Trying to settle on 3-4 affiliate programs to start.

[Sherlock]

In my opinion, what is unreasonable, is any demand that a US Based affiliate must have an "offshore" presence in any way in order to be paid.

Oh my god. Yes. That is 100% true. Affiliates from any country should be paid in full always and the **** as Score affiliates did should warn all. No arguing about that!

On the other side if I were affiliate almost from any country except UK, I would consider paying few hundreds/year for offshore company, only for the very reason that you do not know what the affiliate programmes or governments will do in future. (Not to mention the benefits about privacy and lower taxes) It is simple and elegant solution. It should not be "must have" solution. It is an option that saves time, nerves and money.

What I understood about US law is that if you are under revenue share, you are not just some advertisement partner, you are something more like casino operator partner and therefore you should have licence as well. Bet365 lawyers are always very active. Maybe this can be the reason behind their reluctance. I really hope this will not spread from USA like other ugly digital nonsenses.

[Sherlock]

I want to clarify that the company I was talking about was not bet365. I looked through emails and it was not bet365.

nice one

[universal4]

I want to clarify that the company I was talking about was not bet365. I looked through emails and it was not bet365.

I kinda thought so.

To make sure to clarify, for those that have decent traffic, or those that are sure they can get the required number of players, in most cases Bet365 is a program to certainly look at for Playtech games. Personally, on my sites I have always been able to sell other Playtech's much better, but this is why testing is so important.

Rick
Universal4

[indepthstats]

Interesting, did you get notified of this in writing??

Rick
Universal4

This is the response I received to my inquiry asking why my application had not been approved. I should note they only said they are no longer accepting US affiliates, not that they were closing existing accounts. I'm guessing it's more of a "this headache isn't worth it" thing as opposed to a true legal change. That's why I was asking if I might be able to get an account activated through an account manager here.

The email:

Hi,

Thank you for your email.

I have reviewed your account and I can confirm that your account has not been approved.

The reason for the decline is due to you residing in the USA.

As it stands we are currently unable to accept any new affiliates residing in the USA.

Should this change in the future, please do not hesitate to contact back.

Kind regards,
Lyndsay


Lyndsay Majer
Marketing System Administrator
bet365.com

[indepthstats]

If bet365 can not pay you, just dedicate some effort and make a company offshore ONLY for them. But for tax optimalisation it is worth for other programmes as well. I think there is no need to clarify why Bet365 is no brainer.

Except that I suggest 5dimes, not only because they 100% respect deals, but because they are known to offer even smaller tennis events (****** limits like 100usd though).

Then another no brainer is Betfair, because the tennis market, especially live betting, is Betfair.

Well and another good shop is Pinnacle, because one year back they came with minor tennis as well and they are accepted almost worldwide (non US, ES, NL, TR, FR).

For the rest try Unibet, they are good auxiliary bookie and affiliate, and they operate in Italy and France, esp. if you have such traffic.

Tipico is good for German speaking countries, nothing specialfor tennis; same for Sportinteraction and Canada, their affiliate manager is top notch guy though.

Hodgeyboy@coral is very good guy as well, if they fix the live odds banners, it will be a very nice creative for tennis.

I suggest 1st look at your traffic and then choose the auxiliary bookies.

Thanks for the detailed response Sherlock. I'm not sure exactly what it takes to setup a company outside the US. Or if that would raise more issues than it would settle if the site started bringing in some real money. I'll certainly look into it, but I'm guessing it is not the best option until the site is pulling down some real traffic.

I'll definitely look into betfair, Unibet, Tipico and Coral. I do expect a decent amount of non-us traffic; which is why I was so excited about bet365 to begin with.

I had some bad experiences with 5dimes as a player, but I may just suck it up and apply there as well. Pinnacle also seems to improved a lot since I had an account with them many years ago, so that might be a good option as well.

Anyways, thanks so much for the detailed help.

[sweetbet]

I would have no probs recommending Betting Partners. It's a very solid, reliable and well converting affiliate program.

[indepthstats]

Pinnacle also does not accept US affiliates at this time either. Just FYI.

[casinoSasa]

Hi,

I have shortlisted top 5 programs for casino, betting and poker traffic:

TOP 5 betting affiliate programs:
Bet365
ComeOn
888
Betfair
Betting Partners

TOP 5 casino affiliate programs:
Bet365
ComeOn
Betfair
Video Slots
Deckmedia

TOP 5 poker affiliate programs:
888
Bet365
Party
Paddy Power
Betting Partners

Cheers

[universal4]

The problem is, if they are no longer accepting NEW US affiliates, it may only be a matter of time.

Rick
Universal4

[indepthstats]

It's definitely getting frustrating that everyone seems to think bet365 is the best all around program, and we can't get in at this point.

Is there a representative for them who's active on the gpwa boards?

I think I might be able to make a good case for allowing us into the program if they still have the ability to pay US Affiliates. Of course if they plan to discontinue paying US sites then it would be a moot point.

[peleus]

I just have this hunch that they are making massive changes soon. We can only wait though.

[indepthstats]

I just have this hunch that they are making massive changes soon. We can only wait though.

Yeah, I don't want to speculate, but it seems like this isn't simply a temporary freeze on new affiliates. I was finally able to make contact with the affiliate representative here and all he would do was reiterate that they weren't accepting new affiliates.

I tried to get him to elaborate by asking if they were still successfully working with existing US affiliates. And if that was the case, if I could purchase someone's existing affiliate account to get into the program, but I have not received a response yet.

I've also noticed that a number of other major sportsbook programs also (or already) won't take US affiliates. I was pretty surprised by this.

[TheGooner]

I've also noticed that a number of other major sportsbook programs also (or already) won't take US affiliates. I was pretty surprised by this.

Why are you surprised about this?

One look at Federal US policy on sports betting across state lines, combined with the UIGEA laws, and the US Governments willingness to actually arrest foreign gaming company executives when travelling on US soil should explain why the stance has been taken.

For things to change for US affiliates - they need to change within the US. The US Government needs to live up to it's "Land of the Free" ideals by rejecting parochial lobby groups and opening up the gaming market to free trade.

Until then you will see the big legally licensed European operators steering clear of any US interaction for fear of some sort of illogical enforcement of laws and statutes enacted in the 1950s.

[feelthenoize]

Why are you surprised about this?

One look at Federal US policy on sports betting across state lines, combined with the UIGEA laws, and the US Governments willingness to actually arrest foreign gaming company executives when travelling on US soil should explain why the stance has been taken.

For things to change for US affiliates - they need to change within the US. The US Government needs to live up to it's "Land of the Free" ideals by rejecting parochial lobby groups and opening up the gaming market to free trade.

Until then you will see the big legally licensed European operators steering clear of any US interaction for fear of some sort of illogical enforcement of laws and statutes enacted in the 1950s.

Well said Gooner. I am not surprised either. It seems like it is not worth taking the chance as there can be major consequences including being arrested when in the United States. As far as the United States being the "land of the free" well it sure doesn't feel like it sometimes especially when it comes on online gambling. Hopefully soon it won't be that way.

[indepthstats]

Why are you surprised about this?

One look at Federal US policy on sports betting across state lines, combined with the UIGEA laws, and the US Governments willingness to actually arrest foreign gaming company executives when travelling on US soil should explain why the stance has been taken.

For things to change for US affiliates - they need to change within the US. The US Government needs to live up to it's "Land of the Free" ideals by rejecting parochial lobby groups and opening up the gaming market to free trade.

Until then you will see the big legally licensed European operators steering clear of any US interaction for fear of some sort of illogical enforcement of laws and statutes enacted in the 1950s.

Actually, i'm pretty sure the UIGEA only sanctions accepting funds from the US as related to gaming operations. I see no reason PAYING an affiliate living in the US for promoting the program to site visitors in countries THEY DO ACCEPT would be an issue.

The only issue I see from a legal standpoint would actually be a violation of promoting gambling in a certain jurisdiction or state where it is outlawed. But that would mean that a site based in the US could never join ANY affiliate program or really even accept any advertising income from advertisements for gaming sites at all.

And no one here seems to agree with that.

[TheGooner]

You're very confident about that opinion - far more confident than any lawyer is - I suspect that your (over) confidence is borne from being new to the environment.

Given the issues around rev-share / CPA deals potentially being sharing in proceeds of gambling we have seen some major affiliate sites move to "fixed-fee" only advertising deals in order to minimise this potential issue and be clearly advertising only ... I seem to recall discussion on this site (GPWA) ... and thought this site that has done just that.

The REAL facts are that licensed operators in Europe are becoming increasingly nervous about sending money relating to gambling activity into the US. US players are banned, and now US affiliates are feeling the pinch. These programs are not deciding to close down what is a lucrative market area on a whim. There is real concern.

As individual US states have begun licensing intra-state gambling, the US licensed operators have become more antagonistic towards offshore gambling operators and have begun threatening legal action against what they see as unlawful advertising. Several affiliates that list both US licensed and offshore licensed operators have received cease and desist letters in the last 2-3 months.

That has created an unwanted raised profile for major European operators who are publicly listed, or who have easily identifiable executives. They moving to minimise their exposure and move potential liability.

There is still a whole bunch of smaller caribbean based operations that will take US players, and accept US affiliates. They are effectively trying to "fly under the radar" and are using jurisdictions that have few guidelines and very little enforcement to operate as they see fit. I do not think that these operations think it is legal - they simply will stay small, privately owned, anonymous groups.

[indepthstats]

You're very confident about that opinion - far more confident than any lawyer is - I suspect that your (over) confidence is borne from being new to the environment.

Given the issues around rev-share / CPA deals potentially being sharing in proceeds of gambling we have seen some major affiliate sites move to "fixed-fee" only advertising deals in order to minimise this potential issue and be clearly advertising only ... I seem to recall discussion on this site (GPWA) ... and thought this site that has done just that.

The REAL facts are that licensed operators in Europe are becoming increasingly nervous about sending money relating to gambling activity into the US. US players are banned, and now US affiliates are feeling the pinch. These programs are not deciding to close down what is a lucrative market area on a whim. There is real concern.

As individual US states have begun licensing intra-state gambling, the US licensed operators have become more antagonistic towards offshore gambling operators and have begun threatening legal action against what they see as unlawful advertising. Several affiliates that list both US licensed and offshore licensed operators have received cease and desist letters in the last 2-3 months.

That has created an unwanted raised profile for major European operators who are publicly listed, or who have easily identifiable executives. They moving to minimise their exposure and move potential liability.

There is still a whole bunch of smaller caribbean based operations that will take US players, and accept US affiliates. They are effectively trying to "fly under the radar" and are using jurisdictions that have few guidelines and very little enforcement to operate as they see fit. I do not think that these operations think it is legal - they simply will stay small, privately owned, anonymous groups.

Very well written response. I actually wasn't confident at all, but based on the response I got in the thread asking this exact question here https://www.gpwa.org/forum/us-based-...es-218389.html and a few private messages, I felt most people here considered being an affiliate/advertiser for legal gambling portals to be legal, or at least not explicitly illegal, in the US.

I have a lot of experience dealing with this as a player, going all the way back to the shutdown of Party Poker / Full Tilt and the Neteller seizures. I have literally zero experience as an affiliate. But I have read a lot about the UIGEA. I was simply stating that it did not seem to specifically restrict paying affiliates who were NOT promoting the sites to US players in any way.

So, just to summarize. It is your belief, I'm guessing from some experience, that many European/UK affiliate programs will likely stop allowing US based affiliates, period? I'm not passing judgement on that statement one way or another, but I do think many here on the gpwa boards would be surprised if that suddenly happened.

And obviously I'm more trying to come up with a plan of action for what I should be doing with our potential UK/European traffic. So any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[TheGooner]

And obviously I'm more trying to come up with a plan of action for what I should be doing with our potential UK/European traffic. So any suggestions would be much appreciated.

I understand what you are saying - it is a tricky area - mostly because the legal area is (deliberately?) murky and there have been some quite significant actions in the past that surprised people.

So, just to summarize. It is your belief, I'm guessing from some experience, that many European/UK affiliate programs will likely stop allowing US based affiliates, period? I'm not passing judgement on that statement one way or another, but I do think many here on the gpwa boards would be surprised if that suddenly happened.

Yes - I expect that the big European license holders will CONTINUE to try very hard to fit in with various legal rules in order to stay legitimate. They make significant legal profits and it makes no sense to thumb your nose at any countries rulings when you are making 100m - 300m a year.

It's not just the US market - in European markets like Belgium, France, Netherlands, Italy, Turkey they are being re-regulated for local licenses and operators are stopping access to players until they obtain the correct local licenses. If a version of UIGEA was passed there then I would expect affiliates from those countries to be in trouble too.

Ladbrokes and Bet365 are significant in the UK market (market leaders?), and they are not staying out of restricted markets without due cause. I imagine they've gone to significant expense to obtain high powered legal opinions. I'd back the Operators decisions as a far better indicator of future events than a GPWA forum post .... UNLESS there is significant new information in those posts as to new law changes or confirmed statements of new direction.

Given the absence of new information - then Ladbrokes and Bet365 actions are the best lead that we have.

[indepthstats]

Can't argue with any of that. Sad to hear though.

It's funny because my original thought was to sell my European traffic (down the line when its quite significant) to someone on a monthly or cost per click basis who was located in the correct jurisdiction to legally collect income on gambling promotion in said jurisdiction. And let them collect the rev share on the signups.

I may be going back to explore that original line of thinking here pretty soon. It would be nice to have the long term income from the accounts myself, but if someone would be willing to give me a fair price for the traffic it would probably make more sense for a US site to have the guaranteed income and avoid legal issues.

[grem]

You should geo target your traffic and do a good job of making sure your non US traffic is sent to brands that don't focus on US markets. That means working with programs like Coral, Bet365, Betvictor and etc