Turning to the darkside

[Puma]

Last week as I am sure many of you read, I called out a few affiliates for promoting the Grand Prive group. Knowing what they had done to affiliates in the past my statement still stands. However as I grow a little more experienced in this business I have come to learn a few things.

First off the promotion of only trusted casinos as I have tried to do doesn't do **** for my wallet. In fact most players already have accounts at the great casinos. Of course for a person like myself who has only one site that is only a year old it doesn't help.

Last week my puppy got sick and in order to come up with the money I was willing to sell my site ( sites ) to get him fixed up at the vet. That is how bad my business is going at the moment. Am I looking for sympathy? Not at all. This does however pose a few questions.

Is my SEO that bad that I have not had a hit from a major search engine in about a month? Does writing my own reviews and not copying anybody else work not appeal to google or yahoo? Can an affiliate with a low budget make it in this business? Does sticking to the promotion of only trusted casinos have a place in this industry?

What really gets me is the big sites who promote anybody they feel like regardless of how it will affect the customer are doing great. If their puppy got sick they would just go to the bank and then issue would be solved.

Maybe I should turn to the dark side. Maybe I should just promote any program that will pay me at the end of the month.

Maybe, just maybe its about the wallet and not the players. All I know is I have to change the way I look at promoting because the "good guys" alone are not doing it for me.

[ddm]

Maybe I should turn to the dark side. Maybe I should just promote any program that will pay me at the end of the month.

Maybe, just maybe its about the wallet and not the players. All I know is I have to change the way I look at promoting because the "good guys" alone are not doing it for me.

Money doesn't care where it comes from...

[Smoking]

It spends the same also

[greedygirl]

Money doesn't care where it comes from...

Money doesn't care where it comes from...

Yes, and karma is a bitch.

Pumacat--hang in there and continue to do the right thing. It will all come around for you, I'm sure.

[tg12345]

Maybe I should just promote any program that will pay me at the end of the month.

Ding!

[felku]

I kinda think how you feel. I really have a very low budget I feel like I'm struggling in this business. I'm not very experience in this business but I have a lot of experience in real life. Two years ago I a had a good business with plenty of money and I did everything good. Right now I'm nearly broke and a family that depend on me. The only advice I can give you is do what you thinks is the right choice for your pocket.

[Dominique]

Of course for a person like myself who has only one site that is only a year old it doesn't help.

Can an affiliate with a low budget make it in this business? Does sticking to the promotion of only trusted casinos have a place in this industry?

I started out with $200/mo to spend on my one site. This money came out of pocket for almost a year. Once I started to make some money, it all went back into the site. Some 10 years later, I still plough most of the money back into the site.

The advantage of having a site that operates totally ethical is that players will notice in time. Players aren't stupid. I survived 3 years in google hell (under penalty) with ease because players support the site by returning and telling their friends. I was able to do without google.

Show me a site that doesn't care what happens to it's customers that can survive that.

Originally Posted by pumacat
Maybe I should just promote any program that will pay me at the end of the month.

There is no telling. Grand Prive paid me for some 6 years before they took $30,000 of my monies due for themselves. Would you trust a program that paid faithfully for 6 years? I did. Look what happened.

It's about the players AND the wallet. And about patience and sticking to it. If you can't depend on your site(s) for income yet, don't. Turn it into a secondary income, and keep on trucking. Watch the programs carefully, if they screw others, it's just a matter of time til they screw you.

The mistake I see affiliates make most often: They make contact with a super nice, helpful aff manager who works for a program that has screwed many before. But, because of the great personal relationship and initial good pay and support, the affiliate believes firmly that s/he is immune and different from the rest. These affiliates always either disappear pennyless into the shadows, or they come wailing and whining to the forums.

You can get screwed even with all precautions taken, but if you promote shoddy places, you will definitely get screwed eventually.

Or, as greedygirl puts it: Karma is a bitch.

[cass]

Pumacat don't sell your site just to regret it later. I feel the industry might have hit the skids for the time being but it will pick up again. I know its very difficult to survive in an industry that has very little moral values and you have.

We made a decision a couple of years ago not to work with unethical programs and I can honestly say we're beginning to see the fruits of our labour now. It's pointless "selling your soul to the devil" just to gain a couple of bucks in the short term but forfeit thousands in the long run in an ethical way. I know desperation can be a bugger at best of times.

My advise to you is to seek out reputable programs and ask them for a monthly flat fee plus revenue share (maybe you are doing it). I'm sure with all your knowledge most programs won't have a problem with this.

I wish you well.

Internet casinos

[Topboss]

Pumacat I can understand where you are coming from and I guess if my puppy was at the vet - I would do whatever it takes to get the money to make the pup better...but then again I am besotted with animals so will do almost anything to avoid them suffering.

However, under normal circumstances i.e when you don't need money for an emergency I believe that the honest way always prevails in the end.
it is very difficult to maintain a good reputation and continue to be honest in this industry when many casinos, scammers, hackers etc are trying to screw you, but at the end of the day - I firmly believe that honesty and integrity always comes out on top.

When my hubby and myself joined this industry 10 years or so ago, we said from the outset that we would always be honest and will never indulge in dishonest dealings of any kind, and whilst we aren't multi millionaires ....but probably could have been had we turned to dicey dealings - we are still around after all these years and can sleep at nights. We even declare all our earnings to the tax man!!

Granted, we have made mistakes in the past and promoted programs that we thought were reputable and turned out to be sharks, but as soon as we realized they were robbing players, they came down.

I still believe there really is some reputable casino programs out there and it is just a matter of sifting through them until you have a handful of good ones. I rely on gut feel quite a bit, and it actually works for me 9 times out of 10.

[giggles7p]

Puma, how is your puppy?.....I hope he/she is ok?

pat

[baldidiot]

Sorry to hear things aren't great, mate. I'm sure we've all had times when we've just felt like jacking it all in, but if you hang in there it'll get better. I strongly believe the ethical route is the best way to go - as the others have said, you want your site to be a resource for players and that isn't going to happen if they get ripped off after following your reccomendations.

Is affiliate marketing your full time job? If so it might be an idea to get a regular job for a while (even as a temp) and work on your sites on the side -that way you'll remove the financial stress. Alternatively, what about offering services to other affiliates to supplement your income? Eg: writing reviews or articles, or whatever. There are plenty of people on PAL etc.. who write full time.

[Random idea: You know what I would pay for - social bookmarking from an established account on sites like reddit or digg. I don't mean SEO accounts that just submit a ton of links, I mean accounts that are heavily involved and interact with the community having high link karma (reddit) and real followers etc...]

As for the site - there's a lot of competition out there and it can be hard to get a site going. In terms of SEO, why not pick a super-micro niche with low competition (that has some traffic, obviously) and make a page on your site for it - there are tons out there. Be the best source of information possible so people want to link to you and get spend some effort to get that page high in the serps. I'd take 10 highly targeted visitors over 100 randoms any day and most of my RMP's come from SE traffic to pages just like this. Besides, going after something like "casino reviews" is going to take a lot of time and money.

I'm starting to think that for new affiliates a CPA deal may be the way to go, the money can be reinvested in the business and could help motivate you. You could then wean yourself onto rev share once your sites are established. I went the rev share route and it's just now (after a year) starting to perform better than a CPA would have done (maybe).

[davemerry]

Keep plugging away at it mate, I held down a full time job and invested nearly every penny and evenings into sites which never took off, SEVEN of them in a row in-fact. None of which made me any notable money.

I was down to my last straw and only had a few hundred pounds left before I was going to hang my boots up, I invested it carefully and that few hundred pounds has turned into an affiliate company which has over 60 sites in 2 years.

Keep working and keep focusing on the good guys and eventually it will pay off.

PS. If you ever need SEO advice shoot me a PM, happy to look through your site and give you an audit.

[tg12345]

In general, I'm surprised at the ethical debates on this forum. As a former problem gambler (ironic that gambling now pays the bills), I basically feel gambling is unethical at its core, so whether or not a site makes players jump through 50 hoops to make a cashout, or finds some loophole to not pay at all doesn't concern me. Online casinos are just a "stupid tax", and as long as I'm getting my fair share I don't really care.

So, Pumacat, do what you need to do to take care of the puppy. I buy non-USA facing rev-share aff accounts if you're interested...better than selling the whole site. PM me if you like.

[DaftDog]

In general, I'm surprised at the ethical debates on this forum. As a former problem gambler (ironic that gambling now pays the bills), I basically feel gambling is unethical at its core, so whether or not a site makes players jump through 50 hoops to make a cashout, or finds some loophole to not pay at all doesn't concern me. Online casinos are just a "stupid tax", and as long as I'm getting my fair share I don't really care.

So, Pumacat, do what you need to do to take care of the puppy. I buy non-USA facing rev-share aff accounts if you're interested...better than selling the whole site. PM me if you like.

LOL - and you want Pumacat to trust you after what you just wrote? If you want people to trust you, you have to behave in a trustworthy way. There is no short cut to building a good reputation for your site. The old saying "Birds of a feather flock together." springs to mind. Do you want to be scrounging vulture or a soaring eagle.

edit: Yes, it does matter how you acquire your money.

[tg12345]

Whatever dude. Just trying to help out. Me and my unethical bad-reputation 6-figure monthly site will slink back into the shadows. Dick.

[Dominique]

In general, I'm surprised at the ethical debates on this forum. As a former problem gambler (ironic that gambling now pays the bills), I basically feel gambling is unethical at its core, so whether or not a site makes players jump through 50 hoops to make a cashout, or finds some loophole to not pay at all doesn't concern me. Online casinos are just a "stupid tax", and as long as I'm getting my fair share I don't really care.

So, Pumacat, do what you need to do to take care of the puppy. I buy non-USA facing rev-share aff accounts if you're interested...better than selling the whole site. PM me if you like.

Wow! A problem gambler who has no qualms sending players to shoddy casinos!

[tg12345]

Wow! A problem gambler who has no qualms sending players to shoddy casinos!

Former. Seriously though, gambling is stupid, so why do you care? Each and every one of us is unethical. We market these online casinos under the auspice of possibly getting rich, and we know the likelihood of that happening. We push the online equivalent of crack/cigarettes/booze. We're drug dealers. You think it's more ethical to find the best, most reputable drugs, just so that they can sustain their habit a little longer? I'll push every single site under the sun, provided they pay me. I make no claims regarding any site. Buyer/user beware, in my opinion. Handholding your players is more damaging long-term...you're sticking the needle in their arm. I sleep well at night. You can tell yourself you're behaving "ethically" if that's what you need to do...

Next person who decides to reply to me, please put some thought/effort into it...I'm tired of the juvenile banter and won't engage in it any longer. Thanks in advance.

[Dominique]

You are ridiculous! The vast majority of people who gamble use it as a past time and hobby, and it is kept within a budget and often preferable to going out and spending money on expensive dinners or going to movies etc etc.

You are projecting your personality (and you admit to being flawed with a previous addiction) onto everyone. That is just not how the majority is, players are not at all stupid.

Gambling is only addictive to a very small minority, the percentage of people who become alcoholics after drinking alcohol is considerably larger that the percentage of people becoming addicted to gambling.

Get a reality check.

And try to do something about that toxic attitude of yours.

[tg12345]

You are ridiculous! The vast majority of people who gamble use it as a past time and hobby, and it is kept within a budget and often preferable to going out and spending money on expensive dinners or going to movies etc etc.

You are projecting your personality (and you admit to being flawed with a previous addiction) onto everyone. That is just not how the majority is, players are not at all stupid.

Gambling is only addictive to a very small minority, the percentage of people who become alcoholics after drinking alcohol is considerably larger that the percentage of people becoming addicted to gambling.

Get a reality check.

And try to do something about that toxic attitude of yours.

I respectfully disagree with you. The "vast majority" that you refer to lie to themselves and to others about their gambling. You say that "Gambling is only addictive to a very small minority". Do you even understand what is addictive about gambling? Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement

In particular:

• Variable ratio schedule (VR) – a reinforcement schedule in which the number of responses necessary to produce reinforcement varies from trial to trial
  
  • Lab example: VR4" = first pellet delivered on 2 bar presses, second pellet delivered on 6 bar presses, third pellet 4 bar presses (2 + 6 + 4 = 3 / 12 = 25% chance of receiving pellet)
  • Real-world example: slot machines (because, though the probability of hitting the jackpot is constant, the number of lever presses needed to hit the jackpot is variable)

Attachment 2145

Look at the line representing the VR schedule on the attached graph. That's all slot machines are; a VR2" (plus the house edge) machine where inserting a $ is the response and receiving a $ is the reinforcement. We reduce people to pigeons...

Now, Dominique, while I appreciate the fact that you took a little more time with this post, I don't appreciate being told that I am ridiculous, or that I need to get a reality check, or that my attitude is toxic. Please try to refrain from personal insults, as I don't believe I've attacked you personally.

[Dominique]

Well, I enjoy some time playing slots, I find it relaxing. I guess that makes me a pigeon.