bookmaker.com - you won't belive that!

[Amateur]

I just received an email from JR at 2betdsi (Diamond Sportsbook). I've always assumed that they were part of the BetCris/Bookmaker group as I can login to their backend with my Cris info. Anyways here is the first part of the email.

Hey Affiliates,
This is JR again. I just wanted to let you know about a few new developments to the DSI affiliate program. We have 2 bits of news, good news and GREAT news!

The good news first:
I have gone through the T’s and C’s and made a modification. DSI affiliates will no longer be required to have 10 active players for the previous week in order to collect their commissions. Instead, we are amending this to require that affiliates have at least $200 in their affiliate balance before they are eligible to withdraw.
It has been brought to my attention that affiliates are still promoting old banners with old bonuses and old promos on them. Please ensure that you are updating your banners to maximize your conversion rate. There is nothing worse than a player signing up for a specific bonus only to find that it is no longer valid. We are working to build a dynamic banner program that will keep your banners fresh and up to date without any maintenance from you, but until then please ensure that you maximize your conversion and it all starts with providing accurate information.

This is excellent news for affiliates who are owed money, and could not meet the previous requirements. Fortunately, they have listened to reason, and amended their Terms. The $200 requirement is reasonable, and attainable, even for new affiliates.

Now, go and make a screenshot of the amended Terms!!

Looks like I got scooped

Concerning DSI and BookMaker. They are NOT the same. BookMaker is the US facing site for betCRIS. BookMaker and DSI use the same platforms and software to manage their brands, but they are independent of one another. I am guessing that DSI pays CRIS to manage or use their platforms, both for players and affiliates.

Great information, thanks for clearing this up. There has been some confusion on this issue.

[Amateur]

There are still two additional issues with Diamond Sportsbook's Terms that need to be addressed.

This was taken from: http://affiliates.2betdsi.com/terms.aspx
Obviously, they have not yet changed their webpage to reflect the changes.

However, assuming the above mentiioned change is implemented, there still remain two seriously predatory terms which I consider means to rip off affiliates:

4.1
a. You will earn commission fees according to the fee schedule set forth herein:
Commission fees will be based on a percentage on the Net Revenue Share Model, on the amount of revenue generated by you in any one month. You’ll earn from 25% to 40% of the net revenues from sportsbook, racebook, casino, bingo and poker. The percentage breakdown is as follows:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><THEAD><TR><TD>Revenue per calendar month</TD><TD>%</TD></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR><TD>$0 - $20,000 net player losses monthly</TD><TD>25</TD></TR><TR><TD>$20,001 - $40,000 net player losses monthly</TD><TD>30</TD></TR><TR><TD>$40,001 - $60,000 net player losses monthly</TD><TD>35</TD></TR><TR><TD>$60,000+ net player losses monthly</TD><TD>40</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

* Note: Affiliate is required to have a minimum of 10 active players during the previous week to withdraw/transfer their earnings.
* We reserve the right to raise or lower any affiliates' commission rate solely at Management’s discretion.
b. If a player signs up under an affiliate account and does not make a deposit within the first 60 days, that player becomes a house account.

* Clearly, "reserve the right to raise or lower any affiliates' commision rate" is a predatory term! Why should an affiliate be treated like a child rather than as a business partner, where payment penalties are spelled out clearly? "Because I said so.." is simply not good enough when dealing with a person's livelihood!

b.Since American Football season lasts 4 months (largest sportsbetting), that means a player who signs up and doesn't deposit until mid-way or later in the season, is lost to the affiliate, even when they pay the expense, and do the work to bring in a paying customer. At the minimum this should be 6 months-1 year. This is not ethical behavior. If the website does not deleter its own direct hits after 2 months, allowing an affiliate to sign them, then it should not do this to its own "partners"!!

Diamond Sportsbook has made a step toward respectibility, but it still has some work to do!

[universal4]

Thanks for pointing this stuff out Liz, but I disagree with your statement

At the minimum this should be 6 months-1 year.

Inmyopinion, if an affiliate signs the player, they should own that player whenever they deposit whether that be the same day or 2 years later....

I will NOT promote a group with terms like the above.

Rick
Universal4

[Amateur]

Thanks for pointing this stuff out Liz, but I disagree with your statement

Inmyopinion, if an affiliate signs the player, they should own that player whenever they deposit whether that be the same day or 2 years later....

I will NOT promote a group with terms like the above.

Rick
Universal4

Personally, I agree, but most programs already do not use lifetime cookies, so limiting the life of the cookie is not unique to this group.

And, it's not really just that they expire the cookie, it's that they "take" that player, not even allowing another affiliate a chance to recuit them in the future!!

If they don't sell the player when they arrive via the first affiliate's referral, then another affiliate later convinces that player to go back, maybe 3 months later, and give them another chance for the sale, neither affiliate will get anything for their work.

If during the following season, another affiliate sends them there again, and finally the player makes a deposit, none of those hard-working affiliates will get any credit...that's my primary concern here.

DSI gets all those chances at the player, through the efforts of affiliates, and none of them get paid.

Let's get real here.... If affiliates had no value, none of the online gambling establishments would waste one second, or one penny recruiting and paying for their services!!

But then, casinos, sportsbooks, et al who need the services of affiliates, resent paying for those services... Even when those affiliate services help make those pesky car payments, and pay for those nice vacations.

They don't seem to look at this in the same way as, say, paying for commercials, magazine ads, etc.

What a world, what a world

[bonusbeast]

I don't care to promote Bookmaker anymore but they did wave the 10 player minimum on 2 different ocassions for me. The amounts were only around $250 though.

[balagan9]

this Keith guy from bookmaker doesn't stop to amaze!

it's not just that he does't wanna pay me my $3000 until i'll have 10 active players a week, now he also wanna take my players and offers me a CPS buyout for my players with $100 for any player that deposited over $300.

[justbookies]

Just reviewed this thread. I had to laugh when a previous post suggested they were sure that bookmaker had ethics and that keith had overstepped his position. I got the rudest affiliate email I have ever received from bookmaker.com when I queried the 10 active players per week rule (that was at the time they introduced it retrospectively and refused to pay me). I have searched all my old PCs to find it but sods law can't locate it. It came from above the affiliate dept. The attitude in bookmaker stinks. They are not ethical. They are not honest. Keith or anyone behaving aggressively in that firm will not have overstepped his position. He is merely reflecting the rotten attitude of his bosses. Beware. My $5000 that has gone unpaid by bookmaker.com should be a warning to every affiliate. Why the hell promote a firm that can behave like this? I have never had a problem with Betus or Bodog or Intertops (quite the contrary in all three cases), so forget bookmaker.com. You may be a larger affiliate with bookmaker.com who has never had a problem but you should take note of these warnings because they could change the rules on you in the future. They have a history. You just don't need to take the risk when there are decent US-facing firms out there willing to help you promote them. The irony for me is the total and utter stupidity of bookmaker.com knifing smaller affiliates in the back. From today's small affiliates will come tomorrow's big affiliates. If they saw the level of monthly sign-ups I supply to betus nowadays, surely they would want that. Lol, the 10 active player per week rule just wouldn't get a look in. Yet it is the vicious application of that idiocy that has seen my much larger traffic of today go elsewhere.

[LiveCasinoPartners]

You may be a larger affiliate with bookmaker.com who has never had a problem but you should take note of these warnings because they could change the rules on you in the future. They have a history.

I agree. Seriously, what does it cost to keep a smaller affiliate who is building their affiliate business happy? I would take warning to this as well.

[matted]

No affiliate start out making thousands of dollars. We all start small. Hopefully the smaller affiliates who get their break remember how they were treated (and that includes Bodog's term for new affiliates to cut their commission).

[vcasino]

thats the worst I have seen so far for their terms and conditions

[Prenut]

fwiw Bookmaker also just started charging processing fees to affiliates. I see two weeks of fees on my reports. No email even sent to let me know they would be charging those now.

[jctroy440]

That is truly amazing. Some of these programs are designed to extort and take advantage of the people that are responsible for the casinos success in the first place. What are they thinking?

[matted]

Bookmaker emailed me (below) and see my reply. All affiliates need to get this crap off your sites. Stop the BS excuses like "they are good for players" - if they treat affs so badly its only a matter of time before player reports start to surface.

Mark –

I have no plans to advertise bookmaker. I strongly oppose your ridiculous terms, regardless of my companies abilities to meet the requirement. 10 active players in a week to get paid is not realistic for most affiliates. I encourage all affiliates to avoid your brand. If bookmaker is getting paid by the player for their net losses, why not pay your affiliates rather than hold the money hostage? It’s an excuse to withhold and steal money from affiliates. And once an affiliate has moved on, the residuals are part of the standard contract with all the programs I promote. If bookmaker wants to be taken seriously by the affiliate community, then they need to learn how to be affiliate friendly.

Perhaps the 12 bucks you’ll steal from my account when you close it can buy bookmaker a clue…

Sincerely,
Matt
Cognitive Powers, Inc.

From: mark@bookmaker.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 11:05 AM

The purpose of this email is to open dialogue regarding your inactive affiliate account at Bookmaker.com.

Are you currently working as an affiliate marketer to USA players? If yes, contact me so I can help your website profit. I need to get you current with our new self updating landing pages, banners, live lines widget and mobile betting platform.

Please reply at your soonest convenience informing me of your availability to promote Bookmaker.com

Inactive accounts will be closed if no reply is received.

Best regards,
Mark
Bookmaker Affiliate Department

[jarvi]

I replied with similar comments about the quotas and never heard back from them. They have a bit over $100 of mine so that might buy them a few more clues although I think it will take a lot more before the get the message.

[GFPC]

Disgusting program!

Thanks guys for sharing your stories!! Glad to see some affiliates being active in this area. There are others who turn a blind eye to it.

[xChrisx]

I don't ever expect to see the money they owe me to tell the truth. I'm just trying to do my personal best to get the word out.

One thing that I do find surprising is that even the large affiliates who still promote them don't even know that bookmaker retroactively shortened cookie expiration sessions for affiliate ID's to only 14 days now.

This was a retroactive change which occurred recently. Once again, they did it without warning. I can almost guarantee that none of the current affiliates are even aware of this.

This last move really just confirms their true intention ... to steal from affililiates !!!!

[xChrisx]

Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 11:05 AM

The purpose of this email is to open dialogue regarding your inactive affiliate account at Bookmaker.com.

Are you currently working as an affiliate marketer to USA players? If yes, contact me so I can help your website profit. I need to get you current with our new self updating landing pages, banners, live lines widget and mobile betting platform.

Please reply at your soonest convenience informing me of your availability to promote Bookmaker.com

Inactive accounts will be closed if no reply is received.

Best regards,
Mark
Bookmaker Affiliate Department

I think their hurting if their sending this email out. I'm guessing this is why DSI gave up on the 10 active player rule, as it was hurting them as well. There's complaints of bounced checks from players recently posted on SBR as well as even more complaints on cold calling from bookmaker. On top of that they increased their bet limits. I think these are all signs that Bookmaker is hurting financially. Ultimately time will tell.

[balagan9]

some one at Bookmaker MUST wakeup FAST!! how do we do that? IMHO we're talking to much....let's be more practical please.

__________________
http://www.amexcasinoonline.com/

[casinoranking]

Good to see that affiliates are fighting back against this scum. Back in the day when an affiliate program ripped me off I would search google and contact every affiliate in the search results that was promoting that program and I would tell them how I got ripped off and give them the warning that it may happen to them. It may be worth doing in this instance. Either way I can't see how anyone is still promoting them. Keith is a scum back. The sports betting industry has next to no competition they could have easily been one of the top brands had they chosen a different route.

[daweller]

Im not happy about DSI charging me for deposit fees.
Is this a percentage of fees or do I pay for the entire fee... sure seems like the latter