Do you use bitcoin?

[MichaelCorfman]

With a number of affiliate programs offering to pay affiliate commissions in bitcoin, and a few programs using it as their only payment method, many affiliates have begun to use bitcoin, or are planning to use it.

How about you? Do you have a bitcoin wallet? Have you received payments into your wallet? Have you converted bitcoin to a fiat currency? Have you gone all the way and actually deposited bitcoin payments converted to a fiat currency into a regular bank account?

Besides voting in the poll, be sure to share your thoughts and experiences. A big thanks to Gooner who has already done that in this thread that he started: A Gooners Guide to Bitcoin ...

Michael

[eenzoo]

I was not really happy with the procedure. Casino payed out on time without problems.
Sold BTC to Skrill account via bitpanda.com - it took hours without an explanation about possible time frames, minimum fees.
Next time i´ll try BTC -> Kraken -> Bank account

[sweetbet]

I have a few bitcoin wallets, but I haven't found a bitcoin exchange service that I'm happy with. The poor level of customer support and the lack of communication when issues arise are quite discouraging.

[Dmitriy Joen]

No, but I plan to create a wallet. I do not trust.

[nsawins]

Yes. At first I hated the idea. However, now after 2 months it's our preferred choice of payment. It's so much easier than having to drive to the bank to cash foreign checks or check bank account constantly to see if wires have arrived. We get notified by text as soon as a bitcoin payment has arrived and then we transfer it to an exchange and then withdraw it to our bank. Takes anywhere from 20-30 minutes tops. Easy as it gets. Hopefully it stays that way.

[TheGooner]

Yes - we have successfully received a BTC payment and converted to "useful" currency.
But the process is multi-stepped, long-winded (especially if you want to get a good BTC conversion rate) and not business ready.

I still prefer to receive a bank-wire.

[MMM]

Have some BTC over time - so question for the experts: do you expect it to return to the 700 area or all the hacks will keep it in 600 and lower?

I understand that now one knows for sure, but just to hear the general opinion.

[TheGooner]

Well - it doesn't look like it's going to go up in the next few days.

You can see affiliates trying to unload their BTC today after being paid out ... and it's just driving the price down. There is just no depth in normal BTC trading - in EUR at least - around 2500 to 3000 per day.

So when we all get paid - it suddenly is tough to get a decent conversion - if I dumped my BTC in one trade I could drive the price down by 5-10 EUROs.

There is just much for for sale than people want to buy - the market is so thin outside China.

[MMM]

Then what we need to do is for you to hold your BTC till the 13-14th of next month. Unload them and we will all earn a little

[TheGooner]

You won't catch me holding BTC for a month - unless you're offering a price guarantee ...


Seriously though I should invoice these affiliate programs for the extra 4-5 hours a month it takes me each to convert these BTC at a fair rate. The bloody things dropped half a percent before I woke up this morning as was aware that they'd been paid out.

Now I have to slowly eek the things out over two to three days to get a rate matching the official "payout rate".

[star]

I have not used Bitcoin yet but plan to do it this month. Bitpanda.com looks good I think. An Austrian company.

[Sherlock]

Have some BTC over time - so question for the experts: do you expect it to return to the 700 area or all the hacks will keep it in 600 and lower?

I understand that now one knows for sure, but just to hear the general opinion.

Bitcoin will either go ovet 10K and later over 100K or it will bust. Probability of bust is higher than 5 figures reach.

There are many things changing, most of them positive for bitcoin/cryptocurrencies:

- ugly banking world with negative interest rates and overregulation, so bitcoin will be more attractive both as processor and storage of value
- problems of economy in China
- it is expected in approx 1 year to see some regulation, so hedge funds will be able to buy Bitcoins
....
- online gambling and btc as affiliate processor will help a bit too

I expect to cross 1K for sure in short or mid term. Technical necessity is - if bitcoin survives - at least double each 4 years because of halving. So the most conservative ROI of holding Bitcoin is ~ 25% p.a and 1200 USDper btc in 2020. But that is the lowest estimation ofc.

[Sherlock]

Well - it doesn't look like it's going to go up in the next few days.

You can see affiliates trying to unload their BTC today after being paid out ... and it's just driving the price down. There is just no depth in normal BTC trading - in EUR at least - around 2500 to 3000 per day.

So when we all get paid - it suddenly is tough to get a decent conversion - if I dumped my BTC in one trade I could drive the price down by 5-10 EUROs.

There is just much for for sale than people want to buy - the market is so thin outside China.

Bitcoin price is almost always set at CNY<->BTC market. Non Chinese world is just following. The liquidity in Chine is much higher, so even if one moves price elsewhere, the arbitrage players will level it up quickly.

[hublot]

Bitcoin price is almost always set at CNY<->BTC market. Non Chinese world is just following. The liquidity in Chine is much higher, so even if one moves price elsewhere, the arbitrage players will level it up quickly.

This....

Affiliate's selling their bitcoin is not moving the market.... its china....

[TheGooner]

This....

Affiliate's selling their bitcoin is not moving the market.... its china....

While you are correct that corrections will be made across currency over the course of the day ...
Each market is a seperate entity - and it takes less than 50 BTC to drive down the price of BTC by 3-5 EUR in the EUR denominated market - and about the same in any single exchange in USD.

Affiliates may not be able to permanently move the market - but they can certainly negatively wiggle it in non-CNY currencies.

[Sherlock]

All that affiliates can do is - if they are both big and stupid enough - to click on sell all their double or tripple digit bitcoins at once. Then yes, they will "move the market down" and throw away couple of hundreds or thousands USD. But all markets are interconnected by traders that will spot this and rebalance. I do not believe that even all affiliates together paid by US programs do not have the firepower (yet) to move the market. Chninese daily liquidity is over 1M btc (vast majority are leveraged speculations).

Affiliates are vital fundamental part of bitcoin economy, but no fundament is moving the market directly. It is the leveraged and CNY instruments that do that. After Bitfinex hack the Chinese exchanges are even more influental.

[TheGooner]

All I am saying is that BTC - for all the talk and all the hype about the new world currency - is thinly traded outside China - and is not suitable for for even medium sized business payments unless you want Chinese Yuan.

Just send me a bloody bank wire.

[Sherlock]

As I said before. I easily and quickly traded EUR to tripple digits of btc at market level (selling 0.000-20 btc at once). I can not imagine that the reverse exchange is more troublesome. Only reason why someone can have bigger problems than me at similar exchange is that I am quite skilled trader from sportsbetting. Or that "medium sized business" needs to exchange at least X000 btc at once.

Make an account at Betfair or Pinnacle and practice! I can provide you affiliate link

[MMM]

Sherlock,

Are you comfortable holding big amount of BTC? Big amount I mean a high % of your overall holdings, let's say 10% and higher.

[Sherlock]

Let's start with the fact that I am not comfortable with the state of most economics. And much more with the state of currencies and monetary policies of all world banks. It is obvious that we are sitting on bubble that will bust. I want to protect my assets, because I have been working hard for 10+ years and after this gambling rally is over I would prefer to have the comfort I have for me and my close people.

So what are options of investment today, if not money with negative interest rate or cash, where flash hyperinflation is probably inevitable in near or long term future?

Shares and bonds of companies that have minimal returns correlated with low interest rate set by central banks and where I have just minimal information what is goin on? Bonds of governments that are broke? Investment into properties, where prices are driven up to the same bubble by artifical levels of mortgages?

There are not many options. I think gold should be fine, I have some, will buy more. But what then? Bitcoin. Bitcoin is great in many ways, so it is a win-win..-win. Of course it is a risky asset.

But it is totally unseizable and anonymous when I want.
It has a high expected ROI (although the risk of bust is still great).
It is defacto tax free (tax laws will not affect direct btc deals and I am already paying some people in btc for example).
And most importantly, it is a direct hedge to holding cash or cash-based instruments. If there is something bad going to happen to cash (and USD is not separated to other major currencies), everyone will be affected), I believe then cryptocurrencies will hold much more trust than fiat money and it will be some cryptocurrency that will become the world reserve currency.
It is possible I am wrong and economy came to the stage of endless zero inflation, zero interest rates and that there will be a new communism, where central banks will buy whole world with money they created and they will be able to manage that world, scarcity, prices etc. Then I will be fine with my cash. Even without doom scenario BTC should appreciate at level that no other investment offers.

I was pretty aggressive, invested over 10% as you suggest. It already appreciated a lot. I am "fine" if it busts. It is a mental thing too. It is important to give money into things one believes. From the first second I realized that bitcoin exists, I felt that this is the next part of puzzle of economy (of course of the pure evil capitalist economy, not a leftist wet dream of bitcoiners). Bitcoin is needed by economy. What is happening in gambling now is exactly what will happen elsewhere in near future. Bitcoin is the circumvent tool.