What other programs are run by EM

[NLP-GOD]

If it's a fact that EM runs CSpike and Aslots, WHO ELSE is a client of EM? Seems no one wants to be tough on A-Slots because they are on the up and up with payments, etc. But ask yourself the same thing everyone asks about Cspike. Why the secrecy? Even if you're good, it's a secret. How many other secrets are out there? I personally see a big problem with both of these companies doing business in a non-transparent way. Regardless if one is paying and one is not.

I think all programs that have a relationship with EM should come forward and tell us about it right now if they exist. Limit the damage to your company and the affiliate community at large. Please don't hide or keep secrets any longer from your partners and the community. It's like having an extra card when playing poker. It's cheating - plain and simple.

Everyone is down on Lou, which is normal - he allowed this to happen, but you know, the programs are willing participants. They knew what they were doing. Lou was being greedy, the affiliate programs associated with EM are being just as devious, if not more. They provided a way for Lou to do this by being willing conspirators.

Many ask why the programs don't speak out against CAP. Or why they still pay the fees to remain listed there - what if a large portion of them are associated with or are run by the EM/CAP operators? That would answer a lot of questions.

I am trying to find another logical excuse, but I can't come up with one. I mean, the obvious one is no excuse - that they are more concerned with making every penny they can than protecting our industry from the scum that may tarnish it beyond hope.

Come clean if you contracted with EM which then in turn used CAP as a tool, because that tool clearly included a forum at CAP and dupping affiliates into promoting your program in an unfair way. The only way to fix the problem is to come clean.

The officers of EM ran CAP (the affiliate community) - The conflict of interest has been shown, the evidence is in and the facts are obvious. Now its time for the operators who used this tool to come clean.

[Caruso]

Seems no one wants to be tough on A-Slots because they are on the up and up with payments, etc.

Do you think so? I had certainly wondered why the Absolute Slots matter had gone all quiet, and I must say that it hadn't occured to me that the reasons might involve double standards at work. I hope not, but now I'm wondering.

Hopefully this will be looked at with the same vigour as Cardspike. After all, it's not about the money, but the principle, and as such deserves the same treatment.

[mojo]

WHO ELSE is a client of EM?

Thank you for asking this question. I am dependant upon this industry for my living like many others.

I have seen questions like, what does it matter? Well, it matters. It is only fair that a large affiliate forum that accepts money from other affiliate programs and proposes to have affilaites best interest at heart COMES CLEAN.

I have also heard there is nothing wrong with that and that is true. CAP can run any dam aff program they want, I personally could care less. But to lie and deceive and HIDE it is inexcusable.

There is another forum, abest - or something like that- that runs diversified affiliate programs. Such as clothing, cc's, household goods and basically anthing you could imagine. They have IN HOUSE programs. There is no problem with that. It's in it's own section of the forum.

Why the LIES? It is infuriating. We need to know EXACTLY which programs are run by effective media. It really is NOT to much to ask. If there are legal issues then CAP owners should not have gotten into it in the FIRST PLACE.

Not to mention our Affiliate Program Partners are getting RIPPED OFF by the lies perpetuated by CAP. Why should they pay TOP DOLLAR to have a forum their when Cap itself is sly and tricky running their own AGAINST them!!! OMG!

Sorry for all the caps. I'm trying not to be Really angry.

PLEASE BE HONEST CASINO AFFILIATE PROGRAMS!!!!

[NLP-GOD]

Thank you for asking this question. I am dependant upon this industry for my living like many others.

I'd be very concerned about it if I were you, too, Mojo - especially if you are outspoken on the issue. You could easily be a target for shaving or worse, players taken from your account, etc. I am not saying this will happen, as nobody can tell the future or know what lows can be stooped to, but I think you are quite right to be concerned.

If you are unknowingly promoting other affiliate programs managed by EM/CAP whom clearly read these forums - and if the assertions are true that threats of violence are being made to people, I'd say it's not a stretch to think that those type of people might also pick your wallet if there was a convenient way to do so. We are in a very $money$ centric industry. I am also not saying that would happen. I am saying I would be concerned from a business perspective.

Do you think so? I had certainly wondered why the Absolute Slots matter had gone all quiet, and I must say that it hadn't occured to me that the reasons might involve double standards at work. I hope not, but now I'm wondering.

Anyone who has been involved in these threads should be interested in what other programs EM operates. I'm no expert of the backend of affiliate software, but I've heard of ways in the past that players can be "lifted" out of your account. If EM/CAP was behind a program and I had made much noise over these issues, I'd want to know who they were and find some new partners.

I'd have to be making a lot of money with a program not to drop them if I found they were operated by EM at this point. It's the fact that people were deceptive. That's it - what else do we need to know to not associate with them anymore?

What's the saying George Bush tried to say? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. There won't be a next time."

[Webzcas]

What this whole sorry mess should tell you all is to not rely on 'phony' certification seals and the such like. If you want to earn a living in this industry then put the work in and perform your own due diligence. In other words, only promote programs where you are more than happy playing at yourself.

[worthy]

There is another forum, abest - or something like that- that runs diversified affiliate programs. Such as clothing, cc's, household goods and basically anthing you could imagine. They have IN HOUSE programs. There is no problem with that. It's in it's own section of the forum.

Good example!
abest didn't create they own programs for the purpose to deliberatelly screw affiliates.

[Caruso]

I'd have to be making a lot of money with a program not to drop them if I found they were operated by EM at this point. It's the fact that people were deceptive. That's it - what else do we need to know to not associate with them anymore?

It begs the question: how much? I could ask myself the same question.

There has been little reaction to the AS issue, and it appears quite similar on the ownership / management question, as there is a clear link between the casino and EM.

https://www.gpwa.org/forum/absolute-...up-178579.html

One's knotty knickers over a matter in which there is at best no vested interest are put to the test when another matter, in which one DOES have a vested interest, crops up.

If you publically denounce the former but keep quiet over the latter, you criticism is empty and lacking any credibility. You are no better in your deceipt than CAP have been over Cardspike.

I'm using the generic "you" here.

So let's see where the Absolute Slots investigation goes.

[Nandakishore]

I think all programs that have a relationship with EM should come forward and tell us about it right now if they exist.

I thinking this would be expecting a bit too much of honesty from the programs. If A has a connection with B and A turns out to be crooked, B will not disclose its relationship with A and spoil its own business immediately. As long as B is not doing anything crooked, we should not expect B to disclose its contact to A. And if B is also crooked, it won't disclose its contact anyway. It is a different story if B is not crooked and doesn't want to spoil its credibility and therefore decides to break its contact with A. That is quite possible, but it will take time.

[MichaelCorfman]

I believe that CardSpike and Absolute Slots are the only sites with which Effective Media Group is substantially entangled. The reason the focus was on CardSpike in the reporting we have done is that there were very significant and real payment issues. I am not aware of any payment issues with Absolute Slots (as I have said before, I believe the site and affiliate program are reputable), and so there were not those sorts of issues at play with respect to that site.

Personally, I don't think that it is desirable to run businesses in a way that there are significant conflicts with those you serve, but I think that is often reasonable to have some conflicts when the conflicts are visible so that there is not deception going on.

Now that the conflicts are out in the open the marketplace has the ability to factor those relationships into decisions made by others in the marketplace. Both affiliates and affiliate programs can make decisions that factor those relationships into account.

For example, an affiliate could decide they are willing or not willing to work with a particular affiliate program in light of the relationship, and they could decide they are willing or not willing to participate in activities associated with Affiliate Media (such as the CAP or PAP forums or the CAP conferences) in light of the relationship.

In terms of other Effective Media Group relationships, I do believe there are some other relationships, but I do not believe any of the others are significant, nor are there any details I can report about them. Certainly someone could ask EMG about the nature of such relationships. I do not know whether they would be able to provide specific information about the minor consulting relationships they might have in place, or whether disclosure of that information would violate any confidentiality agreements.

Michael

[NLP-GOD]

You may be right about this:

I thinking this would be expecting a bit too much of honesty from the programs. If A has a connection with B and A turns out to be crooked, B will not disclose its relationship with A and spoil its own business immediately.

So I started a thread for affiliate programs that wish to say we don't have any contracts with EM and wish to let us know that they DIDN'T have anything to do with EM.

Programs wishing to assert that they have no dealings with EM can post they have no involvement here:

https://www.gpwa.org/forum/programs-...tml#post526644

I personally don't want to wait for further discovery. I have websites to attend to. Programs can make this not drag on by being honest. Then we can all go back to work.

[AndreS]

Well on CAP I got reprimanded by The Professor for speaking poorly about the practices of some online casinos, while other online casinos I had problems with I was not given any reprimands. I wonder if the sites/casinos I had issues with, Absolute Slots being one of them because they link to a major affiliate site on their homepage, were all ones EM had a business relationship with.

[NLP-GOD]

A recent post by Michael makes me want to clarify the question: I don't think minor consulting with EM was a problem.

As long as EM didn't have significant involvement in managing your operations I think everything is fine. I don't think anyone really has a problem with this. Although you might want to mention it at this point so there is no question.

[Integrity]

I have removed my comments because some things are better discussed in a few weeks... after things have settled down =0)

[bb1web]

if the assertions are true that threats of violence are being made to people

I have used CAP as a tool to achieve my goals and I make no apology for that but at the same time this was what put me over the top.

I agree that innocent programs that might be dragged into the mud via having had contracts that involved nothing more than consultation should step up and speak out now and I know for myself I wil think nothing less of them.

In fact it is a show that I hope I have made that its never too late if you didn't have anything to hide in the first place.

The point I think best considered by programs in such position is that it probably will come out and by not stepping up now you force us to then speculate on why you didn't when as Bernie put it ...

It's the fact that people were deceptive. That's it - what else do we need to know to not associate with them anymore?

at this point I don't think anybody sees you as deceptive so get some free exposure while clearing your reputation of any speculation. Speak up if you've had ties. Or I see B has a thread where you can get some free exposure confirming you didn't have ties. win-win.

[NLP-GOD]

The thread where programs on the up and up can post that they don't have involvement with EM is here: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/programs-...em-178788.html

I am not talking about CAP certification, I have no serious problem with that. What I have a problem with is if you were certified at CAP and EM was simultaneously running your affiliate program, casino or poker room. It's the combination of the two that demonstrate the conflict of interest.

What I want is the full truth so I can run my business with people I can trust. We realize that there are two guilty parties for every partnership uncovered. EM and the program that teamed up with them. It was no secret to these programs what a clever design it would be to run both sides of the fence. To enter in a deal like that without disclosing it is pure deception.

Programs who participated in that type of arrangement should be called out by the programs who did not. You don't have to point your finger at anyone, simply hold up your hand if you weren't involved. If you are not talking because of social relationships and don't want to get involved because these are your friends, thanks for the lesson on how you run your business. Your deception is by omission. It's not that affiliates are to stupid to find the truth, the fact is you are standing in the way. In this case, you should have no problem at all with Lou/CAP because the act is the same - The act of not being transparent with your partners. When no one will participate in this simple role call it makes the whole industry look like a sham.

Transparency is not a one way sheet. We need to be able to see whether programs are connected to EM -- or not. Transparency applies to everyone.

The only other scenario that I can come up with for the deafening silence is that you are all involved, or a hell of a lot more programs than people think. It might not be two, it could be eighty. We never know unless those who are innocent in the matter help us identify them by a simple process of elimination. If the programs that aren't involved don't step up to the plate, they are guilty by complicity. (imo)

I am really disappointed in how quickly an objective rational is being buried here. I am worried at this point we will never know the full scope of involvement by affiliate programs. It makes me rethink my entire business strategy.

[arkyt]

I would love to know who they are involved with ... I have some pretty strong suspicions that they are in fact working with a lot more programs than any of us know.

I hung up my investigators badge a year ago, but I think it might be time to bring it back out and relaunch a march toward true ethics. Course based on history and the current climate, I doubt anyone is ready yet for such drastic measures. This is a greedy industry and its almost always about me instead of we.

[bb1web]

I hung up my investigators badge a year ago, but I think it might be time to bring it back out and relaunch a march toward true ethics. Course based on history and the current climate, I doubt anyone is ready yet for such drastic measures. This is a greedy industry and its almost always about me instead of we.

I don't know how you find time to do that and make your sites too.

as for greedy industry ... I think that goes without question.

To quote a player from way back that had written me and was actually speaking good about a casino but he put it as ..* "and you know these ain't exactly Nuns we're talking about" ... his reference meant even under the better of circumstances ... so I think its pretty much an expectation by all parties involved that this is a greedy industry.

That said, the continued growth and over all well-being of the industry to prevent it from sliding down a slippery slope ... into being viewed much more negative than is now ... will compell us to strive for an atmosphere of that favorite word on the end of everybody's tongue lately ... transparency.

If no effort is made to further the trust that has been built over the last 10 years ... (alot of which MGS can be thanked) then it won't be long before the industry becomes viewed by the average person ... the same way porn has been viewed for many years now. That if you want to surf much of it ... it is only a matter of time before you get something on your PC that you don't want.

For instance right now you can still visit a casino site without having it auto-download onto your PC ... most of the time. Still can surf gambling sites and not be invaded with 20 or 30 versions of minorly malicious script (things like changing homepage, favorites, ... perhaps not allowing you to go to other gambling sites not favored by the intruder, etc).

So it could get a lot worse. The sleazier the industry becomes the fewer people will participate because who wants to have to buy software protection so they can safely surf gambling sites to find a casino where they will likely lose their money?

Or risk having the spouse find out you were gambling because of some malicious script changing the favorites or homepage?

We need to keep building on the quality of our industry and continuing to at least uphold current status for surfing gambling.



*I capped the "Nuns" out of respect to the ladies. Quote may not be exact.

[arkyt]

That said, the continued growth and over all well-being of the industry to prevent it from sliding down a slippery slope ... into being viewed much more negative than is now ... will compell us to strive for an atmosphere of that favorite word on the end of everybody's tongue lately ... transparency.

Agreed - and time is slipping away - if this industry doesnt clean itself up QUICK and stop associating itself with unethical people - someone else will clean it for us - no doubt about it!

OT ALERT -

Transparency? LMAO - since hearing about the democrat get away this week - paid for by tax payers thats all Ive been doing LMAO!

Hmmmm ok government - Lets bitch about companies hosting expensive conferences and events and bully them into not holding them and/or apologizing about them. While at the same time let us hold our own events on tax dollar money so we can get our vacation/party in. What a bunch of hypocrits, but we already knew that didnt we? LMAO!