Do you dare read?

[pgaming]

Had me worried thanks Anthony. JTodd needs a breather after constantly being trampled by chariot wheels.

Perhaps Alex can shed some light on the original question posed here. I did not want to get involved in a blood shedding thread but the truth needs to be told.

A fair question I would be curious in knowing.

Good thread Paula best we be clearing the air before the New Year truly takes off.

pgaming/ shaddy

[mojo]

I knew it was going to be a touchy subject as I said in my first post but I never thought it would go this far. Really? Deleting and editing posts because we are dicussing cap employees? (paid or not) No one called anyone any names. Everyone agrees they personally like these folks. I do too. However, there is an overwhelming question here that should be faced. Like it or not. Not deleted.

In fact, I'm having flashbacks!

I do not want anything or anyone who represents cap in any way to represent me in any way. It is a legitimate concern, obviously by many here. Deleting and editing does not make it go away.

Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me.

We haven't even gotten around to discussing if CAP has their finger in the conf pie as Chips mentioned above.

The politics here are horrifying. I will be following jtodd out the door. Bravo jtodd for trying to do what you know is right for the rest of us little guys.

My new home is in my siggy..

Good luck everyone.

[thepokerkeep]

That post was deleted as well....


Go figure...

.

I thought your post was shockingly awesome.

[mojo]

I thought your post was shockingly awesome.

Me too but I am told jtodd's posting privaledges have been revoked and he is being censored.

It's a sad sad day at gpwa-land.

[TheCPA]

Not adding fuel to fire here folks.
I will simply give you a few facts as I lived thru all of it from the beginning.

First of all, and for some time now,....there really is very little difference between CAP and the GPWA,......other than the ownership.

They are both serious financial entities as it pertains to revenue generated from the programs on the backs of affiliate interest, and support for the respective forums.

The ownership is certainly a major factor IMO as it relates to how the affiliate community should accept or reject them.

Having said that, let there be NO MISTAKE on this. Lou devised, manipulated, and literally created CAP from the GPWA membership by endearing himself to the GPWA Members, then creating controvery within the GPWA to build CAP with.

At that time the GPWA, and affiliates were more united than they have ever been since, but LOU screwed that all up. JMO.

Cindy was a handfull to be sure, but what occured was well planned and orchestrated by LOU to dismantle the GPWA via conflicts with Cindy.

It worked well, and CAP rose to significant levels just as LOU planned it.

Fast forward. I don't know Warren Jolly, but I have many people who do know him and felt he was a just another con.
Perhaps that's why Lou partnered with him. This guy is a better CON than me??
I really don't know Warren as mentioned. Maybe I'd like him, but in a minute I could tell you if he's a con or not.

His record for Honesty and Integrity, as J. Todd mentioned are not too good.

Supporting Rogues or CONS in this business is not healthy for any of us in the long haul. Thus Joeyl and Caruso's CRUSADE on these fronts are all very valid, IMO.

If I ever meet Warren Jolly, I'll report back accordingly, but for now, I can't find one valid reason for anyone to support CAP in any fashion. JMO.

While I don't particularly like the volume of cash the GPWA now generates off the programs, or the overall direction of the GPWA,..... I do know that the prices are fair at least, {WAY FAIR COMPARED TO THE OLD CAP}, and Micheal is a fair minded business man with some basic principles and ethics that does allows me to support him, and new GPWA to some degree under his direction.
Thus I still post here occassionally, but wouldn't think about contributing CAP anymore.

Is there room for improvement here at the GPWA? Hell yes, but I think there is still some hope.

Bottom line IMO. If you want unity within the affiliate community, let's support the known good guys, and let the KNOWN rogues die on the vine.

[thepokerkeep]

I'm alarmed by the censorship going on as well. We all know JTodd speaks with passion and often gets a little riled. We all have our opinions about Lou, Warren and CAP. Every discussion involving CAP or it's owners (past or present) becomes a flame war, this one is no different. Why censor this particular thread?

Paula asked an important question and she deserves an answer.

To see her talking about leaving the forum... and to see JTodd taking a break (forced or voluntary)... is a sad day for GPWA.

[Integrity]

Good thing Warren isn't watching all of this Michael.


.

[TheCPA]

Look folks. Somtimes people need a break due to being a bit too passionate. There is a point when it makes sense, and Micheal felt this was the case, so let's respect that.

While many of you probably think I'm a major Caruso fan, and I am, I have put him on vaction at my forums a few times over the years myself!!!! LMAO!!!

I'm proud to say we always talk it out, come to terms.... and more importantly to me, we have always remained good forum friends.

This is no different.

Take a breath. Things will be fine!

[MichaelCorfman]

Please allow me to explain what is going on here from my perspective.

Integrity made a post in this thread that revealed information that was confidential information that he was told could not be externally published.

This was, from my perspective a serious breach of his confidentiality agreement.

I removed that post and requested that no further posts be made to give things time to cool down.

Unfortunately, Integrity made the decision to ignore my request.

I try to provide a great deal of lattitude to employees, but this act of direct insubordination went too far from my perspective.

As a consequence I have deleted subsequent posts made after he was requested to post no further and I have placed him in a banned status to cool down.

I take confidentiality issues very seriously, and feel I have been placed in a position where I had no choice but to take an action that under other circumstances I would never take.

Michael

[giggles7p]

What could be "so confidential" that it requires a "temp ban" for JTodd?

Micheal I thought everything that has to do with this forum and community was transparent...but with you temporarily banning someone for saying something in a thread that you have announced is "confidential".....just makes myself and i am sure others start to wonder just what is going on that we can not know about?

I am not talking about your personal business, or income..etc..but whatever Jtodd said must of been in line with what is being discussed in this thread, so what is so confidential about that?

[MichaelCorfman]

When an employee reveals information that is bound by a confidentiality agreement it does not matter whether others might judge the information a serious breach or not.

When our company has been provided information in confidence I have an absolute obligation to treat it that way, and I cannot tolerate an employee making a decision on their own to breach that agreement.

If I did so then I would not be provided with the information in the first place.

Furthermore, this is not a case of some coverup, the information will be revealed. But it will be done in a way that does not violate agreements our company has with others.

If I take a different postion then my word is meaningless.

I will not take a different position.

Michael

[TheCPA]

I tend to agree Giggles.

Why,.... or more importantly how is it that you, Micheal, the folks at Casinocity, or J.Todd are entitled to have information that concerns and involves ALL AFFILITES,.... but WE, the people at risk, the REAL stakeholders are not entitled to have the same information that you have???

That's not what any of us are after with the GPWA, IMO.

I'm a big boy, and should be allowed to make my own decisions based on the totality of ALL information available,...not just the information YOU, or anyone else decides is OK for me to have!

That's where you keep getting political under the guise of confidentiality.
It's not Ok, and that's why Paula called this all out to begin with.

[MichaelCorfman]

I agree 100% that the substantive portion of the information I have that affects other affiliates should be available to other affiliates.

I'm also quite confident that information would have been provided voluntarily in the very near future.

To preempt voluntary disclosure with a breach of confidentiality is just plain wrong. It is something I cannot agree is appropriate. And I would go further and say that anyone who feels otherwise does not have their moral compass pointing in the right direction in my opinion.

Michael

[pgaming]

Just a note this could be caused by me not smoking since Jan1/10

That is if we truly put the affiliate’s interest first before our own. It is WE the members who drive these boards and should be extended the courtesy of transparency and the free flow of information is passed on. Maybe then we have a chance of cleaning up the Virtual Group, cpays, and corrupted business people that plague our industry. We are not pawns to be used to fulfill one person’s desire to rule the World. Make riches off our backs while we beg for our rightful commissions. Attend conferences so a few can walk away with the loot at let others bleed. See players constantly be mugged left for dead.

And still the question remains,

Is CAP alive and well in the London Conference? Are they stopping others from trying?

Not for my sake I only attend smaller venues within 1500 miles from home.

Good post CPA

Okay I am finished now.

Pgaming/ shaddy

[giggles7p]

Ok, i am stuff to say here and first i want it known that Micheal i truely like you and love GPWA. Now with that said and i hope believed i have a huge problem with you being privy to information that I or no one else is "approved" to know about.

I come to this forum not to have my information hand feed to me. This is a p lace i go to talk with other seasoned affiliates, new affiliates and good friends in an industry that can be hard and cruel at times. I do NOT come here as a place to be told what i should now or what i should not now, like I am some peon in the industry and you or any other forum owner are my "Bosses" who can let me be the best affiliate you or anyone else decides i can be by letting me in on important information or not....

Affiliate manager who are giving you [Micheal} information, but not the rest of us affiliates that same information is treating us like you are our boss and will hand feed us what we need to know, when they and you decide its an appropriate time and thats just plain bullshit.

I work for them just as you do, you are not my boss, and any information they give you, i should be privy to also.

Period.

Sorry if i **** anyone off with this post, but i am not a child, i do not work for you or anyone else, i work for myself and i advertise for these programs same as you, and for them to dole out information to just some of its affiliates and not ALL of us...is just discrimination and i will not take it nor should I or anyone else.

So please tell these program managers that are treating you better than myself or any other working affiliate that its time to treat us all as equals and enough of this kid ****.....i have a secret that you don't know crap.

pat

[MichaelCorfman]

What I decided I can do is to state in somewhat more detail information available on the www.londonaffiliateconference.com website and additional information that I do not view as confidential.

1. CAP is listed on the home page of the website and I have been told that the business relationship between CAP and iGB makes that appropriate whereas the business relationship between GPWA and iGB does not make that appropriate.

2. CAP is listed as an exhibitor at the conference.

3. Although the GPWA is not listed as an exhibitor we will in fact have a stand at the show.

4. Listed marketing partners include CAP, CAPTV and the GPWA among others.

This thread has gotten out of hand because folks want more information about the relationship between iGB and CAP. While I do know more than I have stated here, we all know that Alex is generally a good guy and tries to answer questions honestly in this forum.

Let's give him a chance to do that. He has only been back from his honeymoon for one business day.

Michael

[Betpartners]

Its confidential its as simple as that and therefore must remain so.

I have conversations all the time that if i ask remain confidential then i expect them to remain so, same with PM's Emails or whatever and anyone here would expect the same courtesy.

If i had a conversation with Michael or J Todd or Anthony etc and i asked them to keep it confidential and they then in future repeated that in the public domain then unfortuantly i could not trust that person in the future to keep a confidence.

If Michael has agreed to confidentiality then he is bound by it, failure to honour that agreement would mean that in future he would not be trusted again with information that could in fact help affiliates.

Also this is the real world and not everything can be transparent with immediate effect, sometimes information is best released when it can be most effective, to release info in to the public domain that is premature could have a detrimental effect.

But even that is irrelevant, once you enter in a confidential agreement you are bound honour your word.

As for everything else that has gone down in this thread all i can say is the next few months are going to be very disruptive indeed if what appears is going on is in fact going on.

A repeat public war between CAP and GPWA.

[pgaming]

Thanks Michael! I hold you in high regard can't see that changing anytime soon.

pgaming/shaddy

[giggles7p]

I guess i did not make my point clear.

My problem is that if Affiliate programs are making Micheal keep information confidential from the rest of us affiliates, then i do not want to work for them.

Micheal, or anyone else is not my boss, and program managers should not be making the decision that they will tell Micheal information and swear him to secrecy and withhold it from other affiliates, that is not their or Micheals decision to make for me.....i make my own decisions and if i am not respected enough by an affiliate program to keep me informed of Everthing that is important to my business, then i do not want to work for them.

[MichaelCorfman]

I guess i did not make my point clear.

My problem is that if Affiliate programs are making Micheal keep information confidential from the rest of us affiliates, then i do not want to work for them.

Micheal, or anyone else is not my boss, and program managers should not be making the decision that they will tell Micheal information and swear him to secrecy and withhold it from other affiliates, that is not their or Micheals decision to make for me.....i make my own decisions and if i am not respected enough by an affiliate program to keep me informed of Everthing that is important to my business, then i do not want to work for them.

I am not aware of any particular instances of conflicts on that front that would be relevant to your making decisions. There certainly are instances where a program might talk about the details of an issue with me as a trusted third party, but there are not many of those.

And sometimes I have information I do not consider to be substantiated in a way that I feel it appropriate to pass on. In that case that is not a situation of not being transparent in my opinion, but rather an issue of not passing on rumors before determining if I believe they are correct. For example, in the case of the cardspike issue last year, there were points in time where I understood information to be correct, but did not yet have appropriate evidence to back it up. In such a case I view it as being irresponsible to make statements before the proper evidence is in place.

Michael