Split Thread - Microgaming Discussion

[pgaming]

Not attempting to be abrasive Alex but these words and you may agree,

Are you basically saying that Micro shouldn't give licences to just anyone....?.....Its my impression they don't, these days to work with Micro you need to have pass certain criteria and I hear they are pretty strict as its a big investment on their side as well when they sign up a new operator

All I can think about is Grand Prive how their license remains and the rest is history. But where one road ends another begins. Maybe one day MG will revoke GP’S license be a step in the right direction IMO.

And were just getting warmed up lol.

greek39

[GamTrak]

All I can think about is Grand Prive how their license remains and the rest is history. But where one road ends another begins. Maybe one day MG will revoke GP’S license be a step in the right direction IMO.

That will happen when hell freezes over as I'm sure that Micrograming is furious over the 'exposure' so far and IMO won't do anything! They use to be a respected software provider, but IMO they are no better than RTG, Top Game & Rivals! The only ones that don't realize it is them.

As long as Grand Prive is allowed to operate the industry as a whole will suffer, but the so-called industry 'leaders' don't give a $hit about the situation caused by GP, but hopefully he can do something to help someone.

IMO he is not gonna fight for affiliates, as it relates to them closing the affiliate program, and only wants the GP, Microgaming, eCOGRA nightmare to just go away! But it WON'T.

[Spearmaster]

As long as Grand Prive is allowed to operate the industry as a whole will suffer, but the so-called industry 'leaders' don't give a $hit about the situation caused by GP, but hopefully he can do something to help someone.

IMO he is not gonna fight for affiliates, as it relates to them closing the affiliate program, and only wants the GP, Microgaming, eCOGRA nightmare to just go away! But it WON'T.

You don't know how wrong you are.

[Betpartners]

You don't know how wrong you are.

Well based on history i would say Gamtrak has hit the nail on the head.

Maybe this "meeting" will be different to the previous ones.

[Spearmaster]

Well based on history i would say Gamtrak has hit the nail on the head.

Maybe this "meeting" will be different to the previous ones.

Based on what history?

Casinomeister has gone to the Isle of Man to meet with Microgaming. There is no public history of these meetings now or in the past.

Gamtrak does NOT know what agenda Casinomeister is carrying to the Isle of Man with him. She does not know whether or not other people have placed the GP fiasco at the top of their wish list. She doesn't even know who Casinomeister is meeting with.

Please stop the speculation. Let's see what happens, there is nothing to lose.

[Betpartners]

Based on what history?

Casinomeister has gone to the Isle of Man to meet with Microgaming. There is no public history of these meetings now or in the past.

Gamtrak does NOT know what agenda Casinomeister is carrying to the Isle of Man with him. She does not know whether or not other people have placed the GP fiasco at the top of their wish list. She doesn't even know who Casinomeister is meeting with.

Please stop the speculation. Let's see what happens, there is nothing to lose.

The history i refer to is CM saying that he was meeting with the CEO's of microgaming in London, approx two months ago, i am also fairly certain that he said he gets on quite well with them etc,

That part is not speculation although i do agree that there is nothing to lose.


The arguement i have made before is that those with influence over microgaming could use it and lets be fair if the likes of CM and even the GPWA, AGD and others used their power they could bring microgaming to their senses.

The casinos that use microgaming software would soon turn on microgaming if they no longer had outlets like the ones i have mentioned above open to them for promotional purposes.

But then that would see a lot of money vanish from these sites wouldnt it, so thats not an option.

I am not neccasarily advocating that for the record, in fact think it would be wrong, i am just saying that it can be done if the will to get it done is there, its not like the so called advocate sites dont all know each other rather well.

But i stand by my comment that Gamtrak is spot on, this is not the first time that CM has met with microgaming and based on that history nothing has changed has it?

Of course i dont know what has gone on behind the scenes and neither does Gamtrak to my knowledge so my comments are purely based on the info i am aware of and therefore i will accept that i could be wide of the mark.

In fact i really hope that i am.

[Nandakishore]

I don't think CM or GPWA etc. can influence the policy of Microgaming as long as the big affiliate mgmt. groups like Rewards, Brightshare etc. are satisfied with business as is.

[giggles7p]

Also, i asked CM when he went to London to ask a few questions for me to Microgaming because he asked if anyone had any questions for Microgaming to leave a post over at CM and he would see what he could do then......but the reply i received from him for my questions where...."these are affiliate questions, and he does not deal with that side of things"....so he maybe meeting with them, but from past experience i believe its only on a player issue...which is fine....but don't let others think its for the entire industry.

[GamTrak]

Gamtrak does NOT know what agenda Casinomeister is carrying to the Isle of Man with him. She does not know whether or not other people have placed the GP fiasco at the top of their wish list. She doesn't even know who Casinomeister is meeting with.

Please stop the speculation. Let's see what happens, there is nothing to lose.

True, but I do know my post is accurate. The fact that you and others don't like it does not matter to me and since I'm banned at that joint I'll find other ways to be heard. I've been in the industry since 2001 so I'm no rookie and know exactly what I'm talking about. Add that to Bryans own words and there you have it!

It's not my goal to argue with anyone so I'll just leave it at that, but I won't be talked down to or made to look like I don't know what is going on because I do!

It's funny that the only time you (and others) run over here to post Spear is to defend Bryan! Let him speak for himself sometimes!

Edit: Other than JTodd please show me WHOM has taken action against Grand Prive since the FAKE eCOGRA audit?

[Spearmaster]

True, but I do know my post is accurate.

Which post is accurate? Microgaming ain't going to do anything, or CM is not going to fight for affiliates?

Both are wrong.

The fact that you and others don't like it does not matter to me and since I'm banned at that joint I'll find other ways to be heard. I've been in the industry since 2001 so I'm no rookie and know exactly what I'm talking about. Add that to Bryans own words and there you have it!

You were apparently banned because you kept on stirring up trouble, not because anyone needed to silence you. Get it straight, please. No one called you a rookie either.

It's not my goal to argue with anyone so I'll just leave it at that, but I won't be talked down to or made to look like I don't know what is going on because I do!

It's funny that the only time you (and others) run over here to post Spear is to defend Bryan! Let him speak for himself sometimes!

I run over here to post? You gotta be shitting me... you know that statement is not true in the slightest - but you feel like stirring up trouble again, eh?

Does ANYONE believe that I only post here at GPWA to defend Bryan? Sheesh!

Edit: Other than JTodd please show me WHOM has taken action against Grand Prive since the FAKE eCOGRA audit?

Excuse me please. The audit was not FAKE - it was FLAWED. You can't seem to get it right, can you - just twist and turn everything whichever way you like and it MUST be the truth, huh?

People are working behind the scenes to try and get something done. Whether you like it or not, it's true - there is no reason why these people should have to announce every last thing they do.

Now I think I've said enough, and I am happy to respond but only to LEGITIMATE and FACTUAL posts. No more of the emotion-laden, exaggerated barbs that are being thrown around in here - either be reasonable and don't distort the facts, or else shut up.

[Spearmaster]

Also, i asked CM when he went to London to ask a few questions for me to Microgaming because he asked if anyone had any questions for Microgaming to leave a post over at CM and he would see what he could do then......but the reply i received from him for my questions where...."these are affiliate questions, and he does not deal with that side of things"....so he maybe meeting with them, but from past experience i believe its only on a player issue...which is fine....but don't let others think its for the entire industry.

As I don't know the nature of your question I certainly won't make any presumptions there - but trust me when I say that these meetings can cover just about anything related to the industry.

I don't know what happened in London but my guess is that they didn't have time for a proper meeting. If you've been to a conference you'll know what it's like - the last nine years, I had no time for anything more than a hi with most people unless we'd prescheduled a time and date - and even then a lot of these meetings got put off.

As I have said earlier - nothing to lose - why write it off before it's even happened?

[Betpartners]

Spearmaster i think that giggles statement about Bryan's response is fact, it is also a fact that Bryan has met them before and that he stated he gets on well with them and so on, so some facts that i am sure you agree with have been stated on here.

Also fake or flawed both ended up as the same result, that is splitting hairs really, bottom line was that the end result was wrong, a fact accepted by the vest majority that have knowledge on the ecogra audit/investigation

With regards to Gamtrak, there is obviously history there that i may not be aware of, but honestly mate seeing the abuse she took when she was over there and i did read the old attack thread condoned for the most part by Bryan i would not be surprised if Gamtrak did end up banned ofr her subsequent responses, most people would have been to have been subjected to such a public lynching like that without any reall decent moderation and basically being forced to respond on their own without any protection.

That episode was shameful imo

However i do agree that it can be very difficult when things are going on behind the scenes that is not for public consumption, i have been there and when comments are made it can be very frustrating when you know you are really trying to make something positive happen but cannot broadcast that fact.

My statements were based on history, that said i will refrain from further comment re Bryan and Ecogra and see if he does pull the cat out of the hat on this one and if he did i would be the first to scream well done.

But mate you cannot blame me if i dont hold my breath,

[Spearmaster]

Spearmaster i think that giggles statement about Bryan's response is fact, it is also a fact that Bryan has met them before and that he stated he gets on well with them and so on, so some facts that i am sure you agree with have been stated on here.

Not denying what Giggles said - just that I don't know what she asked him

Also, no one said that they had never met before, just that there is no public record of any such meeting. Bryan and I have met the CEO of Microgaming on a number of occasions - mostly social though.

Also fake or flawed both ended up as the same result, that is splitting hairs really, bottom line was that the end result was wrong, a fact accepted by the vest majority that have knowledge on the ecogra audit/investigation

Same result, but "fake" implies it was contrived, while "flawed" means that there was something wrong with how the audit was conducted. I'm sure you can distinguish between the two meanings.

With regards to Gamtrak, there is obviously history there that i may not be aware of, but honestly mate seeing the abuse she took when she was over there and i did read the old attack thread condoned for the most part by Bryan i would not be surprised if Gamtrak did end up banned ofr her subsequent responses, most people would have been to have been subjected to such a public lynching like that without any reall decent moderation and basically being forced to respond on their own without any protection.

I think you need to read everything before making up your mind. There are also instances where Bryan has defended Gamtrak - but she refuses to acknowledge that there are two sides to the coin, instead pointing to how he "did nothing" when she "was being attacked". She basically ASKED to be banned towards the end, and in the end Bryan had had enough of her flak - which, btw, was not just through postings, but private messaging as well.

As a former moderator there, I can tell you that we don't take sides. The current moderators, Max, Simmo and Webzcas, are all highly-respected members of the community. Unfortunately, moderators are *always* seen to be biased by a small minority of the community - on ANY forum, not just Casinomeister - but the nature of the gaming industry just makes things worse.

My statements were based on history, that said i will refrain from further comment re Bryan and Ecogra and see if he does pull the cat out of the hat on this one and if he did i would be the first to scream well done.

But mate you cannot blame me if i dont hold my breath,

Bryan is only one of a few people trying to make things better, whether with Microgaming or any other part of the industry. He will not be pulling the cat out of the hat by himself - instead, the community's collective efforts will in the long run ensure fairness.

It is totally unfair to see Casinomeister as THE single savior or THE single devil of the industry - yet that is what some people are trying to portray him as.

[Betpartners]

Fair comments Spearmaster, in fact though we may see some things different was a pleasure debating this with you and i have said my bit as you have said yours.

[jod5413]

To all of you that seem to think Gamtrak is misused and abused by so many, I have a task for all you.

Go to Casinomeister, pull up Gamtrak's posting history, and read from the beginning to the end. I think you will change your ideas about what a poor, innocent, picked on soul she is.

If anyone disagreed with her, she went off on them. She was sarcastic and snarky, and truthfully, it was not long before people were showing animosity to her and her aggressive posts and attitude.

She states she is the victim, she is not. She is an antagonistic, self serving person with no sense of reality. There is quite a bit of historic proof that she has been on the wrong side of right many times over the years.

Her latest complaint over being banned by Bryan Bailey is ludicrous. He gave her a lot more chances than he has others. She purposely pushed the envelope to be banned, IMO.

[nitro]

Are you basically saying that Micro shouldn't give licences to just anyone....?

I am saying that when a software provider aims to sell as many licenses as possible this is for sure the wrong policy because it will always end up with lot of substandard outfits which is quite detrimental in the bigger picture.

I am quite sure that a revenue share model with a smaller number of trusted operation would work better because this way there would be no need to constantly adding new casinos and the software providers would have an intrinsic interest that their licensees run properly.

I actually don't have much of a clue how the relationship of a software provider/casino looks like in the background and can only speculate about microgaming but in the end you can only go for the one model or the other.

[nitro]

Nitro, I'm sorry if this sounds wrong or rude but I always get lost when I read your posts. Is it just me?

Writing about some half crazy stuff in a very condensed style by a non native english speaker is quite a challenge too but i will try to improve that.

[Betpartners]

To all of you that seem to think Gamtrak is misused and abused by so many, I have a task for all you.

Go to Casinomeister, pull up Gamtrak's posting history, and read from the beginning to the end. I think you will change your ideas about what a poor, innocent, picked on soul she is.

If anyone disagreed with her, she went off on them. She was sarcastic and snarky, and truthfully, it was not long before people were showing animosity to her and her aggressive posts and attitude.

She states she is the victim, she is not. She is an antagonistic, self serving person with no sense of reality. There is quite a bit of historic proof that she has been on the wrong side of right many times over the years.

Her latest complaint over being banned by Bryan Bailey is ludicrous. He gave her a lot more chances than he has others. She purposely pushed the envelope to be banned, IMO.

Well i think that "all of you" refers to me, so i shall respond

But first and foremost will state that i have never met gamtrak, never spoke with her on the telpehone, never spoke with her on any form of messenger and have never done any form of business with her, i will have to search my PM history to see if there is any communication there to say that there has never to my knowledge been any form of communication.

So my opinion on this is mine and mine alone and not in defence of a mate or any such connection that can be made.

Now i know what i read and in fact after spearmasters post went back and read it again.

So for the second time i will state that i stand by my post 100% and am far more firm in my opinion than i was earlier having had a refresher course.

The attacks on gamtrak near the end of tenure on casinomesieter were shameful to read, they were relentless and whether merited or not a sickening site to read.

But that was not what shocked me, i ahve seen enough of that on here nevermind CM to know that goes on, no, what shocked me was the fact that the mods not only did absolyely nothing to quell the lynch mob but actually joined in.

The more that gamtrak responded and sometimes with vitriol which i fully understand the more the attacks came about.

CM for the most part has a dislike of affilaites, anyone reading over there can see that, yes there are some webmasters members over there but the general underlying pattern is a dislike of affiliate and webmasters.

The general consensus is that webmasters for the most part dont give a **** about players, and you know what to a certain degree that may well be true, but it seems that it is gamtrak that bears the brunt of it.

But that is all besides the point, i read what i read and i am far from being alone in my opinion on this and no matter what gloss is put on it and no matter what reasons or history is put forward i fully understood what i read.

To defend it is to condone it and that says it all to me.

Maybe gamtrak does have a history, maybe she even deserved to be banned earlier, i dont know and wont pass judgement on that, nor will i condemn her for her history based on what others say but my own judegement.

No doubt my opinion is worthless on this and that is also fine with me, but i ahve my opinion and i stand by it and am thankful that i was never a part of that collective 21st century lynching.

[nitro]

CM for the most part has a dislike of affiliates, anyone reading over there can see that, yes there are some webmasters members over there but the general underlying pattern is a dislike of affiliate and webmasters.

If you read through this thread you'll understand it.

[jod5413]

Casinomeister has a dislike of bad webmasters and affiliates, as we all do. He has many friends in the industry, and most are affliates or webmasters, I would bet.

And that makes him qualified to talk with Microgaming or any of the other gaming platforms.

Betpartners and anyone else can say what they want, let's see some actual "proof" of Bryan Bailey's active dislike of affiliates.

Just be warned, if you are one of the affiliates that make money off some af the many rogue casinos, Hell Yes, he and any honest webmaster, affiliate, and player will actively dislike you.