Summary

[Rushmore Ben]

Hi,

I would like to summarise the last crazy weeks, threads and wild accusations that have been flying around.

1. C-planet was removed as a platinum sponsor from AGD.
As the guy in charge of C-planet marketing , I have to agree with Andy, and I understand fully why this happened. We have been late on payments to affiliates, I can not deny this fact. I understand that timely payments is an important issue with a lot of affiliates. I have endeavored to rectify this problem, time will tell if I succeed.
I will add that Andy did not rogue us and we maybe late but we do pay all affiliates.

2. Player Fraud is a big issue that not many people want to tackle, the Hungarian player was unlucky to have deposited and had the same playing or similar playing patterns to a Hungarian fraud ring that hit us. There was also the issue of the address.
Could the investigation have been handled better ? in hindsight I would have to say yes. The matter could have been handled better and quicker.
However the player has now been paid in full.
The noise leading up to it and personal insults and wild accusations on some of the threads has just been ridiculous.
It seems some people on the forum can post what ever they like, even if it is a complete fabrication of the truth, if i dare to question them I am demonised.
I believe that some people play God on the forums and are completey removed from reality. Hence nobody from GPWA management or "Important Fiery Forum Regulars" attempted to meet with me in Prague, despite claims to the other effect. I did meet with Graeme from Gambling Grumbles, it was a pleasant and productive meeting.

3. The fact we are no longer accredited at Casinomeister is a shame, but if Bryan doesn't feel comfortable with us then , I can accept that. I do believe that there are many issues such as fraudulent players and also fraudulent affiliates, that are not covered on the forums. I also believe that certain forum members have too much power and get away with too much.

4. The Rushmore Group/c-planet - are not the Devil Incarnate
We are a business with around 60 employees, we eat sleep breath the same as the rest of you. We even play 5 a side soccer on Tuesday evenings.
In the last 3 years we have paid out MILLIONS of dollars to players in winnings and we continue to do so.
We pay over a MILLION every month to affiliates ( sometimes late )
We have huge exposure in the SERPS and have over 3000 affiliate accounts.
Our software is not rigged, we do not make up jackpot winners, we do not give away 60% affiliate deals, we are not going bankrupt.

Can we improve the way we operate ? Yes

Thanks for reading and sorry if it was a bit long winded.

Regards

Ben

[joeyl]

Personally, I think rogue players and affiliates, and thier actions should be exposed, same as is for rogue operators.

The info just does'nt get posted. Do so.

[Renee]

Personally, I think rogue players and affiliates, and thier actions should be exposed, same as is for rogue operators.

The info just does'nt get posted. Do so.

I agree with Ben that a lot of the other side of the fence never gets talked about.. Unfortunately we (the forum members) have been down that road many times and the consensus is usually that affiliate programs cannot do this because we are a company and the affiliate/player is an individual and that a company can take heat but an individual can be ruined. You could do a search and find a few threads about it. In fact I remember one time an (ex) affiliate manager posted that an affiliate had made some chargebacks on his player account that were false. The guy purchased and played, then charged back. The affiliate manager was scolded by affiliates saying that it was unprofessional etc.

I don't think we can win here, but I think it would be nice if people read their posts before clicking the button. Even leaving them for half hour. Regardless of where you are in the world, I don't think some people realise that affiliate managers are REAL PEOPLE. You treat us as though we are a company, but we are individuals that actually care about our work.

Yes, if you call me names, I'll hurt. If you speak to me ugly, I'll hurt. I may even cry, and I have definitely lost sleep over some of the threads that go on here. The saying "sticks and stones" is not necessarily true when you are passionate about your work. I can't speak for the other affiliate managers, but I LOVE my job. I love my job so much that for the last 5 years I have driven 2 hours to get to the office and 2 hours again to get home. I have been in the office from 7.30am until midnight sometimes helping people who were in a different timezone, then driven home. Got home at 2am, then got up at 5.30am to do it again. When I come into the office and read crap like some of the stuff that's been posted recently, I actually want to be sick and I wonder why I bother when I could do something right 1 million times, then the one time something goes wrong, because we all know noone is perfect, people forget how great you were previously.

I wonder if these people treat other people like this in their every day life? Do they actually talk to people like that?

I admit that sometimes it's easy to fly off the handle, but for crying out loud, we all have the option to think about it before we press the button! Take it out on your pillow! There are constructive ways to get a view across. Belittling people is definitely not one of them.

Anyway I'm ending my rant there (sorry for derailing a bit Ben), but I hope people take what I've said into consideration when dealing with issues they bring to the table for us aff managers to deal with. Maybe just put yourself in the aff manager's shoes for 5 minutes and consider how you would react if you were them reading that.

[joeyl]

I don't care for the consensus.

Post the info about the rogues, who they are, how they operate.

ie, If players are allowed to "out" rogue operators, then you must be allowed to do the same.

[pgaming]

The scale is always tipping towards to rogue casino. There needs to be more exposure as Joeyl mentioned between rogue players, webmasters, and programs.

I can only assume player fraud and webmaster misconduct is costing the casinos a fair bit. And you know what its not right nor fair.

greek39

[Rushmore Ben]

Hi,

As you requested. Here is one of the ways we get stung:

1. Affiliates open accounts at C-planet
2. They say that they have gaming related traffic , some even have gaming related sites with banners of other casinos.
3. They send a few clicks , to make it look legit. They then send a few depositors.
4. The players tend to have the same playing and depositing methods.
5. If the players win , then all is good for them.
6. If the players loose , the affiliate waits to get paid his earnings from us, always through an e-wallet.
7.Once the affiliate has received his earnings , most the players Charge Back.
8.They tend to leave some of the small deposits like $25 to make it look legit hoping we wont catch them , so they can try another round and get some more affiliate earnings.
I have closed down in the last few weeks 37 affiliate accounts and will be closing down at least another 15 today.
too long to list them all.
admin@artfunbet.com http://www.artfunbet.com 74% Charge Backs
teh@sabotatore.com http://www.sabotatore.com 80% Charge Backs
admin@casinotellme.com http://www.casinotellme.com 47% Charge Backs
viking176@gmail.com http://yeucahat.com 60% Charge Backs
joedepau77@live.com http://nhaccuatui.com 75% Charge Backs
market@meetatcasino.com http://www.meetatcasino.com 50% Charge backs
ngochung38@gmail.com http://donhochung.t35.com 100% Charge backs
comfromaff08@yahoo.com http://www.comfromnet.com 73% Charge backs
casinoinp@tom.com http://www.casinoinpromotion.com 90% Charge backs
deerhol@yahoo.com http://earn-comi.com 80%

Regards

Ben

The scale is always tipping towards to rogue casino. There needs to be more exposure as Joeyl mentioned between rogue players, webmasters, and programs.

I can only assume player fraud and webmaster misconduct is costing the casinos a fair bit. And you know what its not right nor fair.

greek39

[joeyl]

The system is all wrong.

Atleast you posting that info gives other affiliate arms the opportunity to find it and act accordingly.

It's all we have.

Any of those you "out" have a defense they feel worthy. They can post it. If they talk nonsense, they'll be told and will expose themselves further. If they have a point, you'll be told so by some of the good affs here.

[pgaming]

We all learn something new everyday. I suspected these sorts of problems existed but not to this extent and thank you Ben for sharing.

It is no wonder and pretty clear now this is a huge epidemic hindering the good brands from progressing forward. Fairness is a two way street and it is sad IMO that people would feel the need to employ deceitful tactical BS to fraud any brand.

Late payments I say what? I don't blame you in the slightest. I wonder why some just cannot play by the rules and be honest. If I was in charge my suspicious attitude would likely consume most of time and would get no work done.

The next question would be how much does a brand lose just in player fraud alone? I think this could be made public if any program has some figures handy.

These are terrible circumstances and will be perused by myself/team and made public.

greek39

[casinobonusguy]

I am disappointed with the way things have gone for c-planet.Ben/Rushmore have stuck with USA PLAYERS AND AFFILIATES for the past 3 years.We all know the financial risk not to mention criminal actions that can be taken against groups who continue the USA Market.If a program is late sometimes there are more reasons than they cant pay or don't want to pay. i waited 5 months to
get paid by Revenue Giants and 3 months one time from Bodog .I have worked with these guys for 5 years and I knew with confidence that I would get paid.It was simply a change in payment options that caused the hold up.I live in Canada and we have never had a single payment issue with Rushmore ,Are these payment issues tied to USA?Any non USA affiliates have payment issues?Every year when we go to Conferences Rushmore spends $xxx,xxx on parties not exactly the behavior of a group with money issues.

[joeyl]

Operational difficulties exist in all businesses, of course. Most firms have to call the police and prove thier case against fraud, theft and so on.

Was anyone prosecuted here? What did the authorities in this gang's vicinity have to say?

Returning the deposits of fraudsters makes it a no lose gamble for the bad guy.

[universal4]

casinobonusguy,

I respect many of your posts, but honestly, the amount of money a group spends on parties is not necessarily a factor, and in reality that just gives players another factor to bring up that maybe the money should be spent on taking care of players issues....

I don't fault CPlanet for actually spending money on promotions and parties, but I don't think it is pertinent.

And Ben, sorry to hear of having to close down so many accounts due to such a high chargeback ratio...

I happened to grab a single domain to look at randomly, and it's nothing but a ppc placeholder....and that alone screams that it is possibly a spammer....(maybe not but certainly worth closer investigation)

Rick
Universal4