Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    PhilF (ex-WhichBingo)'s Avatar
    PhilF (ex-WhichBingo) is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    July 2002
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    425
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 173 Times in 88 Posts

    Default Where does 'copying' a site start/stop?

    Over the years we have suffered various affiliates copying our sites. This has varied in severity over the years.

    With most of these people I have contacted them and asked them to a)change and b) get their own ideas.

    Some have apologised and changed, others have ignored me whilst one in particular (you know who you are) and basically said 'yes I copied your ideas, ideas aren't exclusive so **** you I'll continue as I like'. He'd basically lifted a site (idea/structure/content) slightly re-written it and published.

    You'll all be pleased to hear that almost ALL of the people referred to above are members here and also GPWA approved - including Mr FuckYou.

    So today I've come across yet another site that has copied our basic site structure (top nav/content areas/sub-pages). In addition, some of the page URLs are exactly the same as ours.

    It's obvious that they have used our site as a start point of all their work and gone from there. They even have the cheek to have a copyscape warning on the site !

    So Where do we all stand on this issue? Where does 'copying' a site start/stop? And can I do anything? Am I wasting my breath on this issue?

    As a secondary issue will GPWA rap these people's knuckles? Throw them out?

    Frustratedly yours.......

  2. #2
    thepokerkeep's Avatar
    thepokerkeep is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    October 2007
    Location
    London Canada
    Posts
    2,886
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks
    1,004
    Thanked 1,213 Times in 799 Posts

    Default

    In order for any of us to give you a definitive opinion/answer, you will have to be prepared to name and shame. Without being able to see and compare the two sites, there is no way we can pass judgment.
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
    President / CEO - Gambling Affiliates Union

    Casino Affiliate Programs
    Affiliate Resources
    Gambling Affiliate Program Blacklist

    Email: admin @ thepokerkeep.com



  3. #3
    Chalkie's Avatar
    Chalkie is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2008
    Location
    West Bromwich UK
    Posts
    1,991
    Thanks
    683
    Thanked 580 Times in 393 Posts

    Default

    I agree with Terry, if your sites have been copied then there is no issue pointing them out here for us all to see, in fact many feel it is a responsibility to do so.

    At least 1 member has been relieved of his private membership here for copyright issues in recent months.

    This said, what you have mentioned is not quite clear cut copying so perhaps offering the sites in question with the question is this ethical and breaking copyright could be the best way to proceed.

    So today I've come across yet another site that has copied our basic site structure (top nav/content areas/sub-pages). In addition, some of the page URLs are exactly the same as ours.
    There is a limit to layout and i am sure that the layout of many sites is the same, this is only natural and url's, can easily be duplicated if following decent seo methods.


    For example, if i am doing a £25 free money offer at nobbys bingo i would maybe have the page called http://www.xxx.£25-free-nobbys-bingo

    Many may do the same, this is not unfair, however, if they are using your domain name in the url it would be.

    Just thinking out loud btw
    Paul

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    GAU - Gambling Afilliates Union


    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

    Winston Churchill

    Please sign this petition if you live in the UK or are an ex-pat Do not let any more children die for no reason

  4. #4
    dhayman is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    197
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts

    Default

    A couple of things to try (and all have worked to varying degrees with me):

    1) As you already have, politely ask them to remove the plagiarized content via an Email or
    Telephone call;

    2) Perform a WHOIS, and contact the Administrator listed on the site, similar to (1);

    3) Contact the ISP, that is hosting the site, and complain to them, along with documentation.
    They may put pressure on the plagiarizers;

    4) Have your attorney draft a "scare" letter, that gives them a finite amount of time to remove
    the plagiarized content, or you will threat with legal action;

    5) You can actually try legal action against them (DISCLAIMER: I have never done this).

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to dhayman For This Useful Post:

    Dominique (23 January 2010)

  6. #5
    tryme's Avatar
    tryme is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    March 2009
    Posts
    306
    Blog Entries
    5
    Thanks
    35
    Thanked 135 Times in 94 Posts

    Default

    After you've done 1 and 2 that dHayman suggests above, then I would go with sending a DMCA notice to their webhost and also to Google ( http://www.google.com/dmca.html ).

    If you're feeling generous, you could contact the plagiarist again and notify them that you will be sending a DMCA and give them a few days to change things.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to tryme For This Useful Post:

    Dominique (23 January 2010)

  8. #6
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
    MichaelCorfman is offline GPWA Executive Director
    Join Date
    June 2004
    Location
    Newton, MA
    Posts
    4,199
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 5,389 Times in 1,741 Posts

    Default

    I have moved this thread from the industry buzz forum to the unethical behavior reports forum since that is where it really belongs.

    I would encourange you to do one of the following:

    1. Report more specifics to a GPWA staff or a GPWA security team member and we will review the situation with respect to whether or not we view that legal and/or ethical boundaries have indeed been crossed and explain why we feel that is the case.

    2. Post the details either in this thread or in the private areas (preferred in the private areas since this is a serious matter that private members should really discuss amongst themselves while things are in the allegation stage) to review upon and comment.

    If upon investigation is appears that there is a real issue with a member here being in violation of the code of conduct then we will conduct a poll among private members to determine if private membership of the person in question should be revoked.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MichaelCorfman For This Useful Post:

    Anthony (21 January 2010), Dominique (23 January 2010)

  10. #7
    PhilF (ex-WhichBingo)'s Avatar
    PhilF (ex-WhichBingo) is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    July 2002
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    425
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 173 Times in 88 Posts

    Default

    PM sent to Michael.

    I would rather not 'name and shame' yet as I'm not asking specifically asking about an individual case.

    What I'm asking about is the 'concept' of what is copying an idea (rather than lifting copy). I don't want your thoughts on this to be biased by one individual case.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to PhilF (ex-WhichBingo) For This Useful Post:

    Dominique (23 January 2010)

  12. #8
    Betpartners's Avatar
    Betpartners is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2009
    Posts
    1,597
    Blog Entries
    5
    Thanks
    315
    Thanked 784 Times in 419 Posts

    Default

    I dont neccasairly blame you for not naming and shaming, sometimes that just opens up a can of worms and become a real mess.

    Sometimes just asking a questions like do you think this site xxxxx.com has copied our site.

    Its a sort of half way house option, your not naming and shaming the webmaster, your not even make an accusation, you are simply asking a question.

    From that question if it becomes obvious that the website has copied you, you can be assured the members on here will do the naming and shaming.

    In regards to your specific question, it is not so easy to answer.

    Blatant copying is obvious, its when it is not so blatant to naked eye that it becomes difficult.

    But for the most part the members on here are not idiots, they know when someone is taking the micky and will say so.
    Arthritis Care

    To find true bravery and courage all one need do is look in to the eyes of a sick child - A humble parent

  13. #9
    pgaming's Avatar
    pgaming is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    July 2005
    Posts
    2,854
    Thanks
    414
    Thanked 215 Times in 164 Posts

    Default

    Plain and simple burning content from another is not right. Content theft is an ongoing issue and with attitudes like 'yes I copied your ideas, ideas aren't exclusive so **** you I'll continue as I like' this person needs more than wake up call. I canít stand these sorts of people they nauseate me.

    No breathe is wasted exposing these thieves, liars, and cheats. And if I were me I would publicly parade there silly little games all over the place. I would throw them out of the GPWA first and ask questions later. There is no diplomacy angle for leaches.

    JMO

    Pgaming/shaddy

  14. #10
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
    MichaelCorfman is offline GPWA Executive Director
    Join Date
    June 2004
    Location
    Newton, MA
    Posts
    4,199
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 5,389 Times in 1,741 Posts

    Default

    In terms of marketplace ethics, in business is is generally considered fair play to look at the competition, see what you think they are doing right, and then try to emulate it.

    For example, Casino City built the first real directory of land-based and online gaming sites but that did not give us a monopoly on the idea, and there are no recognized intellectual property rights that could be used as a justification for criticizing someone for doing that (as long as the new directory was created based on original research and not just copying the contents of an existing directory owned by someone else).

    Ideas like using top navigation on a site, or using categories for the pages on a site such as "Site of the Month", "Promotions", "Reviews", "New Sites", or "News" are something anyone can legitimately do even if they got the idea looking at another site.

    There are a couple things folks cannot do.

    The first is to use an idea or process that has been given patent protection in a way that violates the patent. Portal webmasters are generally not in the business of coming up with ideas that can be patented and then patenting those ideas, so this aspect of intellectual property law and ethics is generally not applicable in GPWA webmaster type discussions.

    The second is something that comes up all the time in the world of building websites and that is copyright protection. You cannot take documents from another party and reproduce them, even with select changes having been made so that they are not word for word identical. However, you generally can take the idea encapsulated in a document and create a new document that incorporates the same ideas, but that is written fresh based on understanding the ideas. That is because ideas cannot be copyright protected.

    While it might be upsetting to see an idea used on another site, I don't think it is unethical most of the time, although it can be. For example, if a webmaster was working with another site and providing information used on that site based on a promise that the other site would not do the same thing, then it would be unethical for the other site to go back on its word. Perhaps the best known example of that type of ethical issue in the iGaming affiliate world was around the affiliate guard dog service being emulated by cap until it was stopped after webmasters made their thoughts on the subject known.

    Over the long term I view that ethical competition is good for the marketplace even if it is not always so convenient for those offering services to the marketplace. Staying in a leadership position generally requires a steady stream of new ideas and developing better ways of doing things rather than relying on the ideas and ways of doing things that created success in the past. And continuously coming up with new ideas and implementing them in a way the marketplace rewards is very hard work.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to MichaelCorfman For This Useful Post:

    livefree247 (25 January 2010)

  16. #11
    Nandakishore's Avatar
    Nandakishore is offline In Memorium, 1935-2014
    Join Date
    December 2006
    Location
    In Germany near Munich
    Posts
    2,104
    Blog Entries
    5
    Thanks
    931
    Thanked 496 Times in 367 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whichbingo View Post
    You'll all be pleased to hear that almost ALL of the people referred to above are members here and also GPWA approved - including Mr FuckYou.
    Frustratedly yours.......
    This is a very concrete and serious allegation. I think if you upheld this statement you should inform the GPWA administration who you are referring to.

  17. #12
    TheGooner's Avatar
    TheGooner is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,259
    Thanks
    1,949
    Thanked 4,211 Times in 2,004 Posts

    Default

    I don't think that you can expect to have some sort of unwritten and automatic "copyright" protection on a site structure and layout. If there are truly unique ideas in your layout that you think genuinely are an innovation or something new then you can try to patent them.

    We've seen in recent years quite a number of patent infringement lawsuits for quite surprising things (anyone remember the guys who grabbed bodogs sites because of some kerfuffle over a multi-media patent?).

    But typically, a start-up affiliate who is simply using basic graphics and HTML is not likely to be able to demonstrate anything unique in site structure and I dont think that you can copyright :
    - menu structures
    - url names
    - meta tags
    - general site layout

    You can expect :
    • protection on domain names (although it may be costly to persue)
    • protection on logos and identifying marks (especially if you've gone through the trademark process)
    • and to some extent protection from reproduction of article copy (although as Michael has pointed out - not rewrites- or articles inspired by your original).
    Of course - there are always various shades of of imitation - and if the other site appears to be deliberately trying to imitate your site and pass their site off as related to yours then that is something that you can prevent - albeit through a long-winded process.

  18. #13
    Betpartners's Avatar
    Betpartners is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2009
    Posts
    1,597
    Blog Entries
    5
    Thanks
    315
    Thanked 784 Times in 419 Posts

    Default

    Inspiration is to me a compliment.

    I visit TheGooners site daily and some of what he has done has inspired me on my websites, you would never ever know because its not copied or plagarised in any manner but the inspiration was there.

    That to me is a compliment to TheGooners website and i regard him as someone that is at the top of his field in his sector.

    If someone saw something i did and took the idea and moulded it their way with their touch and their identity i would have no issue with that.

    Just because someone offers tips on a website does not eman that you cannot do the same on yours.

    But if i named my site goonersguide.org and did the same layout etc, then that to me is blatant

    As i said earlier it is damn obvious when someone has blatantly copied you but other than obvious rip offs it is not so easy to determine.
    Arthritis Care

    To find true bravery and courage all one need do is look in to the eyes of a sick child - A humble parent

  19. #14
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    Costa Rica
    Posts
    2,092
    Thanks
    140
    Thanked 172 Times in 120 Posts

    Default

    I agree with the general consensus that although it's frustrating for someone to imitate your layout in terms of menu navigation, categories etc. it's not something you can exactly defend those as intellectual property. I think the line is between original on page content and layout.

    I feel for you. One time I saw someone did the same for one of my sites. I got a sick feeling and then thought about it for a few days. I found there was nothing to do. Not even a DCMA report could be filed for that. Anyway, I moved on and focused on better content.

  20. #15
    Dominique's Avatar
    Dominique is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2002
    Location
    The Boonies
    Posts
    4,777
    Thanks
    452
    Thanked 724 Times in 299 Posts

    Default

    What whichbingo describes has happened to me too - someone copies your entire site and then goes about changing this up a bit hoping to have a ready-made site that looks a bit different than the original and has some of the wording changed around.

    I caught them before the changing process was finished and a good number of pages were still identical, even had some of my aff codes still.

    In that case it was easy to put a stop to it, google dumped it, the hosting company dumped them, the affiliate programs dumped them, and that was that.

    Once the site is changed up enough it will be harder to do anything about it.

    I have spent 8 years building that site, and whichbingo is just as old if not older. That's a lot of work for someone to take and profit from, and anger at the theft is totally understandable.

    Whether one can do anything about it depends on how fast you catch it, i.e. is it all changed up yet or are there still perfect replicas on the "new" site.

    IMO it's always immoral to do this, but in the eyes of the law certain conditions have to be met.

  21. #16
    lauferb's Avatar
    lauferb is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2009
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    111
    Thanks
    50
    Thanked 16 Times in 14 Posts

    Default

    I think that the content of this thread is very important since it discusses a very big problem that exist today.

    I'm glad to see Michcael's response, I think that it's important that the industry puts efforts to fight against things like this. people that simply copy from others in the industry are not adding value to the industry but only take to themselves some of its profit. so it's an interest of the industry to fight against them,

    and I'm glad to see that this is what happens here in GPWA forum
    The Game Maker

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •