Do you dare read?

[mojo]

I have gotten several heads up that the London Conference is, in fact, run by warren at CAP.

In the interest of transparency that we have enjoyed since the demise of CAP, please tell me we are not run by the very man that ripped us (affs and ams) off so thouroghly.

Is CAP alive and well in the London Conference? Are they stopping others from trying?

Cap tv. Alex, why would you allow captv that doesn't exist? Why is CAP a marketing partner?

Why also, and this is very touchy, is Dom and BS mods at AGD and CAP?

DO NOT YELL AT ME! I have no horse in this race!

It is legitamate questions.

[casinobonusguy]

I have always thought myself this was just a ReBranding of the conferences for Damage control purposes .I guess Alex may be able to give a better response or Warren himself , Or the Casinos who send the checks would know if the bank info changes.
Dom and BS are great people and if they have the time , I have no issues with them being mods all over the place.

[mojo]

I have always thought myself this was just a ReBranding of the conferences for Damage control purposes .I guess Alex may be able to give a better response or Warren himself.

100% correct. It's cap all over again. It is a way to get Warren back to getting millions a year and stealing from affiliates with every event. Unacceptable.

Transparancy please.

[matted]

Or, just screw the gaming conferences totally and go to a broader based conference like Affiliate Summit or Webmaster World...

Going international for a conference is just too costly and too time consuming for me right now. I think a generic affiliate marketing conference has advantages - for one, not everyone competing in the same verticals - so less competition, more information sharing, and a wider perspective. Good for cross marketing ideas as well.

[RayUK]

Or, just screw the gaming conferences totally and go to a broader based conference like Affiliate Summit or Webmaster World...

Going international for a conference is just too costly and too time consuming for me right now. I think a generic affiliate marketing conference has advantages - for one, not everyone competing in the same verticals - so less competition, more information sharing, and a wider perspective. Good for cross marketing ideas as well.

That is a very good point - and for those of us for whom the US counts as international and London as (sort of) local, there is the a4uexpo in London in the Autumn.

[bonustreak]

Why also, and this is very touchy, is Dom and BS mods at AGD and CAP?

Why don't you just ask me Paula and I would be happy to answer you anytime, which I think I have in the past already. I give my free time to support AFFILIATES in the industry and I don't appreciate your insinuation that it is anything but that! I have not been an active mod at CAP for months(the title still is there of course and I may just start helping that community again because it is MY choice to help new affiliates in this business) because I was taking time off to deal with personal family matters that to be quite honest is none of your or anyone else in this industry's business. I have been full time mod at AGD still of course because that is where my heart is if you must know!

I volunteer my time and nothing more, what happens at the table with the owners is not my business.

You have crossed the line with me this time Paula, I have no idea what your beef is with me and I don't care anymore at this point. You can fight with CAP all you want I don't really care but don't you dare drag me into your fight I am perfectly happy working on my sites and taking care of my family. I have no time for drama and will not be responding anymore to your pointless accusations. I will not take sides in the forum battles I refuse and I will still stay nuetral.

Why not just pick up the phone and call me next time? Joe has my number and I am sure you do as well.

[mojo]

Not sure why you are so defensive bonustreak. I am asking if cap has monetary gain in the confs and since you guys are mods that is why I mentioned you. I'm just asking out loud. Nothing wrong with that. It's not about you personally.

Like I said, I have no horse in this race. This is all so incredibly political. It's terrible.

At least it's out there even if some get upset with me. I don't think we'll get an answer. Now I'm going off to exile island. Maybe I'll take matted advce and go to more general confs.

[Webzcas]

Why also, and this is very touchy, is Dom and BS mods at AGD and CAP?

Why is this relevant Paula as to the involvement Affiliate Media have or have not with conferences?

The way you worded the above, I can understand why BS responded the way she did.

Being a moderator of a community does not mean you have a financial involvement in said community. It also does not follow that a moderator has a say in the business model of the company that owns the forum.

That said, asking whether Affiliate Media / Warren Jolly have any financial interest in the London Affiliate Conference is very relevant and I hope Alex can address this question.

[mojo]

Why is this relevant Paula as to the involvement Affiliate Media have or have not with conferences?

The way you worded the above, I can understand why BS responded the way she did.

Ok, well I'll put it this way then. It is difficult, because of the terrible things cap did, to put my head around CAP and AGD ties through mods. AGD is an awesome site that I completely respect. It is nothing personal re the individuals.

That is my honest answer. Does it tie in with AM? I don't know.

[Dominique]

Why also, and this is very touchy, is Dom and BS mods at AGD and CAP?

I have been a mod at CAP for over 8 years. Management may come and go, but I decided to stay for the community as long as messageboard policies changed radically.

I supported AGD from it's inception, and throughout, also when Lou and AGD were at odds.

When Andy asked me if I would help moderate, I said yes, after long consideration. (don't really have the time but AGD is the single most useful thing for affiliates at large that came along in a long time, imo. The information it provides is most useful for all affiliates. So I want to help as much as I can).

Mojo, I flat refuse to roll with the political climate in this industry. I am not afraid to swim against the current when I think it's for the better. I make independent decisions.

I stuck by Andy whether Lou liked it or not. I am a friend of Michael's for years, since long before he took over GPWA, and we remain friends regardless of what else goes on around us. I am a friend of JTodd from long before there was an APCW. I am a friend of Bryan's for years, and whether Arkyt, the CPA, Joeyl, Caruso and you or whoever like me or not, I am always respectful because there are good ideas and thought processes there.

Basically, I just don't take sides. I don't get involved in feuds or personal problems or "political" industry issues and I never get involved financially in anything but my own site.

The only thing that interests me is the affiliate community at large, regardless of where they post or who they like or whatever.

**** happens in this industry, and lots of it. Issues come and go. I try to keep my head above the resulting mud and look forward, I look at the long run and the overall picture.

And from where I stand, we ALL need to stick together and cooperate to make things happen for the better of all of us. If it's infighting, count me out. If it's positive action furthering all affiliates, count me in.

[GamTrak]

I'm gonna pipe in to ask how is dealing with a rouge site (CAP) different from a rouge casino brand (Gambling Wages)? Both are, according to some, proven to be a cancer to the community, but I don't see any of those members being cruicified for keeping that site going & growing like I got when I had them on my site which I finally got around to removing all of the links today.

It's not directed to anyone in particular to answer as I really don't need an answer, but I find it odd that it's a well known fact of what happened, yet Warren & CAP is allowed to carry on as usual (attending the conferences, etc) while Lou was locked out. It just don't seem right and I'm sorry, but I just had to speak my mind since everyone seems to be getting stuff off their chest.

I want to be clear that I have nothing personal against Christine or Dom as I think they are actually wonderful folks and enjoy hanging out with them when I can and will continue to do so.

I'm also gonna unsubscribe to this thread as I don't see any thing good coming from it and I'm finally 'working' and not up for bickering with anyone.

Edit: We posted at the same time Dom, but wanted to say that I completly understand where you are coming from and agree that we need to cut the crap and work together.

[Integrity]

CAP is bringing high profile webmasters back into their fold by offering them positions of importance. When affiliates big and small see these high profile names posting and/or moderating it lends credibility to the CAP brand. Thus, any webmasters who choose to post at CAP are knowingly adding to their legitimacy, and if that's their choice so be it.


People have their reasons for supporting CAP. Whatever those reasons are --- whether community or chivalry or something more personal --- it really doesn't matter at the end of the day. They all give strength back to the same people who would have slit our throats and monopolized the industry at any cost. Make no mistake, CAP wants to come all the way back, and we know what happened the last time CAP was in the position of industry leader. Remember the "good old days"?


If you're a webmaster and you fully understand the scope of what happened in the past, then you can surely appreciate what's at stake for our future. Knowing that, everyone is free to build whatever relationships they feel they have to... for whatever reasons they feel they need to. I don't suppose there's any danger in giving power back to those who so blatantly abused it in the past.

.

[PokerNations]

I used to be a member at PAP until all the **** came out about Cardspike. At the time a lot of affiliates were pissed and asking questions at PAP, and they were being silenced, having people in power in that community logging into their accounts (after banning those individuals) and posting supportive comments as if it came from the original creator of the account, to help support their party line.

They were also reading peoples pm's, etc.

I was banned from PAP just for being associated as a friend to Jeremy Enke. There is zero chance I would EVER support the business of CAP/PAP in any fashion whatsoever.

And while I understand it's not easy to leave a community you've been a part of for years, if you stick around as a mod or regular in one of their communities, then to me, that makes it look like you support their business practices. Because if you're a respected member of our industry, and you're actively involved in the community of a company with such horrible business ethics, then it's like flying a flag saying you're ok with how they operate.

If you're really here to support affiliates, then you wouldn't help the bottom line of an unethical company by helping them hold onto some shred of legitimacy.

Any traffic you give them is putting money in their pocket. Any posts you make only help them to further remain around and in business. Given how I and so many others were mistreated by these slimeballs in the industry, obviously I feel pretty passionate about this issue.

[Dominique]

Just one fact:

I have been closer to that situation than most - and I know a lot of things that are not generally known and that were part of my decision.

Now, I never had a thing to do with PAP, it is an entirely different message board owned by Affiliate Media.

But I DO know who did all the things you mention, and I assure you, that person is not at CAP anymore.

[PokerNations]

Just one fact:

I have been closer to that situation than most - and I know a lot of things that are not generally known and that were part of my decision.

Now, I never had a thing to do with PAP, it is an entirely different message board owned by Affiliate Media.

But I DO know who did all the things you mention, and I assure you, that person is not at CAP anymore.

Right, but at the end of the day, the three owners of Affiliate Media were all involved in shady business practices, mafia-style bullying of competitors, etc.

So regardless of who did the crap on the message board, there's a whole slew of other offenses even worse that these slimeballs were involved with, thus the reason I would never support anything they're involved because the owners are going to benefit financially for it.

[Integrity]

...the three owners of Affiliate Media were all involved in shady business practices, mafia-style bullying of competitors...

There were no clean hands. Period.


.

[GCG]

Cap is still a usefull board full of good industry history, it has its value.

Affiliates make CAP not CAP itself for me to visit.

[Integrity]

Cap is still a usefull board full of good industry history, it has its value. Affiliates make CAP not CAP itself for me to visit.

That may all be true...


However, CAP is a business.
Like all businesses, they are here to make money.
When CAP makes money, it's owners also make money.
When the owners make money, they become more powerful.
When the owners of CAP become powerful and wealthy, we have problems.


As I said before, every affiliate has their own moral compass, agenda, and goals. If that leads you to do business with CAP and add value to their brand while lending their business increased credibility, well that's certainly your prerogative. We were all witness to the past. It's each individuals choice how they build for their future.


.

[PokerNations]

Cap is still a usefull board full of good industry history, it has its value.

Affiliates make CAP not CAP itself for me to visit.

Can't add more than what J.Todd already said in regards to this, he put it succinctly

[Dominique]

There were no clean hands. Period.


.

Sweetheart, please don't make such blanket statements, especially when you don't have first hand knowledge.

Time to turn off the computer for the day, I hope I won't wake up to see I have been killed here.