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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokerNations View Post
    Lou has shown no remorse for his actions or involvement in this whole affair. All he's done is point fingers at everyone else, blaming them for his problems.

    He refuses to accept responsibility, and doesn't even seem to understand or care about the harm he inflicted upon this industry. He just wants sympathy and support in getting his cash cow back.


    I'm not saying Warren is any better, I believe all three partners are to blame for this fiasco. But put yourself in Warrens shoes. Lou goes off on these crazy public tirades that are really bad for the company.

    If you ran a company and one of your partners was acting like that, you'd make efforts to silence them and push them out as well. You wouldn't just sit idly by while they continued to make your business look even worse.



    I agree that Warren is guilty just like Lou. But to say that Lou is "telling the truth here" is naive in my opinion. Lou blows everything out of proportion in an attempt to make others look worse and himself look better.

    Back when GPWA and APCW were trying to find out the truth, Lou was callilng them the most vile, wretched people on the planet, comparing them to Hitler, etc.

    Then when he's ousted from CAP they obviously prevent him from accessing a company email account. That makes perfect sense to me. So he goes and twists the wordings and situation to try and tug at heartstrings and get sympathy.

    He claims they "hijacked" his email accounts, which is far from an accurate portrayal. He complains that this was the primary method to keep in touch with doctors, his childrens school, etc.

    That is just a load of exgaggerated crud, Lous attempt to make what is happening to him look worse than it is. Are we to believe he can't use a phone to contact doctors and his childrens school? Does he not have an email that isn't attached to CAP?
    Well said...

    I feel that although Warren and Lou might be equally responsible for any wrong doings in the past, as partners, I give Warren credit for finally doing what a lot of us wanted to see most. Publically coming clean, taking responsibility for what's already happened, and apologizing. Warren didn't blame the past on everyone else. He said he was wrong, and was sorry.

    I realize "I'm sorry" doesn't make everything just magically fine. But this is something Lou STILL has not done. Lou does nothing but point fingers and make himself out to always be the victim. That disgusts me.

    At least Warren is making steps in the right direction, and I give him kudos for that. Lou should try letting go of some of his ego, stop talking so much, stop blaming everyone else for everything that goes wrong in his life and step up to the plate and show that he's taking responsibility for his part at least.

    I'd be a lot more inclined to recognize that Lou makes mistakes and is only human like the rest of us, if he'd actually come clean and show he actually has remorse for his part. Warren has done this.

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  3. #62
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    Actually, I thought Lou posted a statement before Warren did.

    Warrens was worded a bit better though...

    Rick
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  5. #63
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    I think there is a huge Lesson for Affiliates in what has been exposed here in Lou and Warrens drama.

    The lesson is this:
    Affiliates you are on your own.
    Just because someone has a good looking website/forum and posts nicey nice things all the time... Does not make them a good person, a person to trust or a person you would want to do business with.

    Affiliates you are on your own, don't ever forget that.

    Until the casinos decide to actually partner with affiliates instead of treating them like adversary's. There are going to be a lot of folks in this Biz that make their money squeezing affiliates.

    So fellow Affiliates please take the lessons that Lou and Warren have taught us to heart.

    Don't be so trusting...
    Last edited by lots0; 26 February 2009 at 1:52 pm.

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  7. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daera View Post
    Well said...

    I feel that although Warren and Lou might be equally responsible for any wrong doings in the past, as partners, I give Warren credit for finally doing what a lot of us wanted to see most. Publically coming clean, taking responsibility for what's already happened, and apologizing. Warren didn't blame the past on everyone else. He said he was wrong, and was sorry.

    I realize "I'm sorry" doesn't make everything just magically fine. But this is something Lou STILL has not done. Lou does nothing but point fingers and make himself out to always be the victim. That disgusts me.

    At least Warren is making steps in the right direction, and I give him kudos for that. Lou should try letting go of some of his ego, stop talking so much, stop blaming everyone else for everything that goes wrong in his life and step up to the plate and show that he's taking responsibility for his part at least.

    I'd be a lot more inclined to recognize that Lou makes mistakes and is only human like the rest of us, if he'd actually come clean and show he actually has remorse for his part. Warren has done this.
    Hmmmm

    I told my wife sorry after I got caught cheating. Is everything ok? Would I be sorry if I got away with it ?

    I have 2 million in the bank, but people being paid late? I think this stinks bad.
    "CasinoJack"


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  9. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by greek39 View Post
    In light of recent events, thought I would have more to say. Clearly many deceit people have been given the shaft and the saga will likely continue. I do not see the full disclosure I was hoping for. The casinos listed a just a mere glimpse into some properties CAP/owners have a financial interest in. I was hoping to see them all. I suppose rather me going done the road of proof this, that, and the other thing I will remain reserved. Maybe in a year’s time the Affiliate’s community radar will pick them up.

    The theme is until there such replacement for Warren and Lou CAP IMO is rogue. Until then CAP will continue to spiral downwards into the pit of Sh**. Over the last couple of years I think the Mercy jar was slowly emptied, I share no sympathy or optimism.

    Along with DB sales, conflicts of interest, and using members as pawns in very huge chess game I will be very surprised if anyone sticks with them. But I know there will be a few die hards readily available to make that sacrifice. And some will play along for the betterment of their wallet size, the means always justifies the end. And some will just be content on being victims. But oh well I suppose the world is not a perfect place.

    Warren/Lou all I have to say good luck with the Cattle Drive. Herd them up!

    greek39
    Good thoughts....just as it was mine! Saved me of the typing. Thanks.

  10. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by casinojack View Post
    Hmmmm

    I told my wife sorry after I got caught cheating. Is everything ok? Would I be sorry if I got away with it ?

    I have 2 million in the bank, but people being paid late? I think this stinks bad.
    I agree with you 100% casinojack.

    Like I said in my post, I'm sorry doesn't make everything ok.

    I realize "I'm sorry" doesn't make everything just magically fine.
    To me, I feel more harmed and disrespected when someone isn't even taking responsibility for what they've done, not apologizing or acknowledging their personal role in a bad situation. Things might not ever be ok again, but I am more apt to forgive someone that comes clean then one that continues in denial mode.

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  12. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    Actually, I thought Lou posted a statement before Warren did.

    Warrens was worded a bit better though...

    Rick
    Universal4
    Hi Rick,

    You're right, Lou did post a statement first. He posted a lot more then just a statement actually. But the words in his statement and posts are all words blaming everyone else but himself for what's going on now. If someone is going to have any chance of earning their trust back, they have to own up to what they've done to lose that trust and acknowledge that they realize the error of their ways. That's how I feel anyway.

  13. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daera View Post
    Well said...

    I feel that although Warren and Lou might be equally responsible for any wrong doings in the past, as partners, I give Warren credit for finally doing what a lot of us wanted to see most. Publically coming clean, taking responsibility for what's already happened, and apologizing. Warren didn't blame the past on everyone else. He said he was wrong, and was sorry.

    I realize "I'm sorry" doesn't make everything just magically fine. But this is something Lou STILL has not done. Lou does nothing but point fingers and make himself out to always be the victim. That disgusts me.

    At least Warren is making steps in the right direction, and I give him kudos for that. Lou should try letting go of some of his ego, stop talking so much, stop blaming everyone else for everything that goes wrong in his life and step up to the plate and show that he's taking responsibility for his part at least.

    I'd be a lot more inclined to recognize that Lou makes mistakes and is only human like the rest of us, if he'd actually come clean and show he actually has remorse for his part. Warren has done this.
    Actually, Warrens statement to me seemed to be more excuses (i.e. he tried blaming the whole reason they kept it quiet as being because they didn't know how to let everyone know what was actually going on)

    That, to me, is a load of crap. It is painfully obvious that the only reason Warren "came out" recently is because of the big reveal that other industry members started, that has been growing since. He realized it was going to be impossible to continue pretending like they weren't involved, so now his excuse is that they didn't know how to tell everyone.
    Name: Anthony Martino
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  15. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    Actually, I thought Lou posted a statement before Warren did.

    Warrens was worded a bit better though...

    Rick
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    Just two men feeding off the same carcass just in different ways lol.

    greek39

  16. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokerNations View Post
    Actually, Warrens statement to me seemed to be more excuses (i.e. he tried blaming the whole reason they kept it quiet as being because they didn't know how to let everyone know what was actually going on)

    That, to me, is a load of crap. It is painfully obvious that the only reason Warren "came out" recently is because of the big reveal that other industry members started, that has been growing since. He realized it was going to be impossible to continue pretending like they weren't involved, so now his excuse is that they didn't know how to tell everyone.
    You're right about everything. We all know that things could have, and should have been handled better from the get go. But now that things are what they are, I expected both of them to come clean, apologize, and do what they can to make things right. Obviously making things right doesn't mean they can go back in time, and it doesn't mean they can magically regain everyone's trust.

    I appreciated finally reading the words:

    First, and most importantly, I owe all of you a huge apology.

    I screwed up. There is no excuse for trying to cover up my affiliation with CardSpike, other than I knew there would be a conflict of interest. I realize that I have betrayed your trust, and all that I can ask at this point, is that you give me a chance to rebuild it. Here is the truth, once and for all.
    His statement started with "I" and not "we" or "him" who screwed up. I don't know about anyone else here, but I have a hard time listening to someone, or giving any consideration to a second chance of any sort until they admit they've actually made a mistake. Warren, said he made a mistake. Has Lou?

    An apology doesn't make everything ok. Just because someone apologizes doesn't mean we can all just forget it happened and go on business as usual. But it is a step in the right direction.

    I sure would like to have seen a similiar acknowledgement of screwing up and an apology from Lou as well.

    I'm sure you're right that neither Lou or Warren would have come out with any statements about this at all, if it had not been for industry members bringing this all to light. The difference is that Warren said that he screwed up, period. He also apologized to us for his role. Lou has only come out still denying he's done anything wrong. His statement is all about blaming Warren and posting the injustices done to him. So unless Lou is without blame, he's still trying to "pretend" since he hasn't told us that he screwed up at all. Nor has he apologized for screwing up, since he apparently doesn't think he's screwed up.

    I guess it bothers me a little bit more that Lou doesn't care enough about his partners and members, about any of us, to EVEN NOW apologize for his lies and his role in this mess. It makes me think he feels he's treated people right, and he's the victim.

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  18. #71
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    My issue with Warren is that just THREE DAYS AGO he posted this in a thread titled the truth

    Hello CAP Members,

    I'm sure many of you have seen the recent post made by the Professor (Louis Fabiano), which came as a shock to all of the staff and shareholders at CAP. It is a move out of sheer desperation to shift the blame over all of these years for heinous actions that were NEVER approved or favored by the rest of the CAP team. Many of the respectable industry leaders were waiting for this man to fall off the deep end and he finally did. Do not believe or fall for the lies.

    We will soon be posting the REAL truth (surely you can understand the legal implications here of making emotional, hot-headed posts...which coincidentially enough you will not see anymore!). In the meahwhile, now that the Professor has been banned for his lies, expect to see a LOT of positive change here at CAP. I will post updates as soon as possible on both matters.

    Thanks for your loyalty and understanding.

    CAP
    This is an obvious shift of the blame to Lou, because it's easy to do. Lou comes off like a loose cannon off his rocker, while Warren is able to be more sly with his posts.

    I agree with you that Lou hasn't apologized, and has just given us the "woah is me" line time after time.

    But in regards to Warrens "apology", bah. It means even less than Lous unwillingness to look beyond his own need for pity.

    Warrens "apology" is just a corporate rouse to keep his money train running on the tracks. There's no remorse, no deep concern for the industry, etc.

    His apology is purely profit-motivated and to me does not come across as sincere in the slightest.

    Heck, I think Lou deserves more credit than Warren for not bothering to try and push a fake apology upon us.

    I'm glad to hear that affiliates and programs are pulling out of CAP, there are plenty of other worthy alternatives than to give your traffic and thus provide revenue for the people profiting from CAP.
    Name: Anthony Martino
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    Company: PokerNations LLC
    Site: www.PokerNations.com

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  20. #72
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    I think it's purdy obvious that neither one of these guys consulted with their attorney first before making these public statements. I just posted this over at Casinomeister but would like to hear you all's thoughts on this too....

    "I still have not heard anyone mention their thoughts on whether or not they believe this admission by Lou & Warren of their involvement in an online poker room will be escalated to a further, more serious impact on themselves and their businesses if and when an indictment is handed down by the powers that be.

    This is just now starting to get out into the main stream media and as J. Todd mentioned in his video that this may possibly be another story picked up by 60 minutes or the like's of another major media outlet. I still find it really hard to believe that things will ever return to normal at "CAP" as this is only the beginning of possibly many investigations into this company's business and their involvement in other online betting operations.

    I think the one thing that both Lou and Warren have working in their favor at the moment is the fact that Obama is in and Bush is out. Other than that, this is still one major can of worms here that the lid has not even been totally pulled back on yet. Both of these guys are US Citizens and both have publicly admitted their involvement and their US Corporations involvement in an online poker room taking bets from US Citizens.

    Am I the only one here that can see the possibility of their potential demise and confiscation of their businesses by the US Authorities ??

    There are thousands of folks here in the US that have been indicted before on much lesser offenses than what we see Lou and Warren admitting to in public here."

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  22. #73
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    I am not going to make this a long drawn out post. I dont give a rats ass if he is sorry or not because his intentions and motives are not what they should be. There is no remorse in that post. Just a pittiful attempt at salvaging whats left of his business and more so damage control.

    Regardless of whether he use the words "we" "I" or "he" his post is no different than my 8 year old who got caught red handed in the cookie jar and says I didnt do it...oh well I am sorry. He's trying to save face. There is a difference between someone who is actually sorry and someone who only admits once they know their lies are no longer going to get them through the heat. He still banned people, he still sent out C&D's, and he still told people where to go ( in other words) when they asked for their cardspike money

    I will choose to use other resources than CAP. I will not support either person and because of that I will contuinue not to support CAP. This has nothing to do with the people like Dom, Robin and the others but because the posts made by memebers is what makes that company money and I wont do it. But I wont be here arguing about either Lou or Warren anymore either because I am not going to enable it.

    Something to ponder - If another member stole from their peers (an affiliate) and treated them so badly, they would have a really hard time gaining that trust and forgivness back from the entire community. If JohnSmith ripped off someone here for content, web design or even went through a bad business deal with a member, I highly doubt anyone would be trusting him again. Or at the very least he would be kept on a tight chain. What gives Warren the right to expect that an " I am sorry my lawyer sent you papers" " I am sorry I lied to everyone" " I am sorry I told people to foff when they asked for the money" will make it better.


    So why should either of them be able to do so easily? Not saying that it shouldnt be done, but you cant deny all storts of things like whats happened there over the last year and than expect to say I am sorry and oh yeah now we will make the changes you guys have been asking and expect it to be ok.

    I refuse to accept someone who knowingly and deliberatly stole from people I consider friends and both share the blame in that!
    Last edited by ck8795; 27 February 2009 at 7:52 am.

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  24. #74
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    I have to agree with everything that kaus and PokerNations has said. I'll bet you that if Lou and Warren were small time affiliates that folk would be lining up to take their turn at lighting the fire to burn them at the stake. But because of their big time parties and flamboyant lifestyles there are still folk that are willing to "forgive" them and forget about all the lies, scams and name calling these two have done. What a joke .
    Last edited by Skinski; 27 February 2009 at 8:17 am.

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  26. #75
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    Default About Lou and Warren

    What really saddens me how both Lou and Warren denied any complicity with CardSpike, but in the end they have had to admit to their guilt and complicity. I hope that they are charged by the Federal Authorities in the United States for complicity and if they are they may both end up spending time in prison.

    As a member of CAP, I have lost all respect for Lou and Warren and won't bother to post on CAP anymore because of this. Lou's whining is like that of a spoilt 2 year old who totally loses it when he doesn't get his own way. What also sickens me is Lou's behavior at CAP London when he wanted to fight J Todd, this was totally unacceptable. There is an old saying that you reap what you sew and Lou is getting what he deserves and soon Warren Jolly will as well and that will hopefully be jail time for both of them.

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    Hi Guys,

    im sry my english is not that brilliant as yours, but i have also some question...maybe not so related to this topic

    I read also that PAW is owned by CAP and PAP and that also both of them are owned by Pokernews which is owned by Tony G

    When all this is true so who is at the end really responsible for all the damage they made ?

  28. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by COPCapo View Post
    Hi Guys,

    im sry my english is not that brilliant as yours, but i have also some question...maybe not so related to this topic

    I read also that PAW is owned by CAP and PAP and that also both of them are owned by Pokernews which is owned by Tony G

    When all this is true so who is at the end really responsible for all the damage they made ?
    My understanding is that PAW is owned by the people who own PokerNews, but they aren't owners of CAP/PAP that I'm aware of.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
    Name: Anthony Martino
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    Site: www.PokerNations.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by COPCapo View Post
    Hi Guys,

    im sry my english is not that brilliant as yours, but i have also some question...maybe not so related to this topic

    I read also that PAW is owned by CAP and PAP and that also both of them are owned by Pokernews which is owned by Tony G

    When all this is true so who is at the end really responsible for all the damage they made ?
    COPCapo, where did you read this at? Do you have an article source for this?

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    Pokernews owned the forums that were part of PAW (poker affiliate world) for a short period of time before selling the forums to Affiliate Media, Inc.

    Affiliate Media owns CAP and PAP, and the former PAW forums were merged into the PAP forums after they were acquired by Affiliate Media.

    There is no relationship between pokernews and Affiliate Media at the present time.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

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    PAW was once named Party Riches?
    "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between" - Oscar Wilde

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