Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 101
  1. #81
    AussieDave's Avatar
    AussieDave is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    November 2005
    Location
    from the land downunder
    Posts
    4,062
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    1,682
    Thanked 1,906 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanHorvat View Post
    So if an average-quality program of a huge mainstream brand goes rogue and starts culling small affiliates by closing their accounts - what do you suggest union should do?
    I agree, more often than not it's the small(er) affiliates who are treated poorly, in these scenarios. The larger affiliate accounts wont act (drop a program) until it knocks on their door, and cuts their income stream.

    However, as a "union", I'd like to think it could/would take proactive steps to educate affiliate programs. Thus, preventing some of these programs turning rogue in the 1'st place. Given the nature of the industry, there will always be some program trying to get-it-over on their affiliates. This mindset almost always revolves around greed or corportate shareholder mentality.

    You, I, or a "union" will never stop this happening.
    Last edited by AussieDave; 3 August 2017 at 9:47 pm. Reason: grammatics

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to AussieDave For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (3 August 2017), Roulette Zeitung (4 August 2017), vardan (4 August 2017)

  3. #82
    TheBoyMitchell is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2008
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    549
    Thanks
    253
    Thanked 281 Times in 178 Posts

    Default

    I can think of two people who could do this as they have enough clout in the industry. However to make it worth their time affiliates who are interested would have to become a sub affiliate of these people, to cover their costs of flying into meetings etc, to show serious intent and to deal with the non stop emails etc flying about from affiliates at the lower earnings scale eating up their time (this isn't me being harsh; most big and definitely all super affiliates bar a couple don't post on here any more). Established affiliates have more experience than most of today's AMs and realise that those AMs dont have the power to make decisions. The decisions that vexed you guys are made by people higher up the chain and left to the AMs to administer, take the pain and then they leave to go elsewhere. I can only think of two people in the industry who care enough to take this on, but one is already kinda doing it (based out of Germany with his own forums) and the other is very keen to find a new niche with which to leverage himself and become a fully 100% expert in the industry (he's already well known and respected, but I feel that he would take this on to further build his brand).

    But like I say, this doesn't come for free. A subscription is too hard to monitor, a sub affiliate account makes much more sense to anyone taking it on. Be a success and more people join, they make more money and the person behind the 'union' earns legitimate funds whilst being independent, which is what you want.

    If I could be bothered with taking on another couple of staff then I'd do it. But I'd have to be well paid for being an intermediary between a 10k a year affiliate and a major brand that I already have a good relationship with.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheBoyMitchell For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (3 August 2017), Roulette Zeitung (4 August 2017)

  5. #83
    DanHorvat's Avatar
    DanHorvat is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    November 2008
    Location
    Actual location may vary.
    Posts
    1,897
    Blog Entries
    3
    Thanks
    1,302
    Thanked 1,289 Times in 760 Posts

    Default

    The biggest problem in the industry in recent years has been culling the small affiliates. More than one program stole players from thousands of small affiliates that make little income individually, but as a whole we're talking about millions. Mainstream brands seem to be particularly prone to this behavior.

    Reason why this is possible in the first place, and the operator is well aware of it, is that affiliates don't stand together and an individual affiliate couldn't care less if another affiliate gets his account closed. The non-affected affiliate will keep promoting the brand.

    And you're telling me we should keep letting people do precisely that - and therefore show a complete absence of spine - but that it should still be some sort of a union?

    No. If you want someone to fight for your own interests and you want to be part of a mutual agenda and to benefit from membership, the price of admission is a promise you'll drop a rogue program if asked to.

    Of course, it would rarely, if ever, come to that. But it could. And the main thing a union would be doing is preventing it from happening in the first place, by trying to keep affiliate programs in line - and by offering improved deals and improved T&Cs for union members.

    In that setting it would be possible to have a situation where a program is rogue when working with solo affiliates, and is a good program when working with union members because the activity quota was removed from T&Cs for them.

    Again, if you want to benefit from this, there's an admission price. You shall not promote undoubtedly rogue programs even if they perform for you.

    Why? Because our ability to hit the program back is the only thing we got going for us, and this would act as a huge deterrent for rogue behavior.

    Want to promote rogue programs? That's perfectly fine. But you can't possibly be in a union with other affiliates then, as you will act in your own interest and will never act for the sake of a big picture.

    Big picture being, making a stand and telling programs rogue behavior is no longer tolerated, and if you want quality traffic from rich markets, and if you want to pay for it only when you earn money from it, getting all the link juice for free - you cannot be predatory of rogue. And if you go rogue you'll lose a chunk of this income stream.

    If affiliates are prepared to drop a brand when asked to, they most likely won't have to.

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to DanHorvat For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (3 August 2017), Online-casinos.co.uk (9 August 2017), Roulette Zeitung (4 August 2017), Triple7 (4 August 2017)

  7. #84
    Triple7 is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2015
    Posts
    2,817
    Thanks
    2,046
    Thanked 2,443 Times in 1,321 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by happyfeet View Post
    John and Mary are both adults operating their own affiliate businesses.
    How they decided to operate, who they decided to promote or not, is solely their choice.

    Hard lines drawn in the sand don't work. You can't rule affiliates with an iron fist. It is both counterproductive and alienates people.

    Reiterating a previous statement of mine, "change needs to come through educating the bean-counters (our affiliate program law makers) combined with positive reinforcement." I'll go on to add, that also includes educating newbie affiliates.

    No greenhorn (newbie) steps into this market and is instantly aware of who is a rogue and who is not (same goes for players too).

    Where do most new affiliates find this information?
    They learn it from affiliate forums like the GPWA/AGD etc, and peers (those who have been around a few years).

    They are, but if they don't drop a program gone rogue, going rogue has less effect and no effect if everybody acts like John and Mary. Bean counters will think twice if they know going rogue means that they lose a substantial income stream.

    In the end, John and Mary are adults and it's solely their choice to operate their business, but a choice for them might also be not entered in the union or leave it if they depend on just one rogue program.

    I wouldn't take such an organization too serious if members are promoting AffPower brands or something.

    I guess without action against rogue brands, it will be 'just' a middle man, like there are plenty of already.

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Triple7 For This Useful Post:

    DanHorvat (4 August 2017), Roulette Zeitung (4 August 2017), vardan (4 August 2017)

  9. #85
    DanHorvat's Avatar
    DanHorvat is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    November 2008
    Location
    Actual location may vary.
    Posts
    1,897
    Blog Entries
    3
    Thanks
    1,302
    Thanked 1,289 Times in 760 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple7 View Post
    I wouldn't take such an organization too serious if members are promoting AffPower brands or something.
    Spot on.

    Also, if criteria for membership include not cooperating with notorious rogue brands already, then there's even less chance that a member will have to drop a certain program down the road.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DanHorvat For This Useful Post:

    Roulette Zeitung (4 August 2017), vardan (4 August 2017)

  11. #86
    justbookies is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    September 2009
    Posts
    1,285
    Thanks
    521
    Thanked 863 Times in 512 Posts

    Default

    I see affiliate managers are already interested in being paid to run this union. What an irony.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to justbookies For This Useful Post:

    vardan (4 August 2017)

  13. #87
    vardan's Avatar
    vardan is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2014
    Location
    Barcelona, Spain
    Posts
    428
    Thanks
    383
    Thanked 226 Times in 155 Posts

    Default

    One of the solutions could be dropping them temporary. It will give them time to explain their motives, analyze the situation and make all the necessary steps to fix the situation. If in a short quarantine period the program doesn't provide explanation for its deeds, it must be dropped.


    During long years in the field where we are acting has accumulated a lot of trash and that is very dangerous for health and wealth. There are many good programs with good managers and products, but the trash doesn't let them breath and grow.


    We must clean the field by strict steps, but also we have to give the rogue programs time to make a decision. The term is clear, either they do fair business with the members of the union, or they are not presented on their portals.

    And the players? They lost a huge amount of money in rogue casinos and sportsbooks, they close their accounts or don't let them withdraw, by making false causes, so the union will protect them too.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to vardan For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (4 August 2017), Roulette Zeitung (4 August 2017)

  15. #88
    Triple7 is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2015
    Posts
    2,817
    Thanks
    2,046
    Thanked 2,443 Times in 1,321 Posts

  16. #89
    TheBoyMitchell is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2008
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    549
    Thanks
    253
    Thanked 281 Times in 178 Posts

    Default

    Exactly the person I thought would do this (as mentioned up thread) and totally the right man for the job

  17. #90
    TheGooner's Avatar
    TheGooner is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,263
    Thanks
    1,951
    Thanked 4,212 Times in 2,004 Posts

    Default

    Well I predict there will be zero submissions through their form for membership ...

    https://i-gaa.org/membership/
    They seem to have forgotten the submit button ...


    EDIT UPDATE :
    You can get something submitted on their contact us page - as that form does have a submit button.
    https://i-gaa.org/contact/
    Last edited by TheGooner; 18 September 2017 at 6:33 pm. Reason: found a method.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheGooner For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (18 September 2017), tomgalanis (20 September 2017)

  19. #91
    tomgalanis is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
    Join Date
    April 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    295
    Thanks
    82
    Thanked 193 Times in 100 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    Well I predict there will be zero submissions through their form for membership ...

    https://i-gaa.org/membership/
    They seem to have forgotten the submit button ...


    EDIT UPDATE :
    You can get something submitted on their contact us page - as that form does have a submit button.
    https://i-gaa.org/contact/
    Ha - thanks TheGooner. Fixed. Obviously the site is a WIP. More info to follow for those interested, but you should be able to register an interest now!

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to tomgalanis For This Useful Post:

    TheBoyMitchell (20 September 2017)

  21. #92
    Top Domains's Avatar
    Top Domains is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2016
    Posts
    344
    Thanks
    67
    Thanked 123 Times in 94 Posts

    Default

    Looked at the tail end of this thread here to see what's going on. Union ay? Indeed, have thought about that before too since there is not exactly a lot of regulation and protection around.

    Okay, so regarding the right man or woman for such a job:

    Is it not the biggest no-brainer one could ever even imagine that J. Todd is the right person for such a job if he wanted and was willing to do it?

  22. #93
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    November 2012
    Posts
    3,062
    Thanks
    12,211
    Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,686 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Domains View Post
    Looked at the tail end of this thread here to see what's going on. Union ay? Indeed, have thought about that before too since there is not exactly a lot of regulation and protection around.

    Okay, so regarding the right man or woman for such a job:

    Is it not the biggest no-brainer one could ever even imagine that J. Todd is the right person for such a job if he wanted and was willing to do it?
    The talk is that Tom Glanis is the right person for the job - though I am not really certain why that is... (note - not being negative, just really wondering what makes him the right man for the task)?

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to -Shay- For This Useful Post:

    Roulette Zeitung (6 November 2017)

  24. #94
    TheBoyMitchell is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2008
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    549
    Thanks
    253
    Thanked 281 Times in 178 Posts

    Default

    Tom has the contacts on both sides of the industry to make this work. And he will

    Just because you don't know him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. He's the right man for the job

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to TheBoyMitchell For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (21 September 2017)

  26. #95
    TheGooner's Avatar
    TheGooner is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,263
    Thanks
    1,951
    Thanked 4,212 Times in 2,004 Posts

    Default

    Agreed. Tom has the credentials and knowledge on both sides of the affiliate/program fence.
    He's put his hand up, and is willing to try to get it kicked off, for zero remuneration.

    Kudos for that - I'm in to offer whatever help I can.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to TheGooner For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (21 September 2017)

  28. #96
    Top Domains's Avatar
    Top Domains is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2016
    Posts
    344
    Thanks
    67
    Thanked 123 Times in 94 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    The talk is that Tom Glanis is the right person for the job - though I am not really certain why that is... (note - not being negative, just really wondering what makes him the right man for the task)?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoyMitchell View Post
    Tom has the contacts on both sides of the industry to make this work. And he will

    Just because you don't know him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. He's the right man for the job
    Right, clearly the talk here before I posted is about some other person I don't know.

    So that's the talk. And the new question is, which I don't mind repeating, isn't J. Todd a no-brainer bigger than anyone could even imagine.

    And guess what?

    I don't know J. Todd either. Not personally.

    But I do know "people." Yes, that I know.

    And I also know unions. And I know you have to be careful about unions too, and they can wind up being just as bad as the reason why they were formed in the first place, or close to it.

    And guess what else? Even though I do not know J. Todd personally, I don't think I'm out on any shaky limb whatsoever in suggesting that it seems clear enough to someone even with only my limited knowledge of the man that he probably also has "the contacts on both sides of the industry" a hundred times over. Or at least ten.

    So someone has put his hand up. Well has anyone even asked J. Todd or thought of him before my post? And as far as remuneration goes, I'm not exactly sure about the wisdom of that. When I suggested J. Todd I certainly had in mind him being well paid, and I have every confidence he would be worth it in spades a hundred times over too.
    Last edited by Top Domains; 21 September 2017 at 6:24 pm.

  29. #97
    TheGooner's Avatar
    TheGooner is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,263
    Thanks
    1,951
    Thanked 4,212 Times in 2,004 Posts

    Default

    Did you even look at the site or the organisation?

    This is a UK group - formed out of a UK meeting of interested affiliates - and the first focus is SkyBet which is a UK market problem.
    Source : https://i-gaa.org/international-regulation/

    The iGAA is currently working with prospective membership to devise a Code of Practice to which members will be required to conduct their operations.

    The Code will initially be based in accordance with UK law and to ensure compliance for members delivering traffic to the UK market, before we seek to adapt it for affiliates driving traffic to other regulated and EU betting and gaming markets.

    So given that - No - J.Todd is not the man to start with.

    He is a fine individual. Full of enthusiam and showmanship. But he's not the man to lead this group now. He's US based, US centric, and quite frankly the US is f#$ked with very little discussion to be had with anyone until there is federal legislation that allows online gambling groups to be based and run out of the US.

  30. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheGooner For This Useful Post:

    -Shay- (21 September 2017), TheBoyMitchell (22 September 2017)

  31. #98
    Top Domains's Avatar
    Top Domains is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    December 2016
    Posts
    344
    Thanks
    67
    Thanked 123 Times in 94 Posts

    Default

    Well since you put it that way, Gooner, I'll just say that there is form, like enthusiam and showmanship, and there is substance, like intelligence, principles and passion. Some people have one or the other, and some people have both. I particularly like both, and my assessment of Mr. J. Todd from a distance goes far beyond enthusiam and showmanship. Felt like it was worth a try.

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to Top Domains For This Useful Post:

    TheGooner (21 September 2017)

  33. #99
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
    Join Date
    November 2012
    Posts
    3,062
    Thanks
    12,211
    Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,686 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoyMitchell View Post
    Tom has the contacts on both sides of the industry to make this work. And he will

    Just because you don't know him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. He's the right man for the job
    I didn't imply he doesn't exist. I asked why he was viewed as the right person for the job. It was a serious question rather than a smartass or sarcastic one and I was indicating that so there was no confusion.

  34. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to -Shay- For This Useful Post:

    TheBoyMitchell (22 September 2017), TheGooner (21 September 2017)

  35. #100
    Cash Bonus's Avatar
    Cash Bonus is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,012
    Thanks
    8,248
    Thanked 2,491 Times in 1,779 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    I didn't imply he doesn't exist. I asked why he was viewed as the right person for the job. It was a serious question rather than a smartass or sarcastic one and I was indicating that so there was no confusion.
    Hello Shay,

    I hope you're well today?


    Yes, of course, I was thinking the exact same thing as you.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •