GP & eCOGRA...BS

[joeyl]

That does'nt answer who should talk to who to sort this out.

I know all about the conflict of interest thing.

Berating those that believe in this setup won't solve out anything.

It's complicated, and we don't know what we're on about anyway will be the reply.

So the circle's complete, everyone's right, but no one's happy.

[Former Member 14]

It's complicated, and we don't know what we're on about anyway will be the reply.

The reason it's complicated is because only a handful of people have the balls to say what they think.

And it's these people who, despite all the sh#t they wear for the majority, keep fighting for a honest and level field for all. Because the majority don't have the balls to follow suit or at least acknowledge their support; least not in public anyway.

There, I've said it...


Cheers



Dave

[bb1web]

What calculation was used to determine the cost-association of player-to-buyout? There are several possibilities and I am fairly confident that one of these were used:

I'm betting NOT figured into the calculations was all the money lost due to players seeing blacklisted on aff websites, therefore choosing to stop playing at the GP brands.

You know that had to effect the player value they are using.


Something that would not have ever been an issue had GP done things the right way, so saying that affs are guilty of causing the player values to be less is totally incorrect.

but then again, that's not a big deal in light of the mess. If people were to even get a fair buyout on the actual numbers (including referspot) it will be a near miracle.

[pgaming]

This is not speculation but two facts,
1. Grand Prive ripped off affiliates.
2. Microgaming sat back and watched it happened. An accessory to the crime and doing nothing tells me Microgaming is all in for the con job.

eCogra well whatever, never can tell what is going through their heads.

So why continue to debate the issue? Take the words and act whichever way you know how. I will be dammed if GP gets away with this BS. Either pay up or wither away and be gone forever.

Swear I just might fly over there with camera in tow. While I am in the area maybe MG will be my next stop. I am so tired of these gangsters.

JMO

greek39

[GamTrak]

I just got this and now I have to ask my bank to REFUSE payment (and why) because I'm NOT taking this amount you crooks!

Dear Robin xxxxxx-xxxxxxxx

Herewith confirmation of the full and final payment of $xxx.00 as audited by e-Cogra for the Grand Privé Affiliate commission due to you.

Please look out for incoming funds within 3-5 working days from today. Payment has been made to the Preferred Method of payment provided to Ecogra.

Thank you for your patience in this regard.

Kind regards

Grand Privé Management

I was told by eCOGRA that I would have a chance to tell GP why I would not take this payment and that GP would contact me for banking details and now they DO NOT give me the opportunity to refuse payment and sending a fraction of what I feel I earned to the bank on file?

All of them (eCOGRA & Grand Prive) are either crooks or incompetent based on the definations below!

Main Entry: in·com·pe·tent
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)in-ˈkäm-pə-tənt\

1 : not legally qualified
2 : inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3 a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action
b : unable to function properly

— incompetent noun
— in·com·pe·tent·ly adverb

[GamTrak]

This is not speculation but two facts,
1. Grand Prive ripped off affiliates.
2. Microgaming sat back and watched it happened. An accessory to the crime and doing nothing tells me Microgaming is all in for the con job.

eCogra well whatever, never can tell what is going through their heads.

So why continue to debate the issue? Take the words and act whichever way you know how. I will be dammed if GP gets away with this BS. Either pay up or wither away and be gone forever.

Swear I just might fly over there with camera in tow. While I am in the area maybe MG will be my next stop. I am so tired of these gangsters.

JMO

greek39

I'd be happy to visit them as well so please let me go too!

[nitro]

Swear I just might fly over there with camera in tow. While I am in the area maybe MG will be my next stop. I am so tired of these gangsters.

GP should be not the target when something like that happens - the issue would be solved pretty quickly if the rest of the casinos in the software network would be made COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBLE and treated appriopriately. It would be in the best interest of the software providers then making sure that everyone is paid and it would happen pretty quickly - the only problem is that it isn't possible to start this kind of process with 3-4 people.

[pgaming]

To a certain extent I agree. I believe tackling the issue at the source being MG would likely be productive IMO.

I'd be happy to visit them as well so please let me go too!

The way I see it vast numbers of affiliates attend conferences. Why not get a group plan and hold an affiliate conference across the street from the offices of GP or MG. Bring the lawn chairs, some picket signs, 50 dozen eggs, video equipment, and Michael Moore on location lol.

Secondly GP reliance on the web is their Achilles heel. We have truck loads of talented people and should be no problem making their web existence miserable. I know they are a developing a payment processor and speculate they just might jump into proprietary software.

For those who were offered settlements reject it if you can afford it.

While doing all this remember you have been robbed and kicked in the head.

And WTG Gamtrak for rejecting the payment its blood money.


greek39

[Dominique]

I'm betting NOT figured into the calculations was all the money lost due to players seeing blacklisted on aff websites, therefore choosing to stop playing at the GP brands.

You know that had to effect the player value they are using.

These would likely be new players - I strongly doubt that loyal players who have played there for years (the referspot legacy players in question here) would suddenly all stop playing. More likely than not they have not researched the casino in years and are not aware of blacklists, and even if they were aware, they have been happy there for years and are unlikely to take a risk and go elsewhere.

So I don't think that affects the specific players in question.

[bonustreak]

I have to call my bank and have it refused as well because I will owe for the damn wire fee!! Talk about insulting!!

Herewith confirmation of the full and final payment of $7.00 as audited by e-Cogra for the Grand Privé Affiliate commission due to you.

Please look out for incoming funds within 3-5 working days from today.

Thank you for your patience in this regard.

Kind regards
Grand Privé Management

[Caruso]

Volume four:

http://www.hundredpercentgambling.co...and-ecogra.htm

I'll be able to write The Prand Privè Memoires one day.

[GamTrak]

Volume four:

http://www.hundredpercentgambling.co...and-ecogra.htm

I'll be able to write The Prand Privè Memoires one day.

Nice article Caruso,

May I suggest that you use the [target="_blank"] before the [href] so that a new window is opened when a link is clicked and the reader stays at your site? (example: "a target="_blank" href="http://www.xxx")

I'm not sure if you omit that for a reason or not, but wanted to make you aware of it so I hope you don't mind. I've seen enough of the eCOGRA site and thinking of removing the fake a$$ eCOGRA seal soon.


===============================================

This is from the article:

Certainly, their subsequent reaction does determine their complicity. Am I being too hard on them? Will Microgaming pull the license, and will eCOGRA insist their "play it safe" seals be removed?

Possibly telling is a reaction from self-proclaimed player watchdog Bryan "Casinomeister" Bailey to the situation:

24th February 2010, 11:12 AM

It's pretty much clear to me that the operators of Grand Prive are the sole offenders in this unprecedented eff-up. I don't see how eCOGRA or MGS can be thrown into the same blame pit.

Affiliate marketing is just that - it's marketing. I know this won't sit well with a lot of webmasters but it's your own damn fault for promoting a casino group that has been in and out of the rogue pit for years. What did you expect? An honest deal? C'mon - quit your whining and move on.

As for eCOGRA giving webmasters the shaft - think again. It was eCOGRA that agreed to conduct this audit in the interest of getting aggrieved affiliates paid - they performed this audit as agreed by both parties (GP and eCOGRA) and on the surface, the "fair settlement for claimants" was IMO fair.

BUT - as it's been surmised - were they given all of the data? A number of you have it pretty much figured out, and by eCOGRA's recent statement - read between the lines. It's over. GP will not return to this issue.

These are uncharted waters and the landscape can change with each new issue. This is the first time eCOGRA has audited an affiliate program and I believe will be the last time they ever volunteer to stick their necks out for the affiliate folk. Just an observation.

eCOGRA is not your enemy. eCOGRA is primarily set up to deal with player issues. There has always been a debate about marketing issues vs player issues and how they are intertwined, but the bottom line is that eCOGRA was never set up for dealing with the marketing side of the picture. Only recently are they approving affiliate programs. I'm sure it would be a different situation altogether if Fortune Affiliates, Referback, or another eCOGRA accredited aff program attempted to do what GP did.

Further: MGS is taking this seriously. Lest we forget. It was reported that all GP affiliates who had active players and were earners were paid when the aff program was closed. Whether this is true or not - who knows? But was MGS required to check and double check this when no one presented them an official complaint? An official complaint is a written grievance presented to their corporate office; it's not complaining anonymously on a public message board (if the shoe fits, wear it). I'm just tossing that into the ring. Don't forget, this is not a player issue - it's marketing and probably would not get the same level of attention that a serious player complaint would get.

Affiliates that promote operations that are mismanaged, or have flaky operators should ask themselves this: why are these worthy of promotion? What did you expect?


One can dwell on the fairness of accusing people who have been mistreated as "whining"; on the assertion that the eCOGRA audit-that-wasn't-an-audit was in fact "fair"; that eCOGRA is not to blame for sheer lack of focus; and that Microgaming is guiltless because noone has actually spoken to them about it, when in truth Microgaming has in fact specifically ducked or ignored all attempts to raise the matter with them - more on this in a later article.

=====================================

This part of the article is priceless and very telling when it comes to just how much 'help' Bailey will be for affiliates!

I thought casinomeister was stepping his foot in the 'affiliate' ring with his webmaster section blah blah blah.

I guess because Grand Prive was on the CasinoGod's table/scroll for years we are banished to ScrewYouVille! He is clearly on some bull$hit as well as the others!

[Caruso]

the [target="_blank"] before the [href] so that a new window is opened when a link is clicked and the reader stays at your site? (example: "a target="_blank" href="http://www.xxx")

I'm not sure if you omit that for a reason or not, but wanted to make you aware of it so I hope you don't mind.

I can't make up my mind about that. I've tried it, binned it, tried it, binned it etc ad inf.

In the end I couldn't decide, and stopped bothering. I've no idea what, if any, concensus there is on the practice.

It does catch me out occasionally. I'll reread an article, click on a link, get interested, click something on the new page...then a few minutes later think, WTF did my site go?

[casinobonusguy]

I have to call my bank and have it refused as well because I will owe for the damn wire fee!! Talk about insulting!!

IMO $7.00 is worst than NOTHING what a slap in the face.I tend to agree we may have to put the squeeze on Microgaming. Before thsi fiasco started if a new casino sent us email and said they are microgaming that was good enough for us,Not anymore though .

[bonustreak]

Still confused on why this thread leads to personal attacks and flaming when it should be about Grand Prive and what to do about them!! Calling others names and insulting them does not help IMO.

[Former Member 14]

Still confused on why this thread leads to personal attacks and flaming when it should be about Grand Prive and what to do about them!! Calling others names and insulting them does not help IMO.

And people wonder why these threads dissolve into issues that don't get sorted.

We're supposed to be supportive of each other.

Are we not all fighting the fight to obtain a common goal, a fair and just outcome. In turn an equal and level playing field for all?

Personal attacks undermined the camaraderie of what IMHO the GPWA should stand for.

I understand that emotions are high.

But focusing anger onto another GPWA member because you may have misinterpreted or misunderstood what they've said is not part of the solution to the GP crisis. It only forms another part of the problem.

And we don't need anymore problems, do we...



Cheers



Dave

[GamTrak]

Still confused on why this thread leads to personal attacks and flaming when it should be about Grand Prive and what to do about them!! Calling others names and insulting them does not help IMO.

Tell that to your buddy that ALLOWED GamTrak to get 'personally attacked' at Casinomeister on MORE than one occassion. Do I need to provide links for you? It's best YOU stay out of it Christine. Thanks!

[arkyt]

We're supposed to be supportive of each other.

Are we not all fighting the fight to obtain a common goal, a fair and just outcome. In turn an equal and level playing field for all?

Only few of us want a level playing field ... make no doubt about it, those who have the highest thrones wish for nothing more than to maintain their seats at the table.

Additionally, the majority of affiliates are only looking out for numero uno and thats why we never see positive change for the whole. For one reason or another they can not get a grasp the concept that this is their workplace and that they really should be more concerned with what goes on around them instead of simply being consumed with their own prosperity.

I've been preaching this crap for years and to my surprise I'm always slapped in the face - mostly by those who are sitting on the high thrones. Maybe one day people will wake up and smell the coffee - maybe it will be too late and their workplace will be completely gone.

Back on topic - RE that $7 wire transfer - I now a lot of banks charge $10-$30 for incoming transfers - if yours does theres a likely hood youre going to lose money on that - WOW - that is a slap in the face!

[universal4]

Not only would recieving a $7 wire be a disgusting slap in the face, but in my case since my bank charges me $15 for incoming wires I would lose more than 100% of the amount in fees so getting that payment would COST ME $8.00

Rick
Universal4

[bonustreak]

Oh I am out of it trust me I have no time for flame wars! My point is this thread is at the point where it is totally useless. We should all be sticking together and finding a solution not picking fights with each other, this should be about Grand Prive and how they screwed affiliates NOT about who did what to whom or who can **** the farthest.

I am done with this thread it is useless IMO so if you have a page and you would like to link up with our blacklisted page(xxhttp://www.microgamingbonusstreak.com/GrandPriveBlacklisted.html)please send me a pm..