Do you dare read?

[Shaun O'neill]

Casinobonusguy

As most know i am more than happy to speak out in public.

I always thought CAP would have an interest in the events it kind of makes sense considering Warren/CAP played a huge part in setting them up from the start, is bad that two big players come out and state they will not attend any events that CAP geta slice of the action well yes of course it these events are attracting affiliates, will it stop operators from attending, simple answer is no.

I hope Robin changes her mind as i really wanted to meet her after speaking to her for almost 2 years.

Shaun

I am not surprised by any of these things coming out today .I think you have to be very Naive not to assume these were still tied to CAP.Do programs pay more,less or the same now since the Rebranding? The fact Gamtrak won't go is huge IMO .I know most affiliate managers are muzzled by the owners not to get in the middle of stuff like this discussion but would be nice to see somebody with balls to provide an opinion from the other side of the fence/Does it matter to you at all?

[casinobonusguy]

Should have said anyone other than Shaun or Casino Jack lol

[giggles7p]

Should have said anyone other than Shaun or Casino Jack lol

HAHAHAHAAHAHAH! Brilliant Judy! LOLLLLLLL

That was my laugh for the day...and it was needed...Thanks!

[arkyt]

If Alex came in and said CAP still owns and runs these conferences I don`t think it will change much at all.

Exactly - GPWA knew all along (as did a lot of affiliates) that CAP was still involved with the conferences. I really can't believe thats such a big surprise. I guess that slight of hand name change awhile back really pulled the wool over peoples eyes?

Whats surprising is that GPWA, would simple ignore the question when posed even though they knew the answer. That in no way shape or form represents the greater interest of affiliates as a whole! Dont forget that!

Not only that its very surprising knowing the history, that they would willingly participate in an event which was designed to help fill the pockets of CAP, a site which many, including many at GPWA consider rogue. It seems the good old days of you scratch my back and Ill scratch yours as long as you ignore what my other hand is doing are soon to be back in fashion.

I've been saying for quite some time now that CAP & GPWA are for all intents and purposes the exact same creature & its issues like this and recent days past that start to make that picture clearer for others. That could be a good thing, if individuals actually start demanding better.

Internal bickering, insulting, off topic arguments, assumptions etc only hurt affiliates as a whole. You need to realise that affiliates are dam important now and a huge part of the industry and insulting each other will only hurt you guys and represent you as individuals that are not serious business people.

For real - conferences would be so much more successful if everyone just shut up, stayed in line, and followed the carrot. Right? Nahhhh, these conferences are not benefiting the whole - they are benefiting a few at the direct expense of the whole! Now come back and slam me, get half a dozen of our allies to come in and pile on because that will truly make everything I say wrong. uh huh...

[casinojack]

Well, GPWA has not stopped going. I am starting this year. Bottom line is I have a lot of affiliates that go to these event and are on different forums.

I feel they are good places to meet people to do business with, period.

[matted]

This thread makes me a bit sick... And I make a point of avoiding these things, but wanted to add some options.

Basically, if you dont like the sponsors of the conference, then don't go. By attending such a conference knowing that you vehemently disagree with a sponsor, then let the organizer know and dont attend. The sponsors want you there and the organizers want you there - but it is YOUR decision.

Alternatives:

1. The CAP events (now events like LAC) seemed to start as an attempt to run Marc Lesnick and his CAC events out... squash all competition (like what they tried to do with Andy and others). CAC is a top notch event - I went to the last three held in Las Vegas. I know people have different opinions of Marc - but I think he's got the right attitude and lacks conflicts of interest. Try teaming up with him - he'd love to increase traffic to his show.

2. Dont go to a gaming conference. There are plenty of general affiliate marketing, search engine, and webmaster conferences around - in many countries. I'm going to Affiliate Summit - it's a domestic flight for me and has a lot of information and people around - and a wider perspective.

[Webzcas]

I will be attending CAC this year in Amsterdam, however for the first time, I will be attending in full the LAC also.

I always go to the ICE and have only briefly visited CAP Euro/LAC on the opening morning for the first two years. I have always been against the idea of additional conferences and felt it unhealthy that CAP were muscling in on this area.

Last year I even turned down an invite to the awards night. Instead, Casinomeister, Simmo!, Jetset and Spearmaster travelled up to my home town from London the following morning after the awards and we spent some quality time away from the drama of CAP Euro.

But I will be attending LAC this year fully knowing CAP have a finger in the pie.

Why?

Well it is certainly not to support Warren. The fact I am attending is purely a business decision, as it is only 100 miles from where I live and not being in a position to attend other events last year since ICE 2009, it makes perfect sense to attend.

[Chalkie]

I have to agree with Arkyt, i cannot believe that people really thought that the conferences were not connected to CAP still!

Come on people, think about it, these conferences are too big for them to be organised without contracts in place? Contracts that would not just be per event, but that must be be water tight and also valid for a substantial amount of time! This is a massive business with much money involved, do you really think that they would be organised like a pub meeting of a few friends?

How was Alex ever going to just take over and boot CAP out of the agreement?

Why should he?

Do you think the sponsors and exibitors were this green too to think that CAP was not involved? Most probably knew all along anyway!

If Alex is wrong to carry on and should have risked his business to try to break free from the many agreements that were in place then are not all that continued to patronise the conferences in some way?

Imagine what is involved for Alex to break free from CAP with conferences, first off there would be the obvious battle where there would be 2 conferences (or maybe more) fighting for their audience, then of course there would probably be somewhere in the contracts that stated neither party are allowed to go in to direct competition with each other surely! I am not talking about a mickey mouse contract such as the type that programs offer affiliates, i am talking proper paper contracts written up and agreed by Lawyers.

If Alex is wrong to continue then are not all the others who have continued to be involved wrong too?

Is everyone that attended since in the wrong?

Is everyone that sponsored or exibited in the wrong?

Is everyone that allows the conferences publicity wrong?

The real bottom line is that when money is involved you will not get 100% integrity and ethical practice, its money first and all else after!

Should all this be a reason not to attend conferences? Why should it?

GPWA exhibit so should we stop supporting them because they support CAP?

All the exhibitors, should we refuse to work with them because they support CAP?

Should we have nothing to do with people who post at CAP (let alone the mods there)because they are supporting them?

Should not think so, because it is no different to people who promote programs that most have rogued. Should we have nothing to do with people who promote programs that are rogued? I bloody hope not, because if we do we will all be sat in a room talking to ourselves for the main.

[Shaun O'neill]

Paul

Great post and some pretty spot on points, one point that i think people should know is that Alex does not own the company that arrange these events he works for public company and has aboard and share holders to answer to so with a lot things they are out of his hands.

But Paul 2 affiliates that are well know have saidthey will not attend due to CAP so its sad but i respect their decision.

Shaun

I have to agree with Arkyt, i cannot believe that people really thought that the conferences were not connected to CAP still!

Come on people, think about it, these conferences are too big for them to be organised without contracts in place? Contracts that would not just be per event, but that must be be water tight and also valid for a substantial amount of time! This is a massive business with much money involved, do you really think that they would be organised like a pub meeting of a few friends?

How was Alex ever going to just take over and boot CAP out of the agreement?

Why should he?

Do you think the sponsors and exibitors were this green too to think that CAP was not involved? Most probably knew all along anyway!

If Alex is wrong to carry on and should have risked his business to try to break free from the many agreements that were in place then are not all that continued to patronise the conferences in some way?

Imagine what is involved for Alex to break free from CAP with conferences, first off there would be the obvious battle where there would be 2 conferences (or maybe more) fighting for their audience, then of course there would probably be somewhere in the contracts that stated neither party are allowed to go in to direct competition with each other surely! I am not talking about a mickey mouse contract such as the type that programs offer affiliates, i am talking proper paper contracts written up and agreed by Lawyers.

If Alex is wrong to continue then are not all the others who have continued to be involved wrong too?

Is everyone that attended since in the wrong?

Is everyone that sponsored or exibited in the wrong?

Is everyone that allows the conferences publicity wrong?

The real bottom line is that when money is involved you will not get 100% integrity and ethical practice, its money first and all else after!

Should all this be a reason not to attend conferences? Why should it?

GPWA exhibit so should we stop supporting them because they support CAP?

All the exhibitors, should we refuse to work with them because they support CAP?

Should we have nothing to do with people who post at CAP (let alone the mods there)because they are supporting them?

Should not think so, because it is no different to people who promote programs that most have rogued. Should we have nothing to do with people who promote programs that are rogued? I bloody hope not, because if we do we will all be sat in a room talking to ourselves for the main.

[FictionNet]

Everyone else has yelled something or other here so I may as well bore you with my thoughts.

I'm no fan of CAP. I hated their tolerance/approval of some programs allowance of spam and CAP's attempts to muffle my shouting about it. My hatred of spam and the damage it does to our industry is very much on record. I'm pretty sure I was very close to being booted from CAP. I nearly walked myself. I'll never really forgive CAP for being so 'okay' with their spamming paid-up programs.

The subsequent BS and dishonesty from CAP during the breakdown did nothing to make me love them and I admit a sly feeling of "got what you deserve". Not perhaps the most mature attitude but there we go.

However. I still post very occasionally at CAP. Despite everything I said above, I have used their forums for years and got something out of it (information/community). I see no problem with repaying CAP with a small amount of loyalty and admittedly very occasional posts. I now post at GPWA far more than I did previously. My loyalty has shifted over here and I feel cleaner for it.

See you all in London - I think we all need to get very, very drunk and have hugs

[Chalkie]

Paul

Great post and some pretty spot on points, one point that i think people should know is that Alex does not own the company that arrange these events he works for public company and has aboard and share holders to answer to so with a lot things they are out of his hands.

But Paul 2 affiliates that are well know have saidthey will not attend due to CAP so its sad but i respect their decision.

Shaun

Thanks Shaun, i should have mentioned the PLC bit too, that's very important on a personal level and also shores up some of the points made. This is a corporate issue make no mistakes!

It is sad that two well known and respected people have said they will not attend very true, will people gain or lose from non attendance on a personal basis though? Morally most likely they will, otherwise, i doubt it.

[GamTrak]

I hope Robin changes her mind as i really wanted to meet her after speaking to her for almost 2 years.

Hi Shaun,

Thanks dude. I won't be changing my mind as I'm so done with all of this crap. I'm not gonna contribute a dime as long as they profit period. I don't need conferences to grow or make my business and I know this because I have attened them for a variety of reasons since 2003.

I've never been one to push my views on others (like so many here did toward me during the AU fiasco) most are posting in this thread and I definately don't recall being given the benefit of the doubt like they are giving Alex and Warren/CAP, but i'm not surprised and don't really care anymore.

That is what I mean about being fake, but to each their own. It just goes to show that not many are truly crusaders for good, but just all talk, show and make self-serving decisions.

[Chalkie]

Hi Shaun,

Thanks dude. I won't be changing my mind as I'm so done with all of this crap. I'm not gonna contribute a dime as long as they profit period. I don't need conferences to grow or make my business and I know this because I have attened them for a variety of reasons since 2003.

I've never been one to push my views on others (like so many here did toward me during the AU fiasco) most are posting in this thread and I definately don't recall being given the benefit of the doubt like they are giving Alex and Warren/CAP, but i'm not surprised and don't really care anymore.

That is what I mean about being fake, but to each their own. It just goes to show that not many are truly crusaders for good, but just all talk, show and make self-serving decisions.

Robin, i am sad that you will no be there, really want to meet you.

I hope you are not including myself in the above? I have always been one to refuse to demand things of anyone in this way. For me it is plain and simple that never will everyone act together in this industry 100% and to try to force this is impossible. What people engage in with their own business is none of my concern and i would never judge someone on just this basis.

[Webzcas]

I shouldn't bite but I will..

There is a big difference between knowingly leading sacrificial lambs to the slaughter house and attending a conference to meet with peers and business partners who you respect and are friends with. Especially when not $1 of mine will be lining CAP's pockets.

Make of that what you will.....

[pgaming]

I shouldn't bite but I will..

That's right you shouldn't it would take a saint. I understand where Robin is coming from. Must be hard to say anything after being punched beyond the grave by some.

Another back stabbing attempt IMO. Welcome her to the event while throwing knives into the back. I know no one who deserves to treated as sub standard human being. It disgusts me to be frank and I am aiming to fix all this.

As for the Virtual Group I am presently digging them a six foot grave. I intend of throwing their brands in there by this years end. It is good for all parties the player, affiliates, and would likely benefit the RTG brand.

And you know if I have time I just may compare the squeaky clean records of others.

pgaming/ shaddy

[GamTrak]

That's right you shouldn't it would take a saint. I understand where Robin is coming from. Must be hard to say anything after being punched beyond the grave by some.

Another back stabbing attempt IMO. Welcome her to the event while throwing knives into the back. I know no one who deserves to treated as sub standard human being. It disgusts me to be frank and I am aiming to fix all this.

As for the Virtual Group I am presently digging them a six foot grave. I intend of throwing their brands in there by this years end. It is good for all parties the player, affiliates, and would likely benefit the RTG brand.

And you know if I have time I just may compare the squeaky clean records of others.

pgaming/ shaddy

Thanks Dude! You speak the truth! Due to the fact that I respect most folks on this forum I'm not gonna even go there and reply in the manner that I feel like doing and I appreciate the kind words.

When I was getting dragged under the bus I must have missed my 'support' like some always get, but it's all good I'm a big girl and don't want fake-ass friends anyway!

Bite all you want Dave, I'm not gonna waste any more time on this, but I won't forget it that's for sure.

[GamTrak]

Robin, i am sad that you will no be there, really want to meet you.

I hope you are not including myself in the above? I have always been one to refuse to demand things of anyone in this way. For me it is plain and simple that never will everyone act together in this industry 100% and to try to force this is impossible. What people engage in with their own business is none of my concern and i would never judge someone on just this basis.

Hi Paul,

We are good!

[Chips]

Paul, good points, Call me a fool but I did think that C was outta the game. I have no love lost for the lot of them.

I promised my wife in 2008 following Barcelona that she could go to London with me. I had surgery on the day we would have left. So, I am going this year. I made a promise to one of the only people I trust in the world and intent to keep it. No, it does not take $1 from my pocket to attend (other than flight and lodging).

My trip has been booked since before Christmas and I plan on having the time of our lives while we are there. I will get something out of the trip too, and it will better my business in some way.

Whether I attend another in the future will remain to be seen but I am not cutting my nose of to spite my face. Maybe the time over the past few days has helped me to realize that even though C is involved in one way or another, that is does not mean I have to shake the hands or be involved in any of the day to day there. Then again, maybe I am wrong. But my ass is on a plane come the 26th.

Robin, I really hate you are not coming too, was looking forward to meeting you face to face. Maybe somewhere else down the road...

[thepokerkeep]

Prior to Warren's post admitting he still has a financial interest in the conferences people could at least pretend to think CAP was not profiting from them. That excuse is no longer valid. I applaud Robin and Anthony for refusing to attend.

Make no mistake. Anyone who attends is in fact helping to line the pockets of Warren and CAP. As long as affiliates attend, the casinos and affiliate programs will pay to be there. If affiliates stop attending, the revenue stream will dry up in a heart beat!

For the record, I will never attend a conference that Warren profits from. Instead, I will be attending the Toronto Conference in July. Hope to see everyone there.

[PokerNations]

Vote with your wallets and feet. If the programs see that people will not support an event that benefits the bottom line of Warren/CAP then they will stop supporting it as well.

Likewise, I feel for Alex and the others from his company who are likely stuck in a contract that makes it difficult to extract themselves from the clutches of CAP. But if people stop supporting events that benefit CAP then perhaps a way could be found to remove themselves from this association.