to me.

[Triple7]

From where I'm standing Europe is destroying itself, far away places like Aus and New Zealand are becoming very appealing to me.

I agree with this. I'm quite sure I have to leave some day. The question is when. Things could be going faster than than many people could ever imagine.

Crime level to me doesn't say that much. Many shooting incidents are between criminal gangs for example. To me it would say more a "crime to innocent people"-rate.

[wonderpunter]

So lots of opinions.. I see Sherlock lives in Brazil.. I was there in 2005.. you know when a city twice the size of New york was shut down by bandit's and shootings galore which shows how little control this mighty Latin Country has over the majority of the poor.. I spent most of my adult life in Latin America.. South and Central.. I also speak the languages fluently and integrate with the locals so sometimes i can see a different view to most foreigners that just hitch up there, My two sons still live there today..

So most of us will judge by our personal experience or from what we have read.. From my experience.. Latin America is great.. some countries better than others.. I hated Brazil.. but Loved Colombia.. and Panama is awesome.. however for a more relaxed life.. I Choose Spain and im still relatively young.. Madrid is cheaper than most comparable Latin Capitals right now.. Buenas Aires, Sao Paulo "Though not capital still expensive" Bogota..

I spent many years hidden behind barb wire armed guards and personal pistol in the car.. living in South Am, to me.. although i felt like a king compared to the locals.. it's not great living.. back in Europe "Spain" I live a better life than i ever had stress and paranoid free..

[DanHorvat]

I love Slovenia

Again, not Eastern Europe.

Eastern Europe: A political term for countries which were liberated by the Russians and were then practically occupied by them after the war: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, Romania.

The countries in bold were even Axis allies.

So please don't use EE in context of any ex-Yugoslavia country such as Slovenia. It would be wildly incorrect to do so. We can't rewrite history.

[Triple7]

Also Belarus, Moldovia, Russia en Ukrain belong to Eastern Europe.

[DanHorvat]

Kazakhstan too, if you would include all former Soviet states, though I normally stick to the political term which describes the Soviet zone of influence in the heart of Europe - which included East Germany. The pink countries from here, but not SSSR itself.

Anyway, interested to hear what's so appealing about South America. So far I've only heard the negatives, yet a lot of people seem to have lived or live there.

[Triple7]

My opinion:

- Health care, schools, etc are good. Like I wrote before, as long as you have money. With an average, local income opinion about health care will be way different.
- There is strong cohesion between people. Family is still family there. Sunday is family day. People go to a grill restaurant with a garden, or visit some Santo-hill or to the beach.
- Outside the cities, there are beautiful places and a beautiful nature. There's really a lot to see over there. Cities do have a lot of cultural things. Next 50 years I won't get bored over there.
- Compared with here, it's much more a 24/7 economy and there's much more life. If I'm hungry, I can go to eat at night or late in the evening. Here people got irritated if you enter a restaurant at 21.30. Restaurants, clubs, casino's... they still know what service is.
- Governments are usually not so over controlled as in Europe
- People are usually friendly
- Food is usually better than here
- The mentality is more like that everybody should earn his own bones. Not so much socialism in combination with mass immigration of people that for like 70% will always depend on social systems as here.
- Women are women there, not half men like here. Also in EE women are still women.
- I like more the weather there than here
- Nightlife is much better
- They're religious, but they're taking it in a good, down-to-earth and healthy way. Not like many fanatics in Europe. It was over there that I came in contact with the church.
- Not so much tension and stress
- Not so expensive
- Not so much culture clashes over there like in Western Europe. If people call it's other gringo, negro, cholo or something like that, people are not pissed off. In Europa nowadays people are getting pissed off for really everything. People also do not bother each other that much.

But... everything with a far above average income. Many countries do not have a that big middle class. You're rich or you're poor. Living there as an European as a poor is quite hard and difficult I think. Many of the advantages will disappear then. People that are poor have no money to travel, no money to enjoy the nightlife, have to travel in overcrowded and driving like crazy microbuses, etc. etc.

That's also the main reason I am still here. As soon as I can make a far above from average income over there, I'll grab the things I need, sell the things I don't need and go over there.

And yes, Kazakhstan could be considered part of EE, although the UN doesn't (they consider Kazakhstan as Asia).

[Sherlock]

Again, not Eastern Europe.

Eastern Europe: A political term for countries which were liberated by the Russians and were then practically occupied by them after the war: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, Romania.

The countries in bold were even Axis allies.

So please don't use EE in context of any ex-Yugoslavia country such as Slovenia. It would be wildly incorrect to do so. We can't rewrite history.

I am using it because I see the similarities. Especially with Slovenia, which language and culture is very close to Czech for example. I can read Slovene texts much better than Polish. Even my avatar here on GPWA is a great Slovene guy. In Czech nobody would agree with Czech being put into one basket with Romania. I understand you do not agree with my approach, but I see what I see.

Czech republic was during WWII not ally of Axis only because they were de facto part of Germany and happy collaborants. Same as Croatia.

I am not rewriting a history, I am simply saying that the differences between Eastern European and South East European countries, approx. in the area of former Austria-Hungary, are very small. I can hardly deny my own observations from far distance.

[Sherlock]

- Health care, schools, etc are good. Like I wrote before, as long as you have money. With an average, local income opinion about health care will be way different.

Bad paramedics, which for me is a bottleneck. With broken leg or for planned surgery, it is always possible to go to 1st world, where it will be probably better and cheaper. However one can not outsource a car accident.
This is a very interesting chart. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate Yesterday I again saw dead corpse on road. Generally you can die here with 5-10x higher probability than in the 1st world. Since you are probably not used for the traffic habits, the probability is even higher. For young people the traffic accidents are the main cause of death, so this is a serious concern, much higher than criminality. The insurance for old people is EXTREMELY expensive.

- There is strong cohesion between people. Family is still family there. Sunday is family day. People go to a grill restaurant with a garden, or visit some Santo-hill or to the beach.

Yes and on Saturdays, Fridays, Free days, when there is football...

- Outside the cities, there are beautiful places and a beautiful nature. There's really a lot to see over there. Cities do have a lot of cultural things. Next 50 years I won't get bored over there.

Nature is amazing, but untouched. Which means that there are no trails for hikes with few exceptions. People here have no knowledge about neighborhood. The way how the land is inhabited is very different to whole Europe. There are no small villages in every valley, everything happens in smaller or bigger centres. It is sometimes easier to travel between 2 close towns not directly but with roundabout to big centre. The untouched nature is hard to be reached.

- Compared with here, it's much more a 24/7 economy and there's much more life. If I'm hungry, I can go to eat at night or late in the evening. Here people got irritated if you enter a restaurant at 21.30. Restaurants, clubs, casino's... they still know what service is.

Here I disagree. The I do not know what you mean by "here". But I am used for 247 services, which are accessible only in big cities like Rio, Sao, Recife or Asuncion, but they are generally more scarce. In smaller towns everything closes in the night unless there is some party. But even Rio nightlife is much more limited than to Berlin or Prague for example. Nights are taken as dangerous. I travel rather during nights there are no cars outside big cities, it is completely dead. Generally the difference between big city and rest is much bigger than in Europe. Europe is all about subsidizing the rural areas. In South America everyone can see how the areas outside of cities look like without support.

- Governments are usually not so over controlled as in Europe

Huge bureaucracy, nothing I could ever imagine and there is a lot of bureaucracy that I am used to. It is so crazy that nobody knows anything. The border check do not know always if my visa is valid and what kind of visa it is. Cartorio/notary will put a stamp on one document, but next week they will tell you it is impossible etc. Generally everything works through informal sector and bribery. It is hard to get into.

- Food is usually better than here

Food as source (fruits, vegetables, meat..) are in really high quality. Problem is cuisine, that is in low and middle class restaurants very stereotypical and with low budget one can eat better elsewhere (usually). So all is about cooking at home or good restaurants which are almost only in cities.

- The mentality is more like that everybody should earn his own bones. Not so much socialism in combination with mass immigration of people that for like 70% will always depend on social systems as here.

Yes that is interesting, since the states/governments are more socialistic, but this feeling that everybody is here on his own, is here. But many people are on social benefits as well, plus the classic model here is one old rich mother and family around her. Which is not that ideal as it seems. There are problems withing families caused by money redistributions.

- Women are women there, not half men like here. Also in EE women are still women.

EE is reaching WE at rapid pace. Women here, especially Northeast of Brazil, can be even pretty aggressive with their sexual demands. Especially when you are young white Caucasian. Or old fat Caucasian. It is pretty straightforward, 1st question usually is that if you are married. While I do not like half-men, this straightforward approach and too open, plain sexuality is not something I like.

- I like more the weather there than here

There is constant summer from Rio and north. When I see spring, autumn or winter, I travel. However the houses here are not properly built. Thin walls, **** windows. Hard to get real architect here and if yes, then it cost fortune to build a proper house. So everyone is using A/C all the time, but when temperature drops to 15 Celsius during tropical "winter" nights, it is really chilly inside.

- Nightlife is much better

Not for me. It is the same as with women and cuisine. Culture is very straightforward here. I think it is not just South America, but New world in general. I will make an example. In Europe, when someone wants to make a pub, he thinks a lot how to do it, what furniture to put there etc. Here people just go and copy something. Of course not always. But it is more like that. I see much less unique places than in Europe or Japan. South America, but also North America/Australia, is without strong genius loci. I talked about it with expats in Canada, they have the same feeling. That is something very unusual and I miss it.

- They're religious, but they're taking it in a good, down-to-earth and healthy way. Not like many fanatics in Europe. It was over there that I came in contact with the church.

Some people do, some do not. Many people are really stupid fanatics, but they are different fanatics. The church makes many people overly passive here. They pay their 10%, they go to some obscure church made from former garage and they are waiting for something to happen. That is the problem here. Waiting for God and politicians to do something. I can understand that, because the life for common folks is so much harder here. My friend now struggled with his business, they are deep in shithole. Of course they need to work hard to get out, but she is only going to church and preys. Many people have this approach.

- Not so much tension and stress

Yes, sometimes sadly. Without press nothing is done. So there are people who are waiting for their documents for years. My brother was not allowed to help dying motorbiker, because - no stress - the doctor will come...

- Not so expensive

It depends.

- Not so much culture clashes over there like in Western Europe. If people call it's other gringo, negro, cholo or something like that, people are not pissed off. In Europa nowadays people are getting pissed off for really everything. People also do not bother each other that much.

Absolutely!

But... everything with a far above average income. Many countries do not have a that big middle class. You're rich or you're poor. Living there as an European as a poor is quite hard and difficult I think. Many of the advantages will disappear then. People that are poor have no money to travel, no money to enjoy the nightlife, have to travel in overcrowded and driving like crazy microbuses, etc. etc.

Even if you are rich here, you know tomorrow you can be poor. The countries are unstable, society as well. Everyone feels that. Eike Batista story is archetypal. Even billionaire is broken, for millionaires it is pretty common.

And yes, Kazakhstan could be considered part of EE, although the UN doesn't (they consider Kazakhstan as Asia).

Kazakhstan is culturally really way off EE. Different history, language, race, no ties between other EE nations.

[Sherlock]

So lots of opinions.. I see Sherlock lives in Brazil.. I was there in 2005.. you know when a city twice the size of New york was shut down by bandit's and shootings galore which shows how little control this mighty Latin Country has over the majority of the poor.. I spent most of my adult life in Latin America.. South and Central.. I also speak the languages fluently and integrate with the locals so sometimes i can see a different view to most foreigners that just hitch up there, My two sons still live there today..

So most of us will judge by our personal experience or from what we have read.. From my experience.. Latin America is great.. some countries better than others.. I hated Brazil.. but Loved Colombia.. and Panama is awesome.. however for a more relaxed life.. I Choose Spain and im still relatively young.. Madrid is cheaper than most comparable Latin Capitals right now.. Buenas Aires, Sao Paulo "Though not capital still expensive" Bogota..

I spent many years hidden behind barb wire armed guards and personal pistol in the car.. living in South Am, to me.. although i felt like a king compared to the locals.. it's not great living.. back in Europe "Spain" I live a better life than i ever had stress and paranoid free..

I am at least partially moving to Paraguay. I already have permanent residence there. But I like my house and my cats love it here, so I do not give up on Brazil. I am happy that you said openly you hated Brazil, I hate it too 90% of time I can feel there is a difference between Brazil and other countries I briefly saw, but it is too early for conclusions.

I also think times change now with the crisis. I feel that now, with the crisis triggered by Petrobras, but caused by fall of prices of commodities and food, that Brazil exports, is the best chance Brazil gets. In one sentence: they should really move their asses and start to work. They all got gifts for free, only because they live in rich country and nobody realized here that money is not made by luck but with effort. In this way Brazil is the same as Greece or Gulf states (I hope I did not offend anyone).

Things just changed in Brazil. Even SP is cheap now, even Rio (Rio was always more expensive than Sao and with much worse services). Just look at this!

[wonderpunter]

I am at least partially moving to Paraguay. I already have permanent residence there. But I like my house and my cats love it here, so I do not give up on Brazil. I am happy that you said openly you hated Brazil, I hate it too 90% of time I can feel there is a difference between Brazil and other countries I briefly saw, but it is too early for conclusions.

I also think times change now with the crisis. I feel that now, with the crisis triggered by Petrobras, but caused by fall of prices of commodities and food, that Brazil exports, is the best chance Brazil gets. In one sentence: they should really move their asses and start to work. They all got gifts for free, only because they live in rich country and nobody realized here that money is not made by luck but with effort. In this way Brazil is the same as Greece or Gulf states (I hope I did not offend anyone).

Things just changed in Brazil. Even SP is cheap now, even Rio (Rio was always more expensive than Sao and with much worse services). Just look at this!

So now the Euro is worth double since i last lived there? Looks like things have really hit hard economy wise.. are taxes still high though?

[DanHorvat]

I am using it because I see the similarities.

Long story short, Czechs never fought and were calmly occupied for 48 years, and Yugoslavia won the war singlehandedly. Czechs were on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain, hence the term Eastern Bloc which evolved into the term Eastern Europe after the SSSR collapsed.

If you want a detailed history lesson, just ask.

The term EE may include the former SSSR countries Triple7 mentioned, but can't ever include countries which weren't in the Warsaw pact.

On the other hand, the term "Central Europe" (1, 2, 3) is mostly geographical and cultural so it's open to interpretation, while EE is strictly political as it's a synonym for Eastern Bloc. And it is therefore not open to interpretation by Sherlock or anyone else. The list of Eastern Bloc countries is definite and final.

Anyone who is regardlessly using the term EE to describe an ex-Yu country is either ignorant, or wants to insult, or is attempting to heal the wounds of his own painful legacy.

I hope this settles it.