All 22 casinos in rewards player emails and links to CR website

[MichaelCorfman]

If GPWA cares about affiliates they need to act today and suspend the Casino Rewards Affiliate program until such time that these issues are fully remedied.

Discussions and participation in decisions regarding the appropriateness of suspension are reserved for private members of the GPWA and properly take place within the GPWA Planning and Policy Discussion forum. There is within that forum a thread started in the last couple days titled "Cross Promoting" that is centered around policies and actions that should apply in this area. Any public members who are affiliates and would like to participate in that discussion are invited to apply for private membership in the GPWA.

Calls for suspension in the private forums are taken seriously. Calls for suspension in the public forums are not appropriate.

Michael

[arkyt]

Calls for suspension in the private forums are taken seriously. Calls for suspension in the public forums are not appropriate.

I have stated my position whether you believe it to be appropriate or not - this industry is just as much my work place as it is any "private" members so I make no apologies for speaking my mind. If thats not appropriate you'll have to take whatever actions you feel are necessary to curb myself and other plubic members from speaking my / their mind.

Regarding the cross promoting issue and my call for GPWA to suspend Rewards Affilaites - its my view that if GPWA does not take what I consider appropriate action in this instance I shall reserve the right to consider GPWA ROGUE.

[GCG]

arkyt

Regarding the cross promoting issue and my call for GPWA to suspend Rewards Affilaites - its my view that if GPWA does not take what I consider appropriate action in this instance I shall reserve the right to consider GPWA ROGUE.

Arkyt it is not your forum/site.

I also do not agree with the GPWA what has happened here and that RA/CR statement has no consequences, but it will have for those affiliates that depend on monthly commissions.

During the last few weeks I have put a lot of energy into this, find facts and to get some conversation going with RA/CR and affiliates.

I have learned my lesson though : this forum is not my home anymore to discuss these things, I am not replying to this thread anymore and waste my time.

If anyone wants to add more to this story you need to do a little more than convince the powers that be, good luck with that.

[mojo]

During the last few weeks I have put a lot of energy into this, find facts and to get some conversation going with RA/CR and affiliates.

I for one really appreciate the time you took on this GCG. If not for people like you who are willing to bring issues to light, we would probably have far more losses.

This is being taken to the private forums. Ultimately, affiliates will voice and chime in on policy. It would be really helpful for you and arkyt to join. That's up to you guys of course. But it's not over yet.

[Dominique]

Arkyt it is not your forum/site.

I also do not agree with the GPWA what has happened here and that RA/CR statement has no consequences, but it will have for those affiliates that depend on monthly commissions.

During the last few weeks I have put a lot of energy into this, find facts and to get some conversation going with RA/CR and affiliates.

I have learned my lesson though : this forum is not my home anymore to discuss these things, I am not replying to this thread anymore and waste my time.

If anyone wants to add more to this story you need to do a little more than convince the powers that be, good luck with that.

Patience, patience. Getting affiliates to agree on something is like herding feral cats, I agree. But we have stuck together and effected change many times before, it may have taken months at times to get a program to see the light, but it did happen.

I know we all would like this to happen instantly, but I doubt that is ever in the stars. My take on this issue is that it will be fixed.

[MichaelCorfman]

GCG, you state the following:

During the last few weeks I have put a lot of energy into this, find facts and to get some conversation going with RA/CR and affiliates.

I have learned my lesson though : this forum is not my home anymore to discuss these things, I am not replying to this thread anymore and waste my time.

You will note that earlier in this thread I stated:

Discussions and participation in decisions regarding the appropriateness of suspension are reserved for private members of the GPWA and properly take place within the GPWA Planning and Policy Discussion forum. There is within that forum a thread started in the last couple days titled "Cross Promoting" that is centered around policies and actions that should apply in this area. Any public members who are affiliates and would like to participate in that discussion are invited to apply for private membership in the GPWA.

That was intended to be a very clear invitation to you to continue as part of the conversation and to influence what happens over the longer term. Personally, I think you will have a lot of valuable input in that conversation, and I would be disappointed if the conversation did not benefit from your perspective.

Michael

[arkyt]

That was intended to be a very clear invitation to you to continue as part of the conversation and to influence what happens over the longer term.

Non-Sense Michael! Rewards affiliates are participating in clear cut rogue marketing practices that are harmful to affiliates! No futher discussion as to what to do should be required - its cut and dry 1) they are doing wrong 2) they've said they wont change. The only option left is to suspend their sponsorship until they decide to change there minds and do the right thing. At that time a discussion would be required to determine if they are worthy of getting another chance. This issue isnt a day or a week old - its going on two months now!

@ GCG, I understand its not my site; but I had always viewed this as an "association" - a place where all members of the community (the online gaming business) were welcomed to share their opinions and make the work place a better one. Sadly this is no longer that association - its a business more deserving of a .com designation where the interest of the owner have a higher priority than the interest of the community as a whole. THAT is more than a bit troubling!

Rewards Affiliates are clearly in violation of the already weak GPWA Code of Conduct, yet they are being protected for one reason or another. Several practices the last year have already made it clear (as I aluded to above) that GPWA seems to protect its monetary interest and places more value on them than they do on those of the affiliates. I see that as a clear conflict of interest and compounding that; one might have to consider further conflict of interest created through business relationships at other sites owned by the owners, that might influence decisions at this site.

On top of this rogue marketing practice - we now have Brightshare / ASUSA closing its USA facing operations and sending players invitations to join Jackpot Capital - without any credit to affiliates. MORE rogue marketing practices !!! This is no doubt trying times and the way I see it; either GPWA is here to help affiliates or they are not!

[GCG]

Patience, patience. Getting affiliates to agree on something is like herding feral cats, I agree. But we have stuck together and effected change many times before, it may have taken months at times to get a program to see the light, but it did happen.

I know we all would like this to happen instantly, but I doubt that is ever in the stars. My take on this issue is that it will be fixed.

Dominique you are right patience is key.

Rewards Affiliates are clearly in violation of the already weak GPWA Code of Conduct, yet they are being protected for one reason or another. Several practices the last year have already made it clear (as I aluded to above) that GPWA seems to protect its monetary interest and places more value on them than they do on those of the affiliates. I see that as a clear conflict of interest and compounding that; one might have to consider further conflict of interest created through business relationships at other sites owned by the owners, that might influence decisions at this site.

We will see what happens if more affiliates feel the same way, most have become aware and are upset about this, but this issue will be given a lot of attention certainly as long as needed to convince rewardsaffiliates that their statement has to be amended and they have to become more affiliate friendly about how they deal with our referred players.

That was intended to be a very clear invitation to you to continue as part of the conversation and to influence what happens over the longer term. Personally, I think you will have a lot of valuable input in that conversation, and I would be disappointed if the conversation did not benefit from your perspective.

Michael

For now I rather want to see how GPWA will act to protect affiliates interests. I understand this is not an easy task to keep both parties happy, but things have changed dramatically now and it is not business as usual anymore.

If this and other issues about cross promotion / unethical marketing are not being addressed properly affiliates have no other alternative than to solve it themselves.

Leaving things as is for sponsors is not going to help, there needs to be some distinction to be made how groups handle referred players by affiliates.

[arkyt]

Well GPWA has had plenty enough time to post a resolution to this ... not only CR now BS (Brightshare) are stealing players as well....

GPWA, in my eyes you are now officially ROGUE!

[MichaelCorfman]

Well GPWA has had plenty enough time to post a resolution to this ... not only CR now BS (Brightshare) are stealing players as well....

GPWA, in my eyes you are now officially ROGUE!

Arkyt, we were rogue in your eyes long ago, and you know that. In fact, some time ago you made the following public statement about why you are here at all:

...Make no doubts about it, I've hung around GPWA just to take pot shots when the opportunity knocks...

There is active solicitation of views taking place in the private forums, as there should be. That is why you see little activity in this public forum thread right now. There have been over 50 posts on the topic in the private forums, and over thirty members have voted in a poll that was started yesterday afternoon requesting member viewpoints after some initial discussion.

Resolutions are normally only reached quickly when they are easy to reach. The objective of most members here is to reach the best outcome possible, and most members recognize that takes a lot of effort, and effort does take some time. If those attributes make the GPWA and all of the members that comprise it rogue in your eyes, then I wouldn't want us to be viewed any other way.

Michael

[arkyt]

Arkyt, we were rogue in your eyes long ago, and you know that.

Certainly I have questioned the operations of the site for quite some time (and I've made that no secret), but its actually the actions, or lack there of, the last several months that have clearly defined my views.

[theGman]

Arkyt do you have a better solution than the GPWA for handling this kind of issue. If so i would be interested to see it ?

I cant see how people can take what you say seriously if the above quote attributed to you by Michael is true. If you are here to just take opportunistic pot shots then you are not being helpful at all to the community. Whilst you may not agree with all that goes on here - and that is your right - why dont you put your money where your mouth is and come up with a better solution ?

[PingPong]

thoroughly enjoying reading! excellent thread that can easily inspire a sequel to "Casino" movie.

have a lot of sympathy and at the same time very much surprised with GCG though. How can you gushlingly ask for respect and ethical principles in gambling industry? It's not personal, GCG. It's strictly business.

You got the answer. Unacceptable? Well.. move on, don't waste your time on telling your points here over and over again. But since you are casino affiliate/good Samaritan IMHO you should educate/save people and fight for your rights in a proper (more global) way outside this barely visible thread. Moreover with over 10 pages it lost its spoon-feeding effect long time ago.

Also, I think you said it somewhere over here - "there are more and more ****** casino affiliate programs each day". I'm sure all are ready to work with you, so diversify your package and be prepared for a fraud. Save your nerves for that.

[arkyt]

If you are here to just take opportunistic pot shots then you are not being helpful at all to the community.

For starters when a program is caught doing something rogue and they publically state they have no intentions of changing what they are doing you remove them as a sponsor and stop pushing them on unsuspecting affiliates without delay - you dont do everything in your power to protect the sponsorship eg keep the money flowing.

A forum full of programs that conduct business in a manner that is hurtful to affiliates is not helpful to the community as a whole - its hurtful to the masses and beneficial to few. IMO, Rewards were caught doing something hurtful to affiliates and have stated they have no intentions of changing - once they said that they should have been suspended until such time that they change their minds and come back to the table.

" The contracts that the GPWA enters into with sponsor programs do allow us to legally suspend sponsor benefits if a sponsor program violates the GPWA code of conduct. "

LOL - ok!

I'm done here - I'll try to find an association that actually cares about affiliates instead of just trying to make money off of them!

[theGman]

A forum full of programs that conduct business in a manner that is hurtful to affiliates is not helpful to the community as a whole

I completely agree with what you are saying there and i do think that things are being done at the moment. Ok so maybe timescales are not to everyones agreement but would you rather not have RA come over to the good side or would you merely alienate them by suspending them.That is generally what happens when programs get suspended. So dialogue and constructive talk and as Dom pointed out patience - and if that fails then it is up to the membership to vote on what action to take. As is happening at the moment.

I guess it is a fine line to tread at times and this is one of those times.

[joeyl]

Easy Arky. This is not the way my friend. This one's big and complicated and you and Michael are on the same side on this one, trust me. He ain't having this for long anytime soon, don't trust me, just watch.

Pingpong - Arkyt's a good boy who has got me paid where others could'nt. He's no politician though. Michael is.

[bb1web]

Well if we're to even consider continuing to promote the RA properties then we need to know what are the exact boundaries? In other words I have read allegations ranging from untagged email logos ... to varied degrees of links on the websites not being tagged etc.

Renee as it is: it appears like RA would as soon see us all walk away as they would we stay. But I think they are making a strategic mistake to not consider this won't just be a walk away. There will be a rogue title to go with our walking away and it will receive heavy exposure.

If they want us to stay out of the rogue box they at very least need to let us know what EXACTLY it is we are giving up? I mean will it only be email logos? Or will it be more than that which won't receive a tag so the proper parties get their due commissions?

...........

On a side note; what a disappointment. Further is it amazes me how CR can look around and easily see that their appropriate approach that they have always taken before now; was the reason they became so big while we watched other programs which were actually in a position to take the top of the hill first: slunk back because of the very same kind of attitude that CR is now showing.

They boggle my mind that they will so easily throw away what took ten years to build.

And I remind what i wrote in my first post of this thread.They are already in the position to get their hands on a large percentage of the players just with the set up they have with the loyalty reward program marching players past all the other casinos in order to collect the rewards points into casino cash.

So why they would decide to take the approach they are taking ...

[GCG]

On a side note; what a disappointment. Further is it amazes me how CR can look around and easily see that their appropriate approach that they have always taken before now; was the reason they became so big while we watched other programs which were actually in a position to take the top of the hill first: slunk back because of the very same kind of attitude that CR is now showing.

They boggle my mind that they will so easily throw away what took ten years to build.

And I remind what i wrote in my first post of this thread.They are already in the position to get their hands on a large percentage of the players just with the set up they have with the loyalty reward program marching players past all the other casinos in order to collect the rewards points into casino cash.

So why they would decide to take the approach they are taking ...

They HOPE they can get away with it, but anyone knows by now what they should be doing : admit your mistakes and solve the issue....time is ticking and it is not in your favour CR/RA.
------------

As the CR site is very much incorporated and x linked, tagging outgoing links from the 22 sites is very difficult and the program efforts for SEO and how they want to redirect their own generated traffic is colliding with traffic from affiliate sites. This IMO has to be seperated to avoid the issue we now have.

I have thought about it a lot how to prevent this from happening so I will give it my best shot for a "solution for affiliates" :

Sites

1. add a subdirectory to all 22 sites eg : online.blackjackballroom.com with no links to the casinorewards.com site and give affiliates new tracking codes for this.

- create a seperate logon page for rewards points at the specific casino site not casinorewards.

- rewards logo : not linked, only in footer : not all over the place (for subdirectory online.blackjackballroom.com).

Benefits for the program :
A. The casino itself can still do their own seo / send their traffic to the casinorewards site.
B. No need to change existing pages.

Benefits for the affiliate :
A. No worry about players going to visit CR site directly or through loops of tagged links which is not ideal as the player will end up at CR site anyway.

2. rewards logo in casino lobby : make it smaller and put it somewhere else not in front of the player all the time.

Emailers

in general : Remove 22 casino logo's and links in emails. Small CR logo (not linked) at the bottom in each email.

1. Send newsmailers per casino it is possible starpartner has been doing this already.
- Winner stories per casino : take 1-2 examples and refer to the winners page of the that casino.
- New Games : when describing /promoting them you can do this per casino and refer to the casino games landing page.

etc

Once the layout for emailers per casino have been created going forward it can be an automated process.

2. Cross promo mailers should be tagged to last referrer IMO.

At first glance my solution is a big step for CR/RA to take but I could not find a better one that is "doable" and fits for the long term.

The "rogue house" is not what I would want to see for this program as they have proven to be responsive and deliver results.

[diceman]

(Remember admin fee's?)

I am glad there are other people like GCG willing to take the risk and time that I did not. To get deeper and deeper to the bottom of yet another deceptive affiliate term if you will by CW. Then presenting it in a way I only wish I could.
I am just really glad this was brought to light and that CR is finally exposed as rogue. I knew this; I just presented a **** poor way of going about explaining it in the past. I do this cuzz I am 50% hic and my mom is a "blimey limey" (as she calls it lol). However, to be right is just to be right.

Everyone seriously owes a dept of gratitude to GCG.

Edit to ad: I just saw this line after the post.
"The "rogue house" is not what I would want to see for this program as they have proven to be responsive and deliver results."
hmmmm... not rogue then? seems pretty damn clear cutt to me. Have you even noticed all the other things they have done in the past or am I really just that far off the mark here?
1. They have changed the damn rev share program more than any other program. Mainly changes that only help CR.
2. They pretty much said the same thing in a large scale as they have said to me in the past "deal with it" lol and yet your still not going to jump on and click the "rogue" button yet?

Im pretty confused then...

[GCG]

Edit to ad: I just saw this line after the post.
"The "rogue house" is not what I would want to see for this program as they have proven to be responsive and deliver results."
hmmmm... not rogue then? seems pretty damn clear cutt to me. Have you even noticed all the other things they have done in the past or am I really just that far off the mark here?
1. They have changed the damn rev share program more than any other program. Mainly changes that only help CR.
2. They pretty much said the same thing in a large scale as they have said to me in the past "deal with it" lol and yet your still not going to jump on and click the "rogue" button yet?

Im pretty confused then...

I am on wagershare and I am happy with it, no more whipe outs at the end of the month because of winners.......

Well I have had to click the rogue button not a lot of programs would survive.........and that for itself should be the last resort.......but that option is still possible.

Yeah they have been able to shave us for a long time because nobody was watching their back but only cared about their own bizz, once times get tough we tend to be more agile and won't tolerate this anymore.