Wager Profits pulls the plug on CAP and PAP

**Chips** · 5 March 2009, 4:09 pm

I just saw the following post over at CAP. No doubt it will be deleted in a short time... I am impressed with the fact that Wager Profits took stepped up and made it clear to the mgmt at those forums that they would not stand for all the underhanded dealings and public laundry.

Here are the (temporary) url's:

http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/bb/wager-profits-removes-cap-and-pap-seals.34735.html?

http://www.pokeraffiliateprograms.com/forums/wager-profits/21302-wager-profits-removes-pap-cap-seals.html

Wager Profits Removes CAP and PAP Seals
Following recent events at CAP London and the issues that arose at that event, further amplified by the emails from Lou Fabiano along with the public statement from Warren Jolly, it is clear that currently CAP and PAP is in no state to effectively provide the services needed by the Affiliate community and operators. Its management seems to have put itself in a position of clear conflict of interest, which is detrimental to its clients and to the industry.

As a result of these facts and until these issues are resolved, Wager Profits (www.wagerprofits.com) has made a decision to remove the CAP and PAP seals from its Affiliate program, and to terminate its relationship with CAP and PAP for the foreseeable future.

Shaun O’Neil – Affiliate Director of WagerProfits – commented:

“CAP and PAP have great affiliate communities, which have been a pleasure to work with, so this was a difficult decision to make. Unfortunately, we believe it is questionable to think that CAP and PAP will be able to operate effectively without a management team that has proven integrity, and until this rift is dealt with and all the facts are known.

Perhaps what the industry needs is an independent non-profit organization providing certification and related services, along the lines that Microgaming spearheaded with Ecogra for Operations Certification, i.e. an organization funded by the operators with common pricing and clear rules and a code of conduct. We would certainly be interested in participating or being in the forefront of such an initiative.”
__________________
Shaun O'Neill
Director of Affiliate Marketing
www.wagerprofits.com
Skype Id: oneillshaun
Msn: shaunoneill25@hotmail.com

**mojo** · 5 March 2009, 4:29 pm

Thanks for grabbing that Chips. We all know what happens to posts like this at CAP.

Kudos to Shaun and Wager Profits for stepping up on what will not be tolerated.

**TheCPA** · 5 March 2009, 5:32 pm

A courageous decision to be admired, IMO.

Vote with your feet friends. It's the RIGHT THING to do, IMO!

I hope many others have this same courage and commitment to Industry Ethics to turn their backs on people that use, abuse, and try to build personal wealth on the BACKS OF AFFILIATES, and the AFFILIATE PROGRAMS!

This needs to never happen again!!

**thepokerkeep** · 5 March 2009, 5:58 pm

Hey Shaun,
Thanks for taking a leadership role in the industry. I hope that your decision will be closely followed by many of your peers.

**wagerprofits** · 5 March 2009, 6:17 pm

Hi Guys

I just wanted to say thank you for your comments and support, i dont really have a huge amount to say as i think that my PR covers it all.

Thanks

Shaun

**Nandakishore** · 5 March 2009, 6:27 pm

Shaun's idea about 'an independent non-profit organization providing certification and related services' is really interesting, but it may be difficult to implement such a thing. But I hope to have some good discussion on it.

In any case, congrats to WagerProfits for taking a bold step in making it clear to CAP that only some superficial 'cosmetic surgeries' will not save them.

**mojo** · 5 March 2009, 8:49 pm

I see the thread is still there.

I also see this one:

http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...on.34747.html?

Please! Cap! Do not try to 'certify' or 'audit' anything else. With all due respect, that window is closed! It only hurts us further. It is not 'business as usual'.

Sorry to be so harsh. Cap needs to be gutted and rebuilt if possible. From the ground up. This mess will not just go away.

**pgaming** · 5 March 2009, 9:03 pm

Now that's taking a stand WTG Shaun

!

greek39

**wagerprofits** · 6 March 2009, 1:05 am

Mojo

I wonder if anybody at CAP would consider asking me!!!!

The funny thing is nobody from CAP ever contacted me once Warren made his statement, the only person that I spoke to was Lou which was really weird as prior to the emails from Lou and the Warren statement I had never ever spoken to him I had tried to but he never replied to my skype.

Anyway time to move on.

Shaun

Originally Posted by mojo

I see the thread is still there.

I also see this one:

http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...on.34747.html?

Please! Cap! Do not try to 'certify' or 'audit' anything else. With all due respect, that window is closed! It only hurts us further. It is not 'business as usual'.

Sorry to be so harsh. Cap needs to be gutted and rebuilt if possible. From the ground up. This mess will not just go away.

**Jinnia** · 6 March 2009, 7:08 am

If this goes forward (an independent non-profit organization for cerifications), I
hope it won't be another SafeBet.

Setup clear rules and a code of conduct AND stay true to them!!

**Nandakishore** · 6 March 2009, 6:16 pm

I have serious doubts that it is possible to create an independent non-profit organization for cerifications

**wagerprofits** · 6 March 2009, 6:28 pm

Nandakishore

A number of options will be looked it, it might not end up being something like seal or cerifications it might jut be something simple like a code of conduct....

Shaun

Originally Posted by Nandakishore

I have serious doubts that it is possible to create an independent non-profit organization for cerifications

**casinobonusguy** · 6 March 2009, 9:37 pm

Shaun ,
I think if you have basic common sense rules for members like NO NEGATIVE CARRY OVERS ,no blackmailing affiliates for higher positions on sites and They must have good credit with affiliates as in PAY THEIR BILLS MONTHLY then you will have most of the affiliate concerns addressed.
Some of us go crazy over spam but show me a program who dont spam and ill show you some prime swamp land in florida

**matted** · 6 March 2009, 10:24 pm

Shaun - wanted to give you a big thumbs up for taking a stand. This industry has enough problems when it comes to reputation... your actions send a message that ethics are import in the gambling business.

**Tony** · 6 March 2009, 10:54 pm

The only way to make something like independent non-profit organization for certifications is if the little guy pays for, that’s you and I, just like FDA the taxpayer pay for not the companies, who in his right mine (CAP, PAP,GPWA……) is going to speak out about an advertiser “you don’t bite the hand that feeds you” but I also know if you put your finger in the honey your more likely to lick it.
So if someone wants to start a site with no program banners or fees, just like the Consumer product certification agency I’m in, right now if I would like to find out about a program believe me I don’t check this site or any of the above

**wagerprofits** · 7 March 2009, 12:09 am

Casinobonusguy what you are saying is a code of conduct which I agree in 100%....

Shaun

Originally Posted by casinobonusguy

Shaun ,
I think if you have basic common sense rules for members like NO NEGATIVE CARRY OVERS ,no blackmailing affiliates for higher positions on sites and They must have good credit with affiliates as in PAY THEIR BILLS MONTHLY then you will have most of the affiliate concerns addressed.
Some of us go crazy over spam but show me a program who dont spam and ill show you some prime swamp land in florida

**wagerprofits** · 7 March 2009, 5:45 am

Matted

Thank you for you rkind words they really mean a lot to me.

To date I have only had one opertaor email me to say that he is happy with what I am doing, either the others are happy or object but they do not want to say anything.

Shaun

Originally Posted by matted

Shaun - wanted to give you a big thumbs up for taking a stand. This industry has enough problems when it comes to reputation... your actions send a message that ethics are import in the gambling business.

**Chips** · 7 March 2009, 9:46 am

It is a shame that other programs don't have the foresight or testicular fortitude to see that the money they are pouring into the "certification" would be better used to wash windows with.

It is almost like they are afraid that it will kill their business if they do not support a rogue affiliate forum/website. Not even another operator has the guts to make a post in this thread and we all know there are some that have looked, even if just in curiosity.

Step up to the plate guys (and gals)! Quit wasting your money and add the saved funds for player and affiliate promotions, that will get more bang for your buck over having a seal no one really gives a rip about and hanging a banner in a rotator.

**casinojack** · 7 March 2009, 10:39 am

Shaun,

As an operator myself, but a new guy, I respect your decision. However, I never spent a penny at Cap, as we have been focused on sportbook last 4 years, not casino. Now that we adding casino, we were in talks with them about advertising, then the implosion. Personally, 100% business opinion of mine is, unless it changed owners hands, They won't get a penny from me. Good luck to you man.

**wagerprofits** · 7 March 2009, 11:45 am

Casinojack

Check you PM...

Shaun

Originally Posted by casinojack

Shaun,

As an operator myself, but a new guy, I respect your decision. However, I never spent a penny at Cap, as we have been focused on sportbook last 4 years, not casino. Now that we adding casino, we were in talks with them about advertising, then the implosion. Personally, 100% business opinion of mine is, unless it changed owners hands, They won't get a penny from me. Good luck to you man.

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