Is the joining together of operators and affiliate programs good for affiliates?

[wagerprofits]

Betpartners

Youth Cup is better than nothing and thi season you guys will not see any silver wear so I can live with that.

As for why today, simple we are a busines like any other we have sit down eand evaluate every decision we make, it is not just the case of sending an email a lot more to it than that, if you looked at Wager profits site on Monday you would have seen that the CAP and PAP seals had removed then.

The PR had been drafted a while ago like many things it is about timing......

As for other operators will they leave I have no idea, I also have no idea what CAP plan to do in the future to try and regain some trust, but the idea to leave feels morally right, i think it would be hard for me to be part of GAP or what everthe name is going to be if I carried the CAP and PAP seal.

Also if you cheack out the Wager Profits site you will see that we are also carrying a new seal we are carry three.

I feel that all three of the seals are associated with honesty, integrity and reliability, and each of the companies are ran by a solid management team, that has both the affiliates and the operators interests in mind, rather than building their personal bank balances.

Shaun

Youth cup, bloody youth cup, is that the best you can do

I reckon its firming up Shaun, there is already a page put up on the net asking for agenda suggestions but only from affiliate programs, not affiliates.

Invites have been sent to all programs so to me this is a very serious proposition.

In addition you have left CAP and congratulations on that brave decision btw but the thread has not been removed from CAP and a response there is interesting albeit very sarcastic in stating that your withdrawal from CAP has nothing to do with this new GAP thing.

Now dont jump down my throat Shaun on this but i expect more programs to leave shortly and the questions will be asked why now?

A coincidence of timing? why not last week? or when this whole thing exploded and it was obvious what CAP had done.

Yes mate this GAP thing is firming up and is becoming a reality and if as it mission statement says this is for everyone why are no affiliates invited to give agenda suggestions, why have no affiliates been invited to the discussion.

And it is easy to locate affiliates, there here.

[Betpartners]

i wanted to click thanks for the part about the seals but could not because of your lame attempt at glorifying in a youth cup, would simply demean the thanks.

So i will say thanks for the response in relation to the seals, but the thanks is just for that part.

[Nandakishore]

I have voted NEUTRAL because only after we know more about the set up of such an organization and their declared objectives, it will be possible to judge whether we as affiliates can benefit from it. If only affiliate programs come together then they will be bound to focus on their interest which will not necessarily cover interests of the affiliates.

It is interesting to note that the Rewards Affiliates are not in it.

[wagerprofits]

Go on click thanks you know you want to.....


Shaun


5th March 2009 a legendary day
Tottenham Hotspur 1-3 Arsenal

i wanted to click thanks for the part about the seals but could not because of your lame attempt at glorifying in a youth cup, would simply demean the thanks.

So i will say thanks for the response in relation to the seals, but the thanks is just for that part.

[mojo]

It is interesting to note that the Rewards Affiliates are not in it.

It is my understanding that Rewards is definatly in it. I saw them on the list.

Oh and ok kids! You are confuddling me with this canada sports stuff!!

[Captain]

I voted not sure for now. I will wait to hear the full details to make a decision.

[MichaelCorfman]

Personally, I support the industry working together to the greatest extent possible when the objective is to raise ethical standards. So I could see constructive work being done on a code of conduct with input from various perspectives.

I think actual certification is a substantially more complex issue, and am not sure that it could actually be done well by a committee-driven organization.

In terms of the concern represented in this thread for an organization like the GPWA, I personally have no significant concern at all on that front. The fees the GPWA charges sponsors are very reasonable in relation to the value of the services provided and the cost of providing those services. The bottom line is that I firmly believe affiliate programs could not independently provide the services we provide at a lower cost to themselves. And when you couple that with the fact that affiliates in general would not be thrilled with affiliate forums controlled by affiliate programs, I think such an approach would be fundamentally doomed from the start.

Michael

[TheGooner]

I work with quality partners such as bet365, Ladbrokes, PaddyPower, BoyleSports, Interwetten, Eurobet etc etc. Quality companies that know how to do business fairly and openly. I'm comfortable that the normal business processes of competition will mean that the best programs and honest affilaites will continue to do business on fair and agreeable basis.

I'm comfortable that if they want to be part of this initiative - to sit down and discuss amoungst their peers how to best manage their internet business going forward then they are entitled to do so.

Just as we affiliates meet and discuss at conferences and at the GPWA et al. There is nothing untoward in our motives either.

I do not believe that a collection of 65 gaming operators are going to try and use a public spotlight to run some sort of shadowy cartel and artificially ratchet affiliate terms in an unfair manner.

(If that was the case then we'd hear NOTHING of this venture at all)

-----------------------------------

However, as I've said - I can see that the gravy train of "sponsorship / certification" might dry up - and affiliate Portals will have to diversify and generate additional value streams in order to survive.

Mind you I've always been amazed at the largesse spent in affiliate portals with glossy colour magazines, global airmail, multiple conferences at glitzy locations, etc, etc , etc. Someone had to be paying ... who was it? Well we all know now - and in this regard I feel that the organisation of programs (potentially in their own location) will have a marked affect on the gaming landscape - on the fringe and periphial edges of the businesses.

Be it conference organisation, magazine producing, even affiliate communications, I can see how an organisation of 60+ programs will be able to make significant savings if they combine their efforts and produce a joint platform. However - competition will still mean that if the GPWA (and suchlike) can produce tangible profitable returns then they will continue to be supported.

And profit producing affiliates at the coal face will continue to be in demand ...

[mojo]

Personally, I support the industry working together to the greatest extent possible when the objective is to raise ethical standards. So I could see constructive work being done on a code of conduct with input from various perspectives.

I think actual certification is a substantially more complex issue, and am not sure that it could actually be done well by a committee-driven organization.

In terms of the concern represented in this thread for an organization like the GPWA, I personally have no significant concern at all on that front. The fees the GPWA charges sponsors are very reasonable in relation to the value of the services provided and the cost of providing those services. The bottom line is that I firmly believe affiliate programs could not independently provide the services we provide at a lower cost to themselves. And when you couple that with the fact that affiliates in general would not be thrilled with affiliate forums controlled by affiliate programs, I think such an approach would be fundamentally doomed from the start.

Michael

From the first post on this, I also had no concerns for the GPWA. I did not see it as taking all affiliates away from anyone. Quite the contrary. I see it as simply another voice in the affiliate community that we so badly need.

But for the actions of CAP this probably would not have happened.

Since it did however, this should never be seen as competion to other boards. Frankly, that is what I am seeing. There is fear among us. I believe this new aff program collaboration is not a sinister entity that some believe it is.

We have yet to see what the affiliate programs will come up with. There is a discussion of a fair committee to oversee it. A forum of affiliate programs that is NOT controlled by the affiliate programs. What is wrong with that?

My point here is that it should not affect the gpwa or any other existing board and we should not view it that way. What we need is balance of power so that there is no room for corruption that is fueled by too much power alloted to anyone in the future.

[wagerprofits]

Michael

I agree with you 100% I see huge value in the GPWA likewise with other associations such as PAL, AGD.

If the us as operators do move ahead with GAP then i feel very strong that it shoud create so form of ethical code of conduct, this could be created by having 3 people from each side of the fence.

But CAC will shed a lot more light on what ois going to happen.


Shaun

Personally, I support the industry working together to the greatest extent possible when the objective is to raise ethical standards. So I could see constructive work being done on a code of conduct with input from various perspectives.

I think actual certification is a substantially more complex issue, and am not sure that it could actually be done well by a committee-driven organization.

In terms of the concern represented in this thread for an organization like the GPWA, I personally have no significant concern at all on that front. The fees the GPWA charges sponsors are very reasonable in relation to the value of the services provided and the cost of providing those services. The bottom line is that I firmly believe affiliate programs could not independently provide the services we provide at a lower cost to themselves. And when you couple that with the fact that affiliates in general would not be thrilled with affiliate forums controlled by affiliate programs, I think such an approach would be fundamentally doomed from the start.

Michael

[pgaming]

Sticking my head out and simply saying this is a good thing. As to why, well... no real explanation. It just feels good!

greek39

[Betpartners]

I wish i had the same confidence or even open mind on this subject as some of you do, but i am very pessimistic, maybe its the lack of affiliate managers coming on here giving their opinions, maybe it is the perceived lack of openness i don't know, maybe it is just my negativity.

But the whole idea just don't sit right with me.

I will now wait until after CAC to see the reports as i won't be attending CAC which is a shame and give my thoughts unless in the meantime more info comes to light.

So i will try and curtail my rants on this subject for now, but make no promises

Anyway busy fending off delusional Gooners for the time being

[pgaming]

I wish i had the same confidence or even open mind on this subject as some of you do, but i am very pessimistic, maybe its the lack of affiliate managers coming on here giving their opinions, maybe it is the perceived lack of openness i don't know, maybe it is just my negativity.

But the whole idea just don't sit right with me.

I will now wait until after CAC to see the reports as i won't be attending CAC which is a shame and give my thoughts unless in the meantime more info comes to light.

So i will try and curtail my rants on this subject for now, but make no promises

Anyway busy fending off delusional Gooners for the time being

If I be wrong BP throw some flames my way lol.

greek39

[kwblue]

This is my first comment, but I have followed what has been said in the thread. I agree with a number of people in the thread and my perspective is this:

1. (Speaking in regards to AGD) - I am not worried about competition. Our goal is to partner with those in the industry. Whether 'GAP' becomes a new entity or works with a(n) existing forum(s), AGD will work with the group in any way that makes ethical sense.

2. Until I know specifics, it is a discussion without direction. There are too many unknowns here for me to form an opinion.


I am interested in the Affiliate Manager's perspectives on the state of the industry and how it could be made better. I think many of their ideas are what help us drive our businesses. 80-90% of the affiliate managers I have dealt with over the last 4 years are quality people who have helped me grow as a marketer.

Once they have their meeting, I hope that the affiliate community will be made aware of the objectives so that we may discuss the issue with 'all of the cards on the table.'

[bonustreak]

I am on the not sure side for now I need to watch how things play out before I decide.

I am interested in the Affiliate Manager's perspectives on the state of the industry and how it could be made better. I think many of their ideas are what help us drive our businesses. 80-90% of the affiliate managers I have dealt with over the last 4 years are quality people who have helped me grow as a marketer.

Exactly

[republican]

I am pretty sure this has to do with the trade shows (CAP/CAC) and the prices associated. Surely there is a more cost effective way for affiliate managers to be able to meet their affiliates!

After what happened in London, and with CAP putting on a show (Spring Break) the exact dates as CAC - along with promoting their own show 30 days later in the same city I can see the gaming companies being very mad. All this has done is split the affiliates up and produced LESS affiliates at each show while the prices still stay the same or higher??

I am not an operator but I have spoken to many of my AM's who are going to the show and they ALL say the same thing.

I am not sure about GPWA shows. I hear great things about them though!

[casinobonusguy]

I Have some very good programs that i have been in business with for many years.They send me birthday gifts , call me on regular basis to catch up and pay me every month for my hard work.All my programs are on this list of 65 programs.

I trust these guys and I would never think my revshare partners would be considering burning down the bridges and trying to screw us over.
I think they are probably thinking of ways to be more cost effective and still have In- person relationships with us.

I would rather see them all pool together their conference money and do their own event and maybe help some affiliates who can't afford it attend an event .If they host it in their own country and when you Factor in their travel budgets , I am sure they probably can put us up in 5 star hotels too lol.

[Betpartners]

I Have some very good programs that i have been in business with for many years.They send me birthday gifts , call me on regular basis to catch up and pay me every month for my hard work.All my programs are on this list of 65 programs.

I trust these guys and I would never think my revshare partners would be considering burning down the bridges and trying to screw us over.
I think they are probably thinking of ways to be more cost effective and still have In- person relationships with us.

I would rather see them all pool together their conference money and do their own event and maybe help some affiliates who can't afford it attend an event .If they host it in their own country and when you Factor in their travel budgets , I am sure they probably can put us up in 5 star hotels too lol.

And none of these 65 have ever given poor service?

I get on great with my AM also though after my opposition on here i may not get a birthday present

But i am prepared to bet that there are affiliates on here that dont have such great experience with some of the programs on the list

I bet that not all 65 offer a great customer service with quick responses to communication, in fact i would say the majority let themselves down in this area.

I would also bet that those that bring in more money for the programs get better treatment than those that dont

My point is ones experience is subjective and that while one affiliate may have a great experience another one may not

Communication from AM's is on a whole poor, that is the one thing that bugs me, always has and it is no different with this, i mean we are really being kept in the loop here aint we.

But all that is beside the point anyway, when you have the police policing the police abuse happens no matter the initial intention.

My opposition to this is firming up by the second.

[wagerprofits]

BetPartners

I think you have raised a couple of good points, but if this group is to be formed and I am lucky enough to play some part in the formation of I will do my best to ensure that operators that are true rogues are not part of it, I think it is important to state that just becuase your name is on the list is does not mean you are going to be let in.

Also as you joined Wager Profits i will be sending you a birthday present I hav ejust perchased it as well............................Hope you like the Arsenal home shirt.

Shaun

And none of these 65 have ever given poor service?

I get on great with my AM also though after my opposition on here i may not get a birthday present

But i am prepared to bet that there are affiliates on here that dont have such great experience with some of the programs on the list

I bet that not all 65 offer a great customer service with quick responses to communication, in fact i would say the majority let themselves down in this area.

I would also bet that those that bring in more money for the programs get better treatment than those that dont

My point is ones experience is subjective and that while one affiliate may have a great experience another one may not

Communication from AM's is on a whole poor, that is the one thing that bugs me, always has and it is no different with this, i mean we are really being kept in the loop here aint we.

But all that is beside the point anyway, when you have the police policing the police abuse happens no matter the initial intention.

My opposition to this is firming up by the second.

[Betpartners]

Also as you joined Wager Profits i will be sending you a birthday present I hav ejust perchased it as well............................Hope you like the Arsenal home shirt.

Shaun

See its started already, i open my mouth and the abuse and underhanded tricks begin, my day has been ruined now