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  1. #1
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    Angry There Used To Be A Time..

    There used to be a time that it was fun and nice to be a gambling / casino affiliate you know.

    Now, all we see is TOS this, TOS that, bring in more than 5 FTD's per month or else your account will die or we'll pay you less. Without any shame, affiliate programs bring affiliates from 40% commission to, 10%... All while the 'last version of the TOS' mentioned that it was 'lifetime' commission etc. etc.

    To those affiliate managers: How dare you. Can't you come up with anything better? May I remind you that you may think working 5 days a week for about 8 to 9 hours is much, I can tell you that I know many, including myself, who would dream of such luxury. We work SEVEN days, more than 15 hours per day. And you simply cut commissions / players and the likes as if no tomorrow.

    I think, we affiliates should have our own TOS binding for all casino affiliate programs:

    If the casinos don't make 5 FTD's out of 100 sign ups, the affiliate should go to 50% commission, just as long as that the casino manages to actually convert.

    For example sake I use my own account with one of the affiliate programs:

    Jan - July 2016
    470 sign ups
    55 FTD's

    Jan - July 2017
    680 sign ups
    18 FTD's

    Traffic on the other hand, has grown. More visitors each month, but well.. If I don't bring in enough FTD's I am the one getting punished... Something is wrong here. For sure.

    On top of this: Casino affiliate programs have become lazy. Read it again. LAZY!! Most if not all of them. Logging in to a casino affiliate account to see that the latest news is.. from 2012?? How is that NOT lazy??

    Since they're losing out a little, and don't understand why, they try to motivate by punishment. If you don't bring in enough players, we'll cut your commission etc. Nice trend, but no thank you.

    Try motivation by reward and you'd be surprised to see just how many of us will work EVEN harder.

    I am fed up by your arrogant, ignorant way of dealing with affiliates.

    You are there where you are, BECAUSE of us.

    Thanks.

    PS: To add to this, the 1180 sign ups I've sent to the program are impossible for me to market to. On the other side of the box, the affiliate program now has 1180 new prospects to email their other brands to, obviously without the appropriate affiliate link embedded...

    It's just not fair.

    PPS: This all obviously does not count for the notorious casino hackers. They flourish their business with little to no effort, using their hacking robots, and are more than likely laughing their heads off, while enjoying yet another 'well deserved' tropical holiday.
    Last edited by Top Online Casinos; 30 July 2017 at 2:13 pm.

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  3. #2
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    This is a great post!

    As affiliates, we are guilty of enabling programs to do such things to us. If we would just once band together and contest this treatment in a legal forum rather than taking payoffs or turning a blind eye then programs would get the clear message that they cannot practice business in such a way.

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    This is a great post!

    As affiliates, we are guilty of enabling programs to do such things to us. If we would just once band together and contest this treatment in a legal forum rather than taking payoffs or turning a blind eye then programs would get the clear message that they cannot practice business in such a way.
    There used to be a time too, that there were gambling affiliate forums for the gambling affiliates... Where we would be united. Now, not so much. There are those forums, that If we talk about a 'non sponsoring affiliate program' we get censorship in our blog on that forum, and told to not promote 'non sponsor affiliate programs'.. EVEN THOUGH all affiliates would benefit from signing up with this 'non sponsor affiliate program', but hey...

    Signatures get removed if one should dare to mention a non sponsor affiliate program...

    But, it is not the forums I am disappointed at. It has been clear for years they are here for the money, not for the affiliates. And if they are here for the affiliates, then it is simply to refer them, and then to make them mouth death again by forgetting about them.

    It's a shame.

    I want better conditions for all affiliates, or we should really get together and boycott the lot.

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    This is a great post!
    I forgot to thank you for your kind words

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    This is a great post!

    As affiliates, we are guilty of enabling programs to do such things to us. If we would just once band together and contest this treatment in a legal forum rather than taking payoffs or turning a blind eye then programs would get the clear message that they cannot practice business in such a way.
    'Organisations' like GPWA of course could take a lead in this, but they're not really an organisation are they - instead they are very hands off and don't want to bite the hand that feeds them = pointless.

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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Online Casinos View Post
    There used to be a time too, that there were gambling affiliate forums for the gambling affiliates... Where we would be united. Now, not so much. There are those forums, that If we talk about a 'non sponsoring affiliate program' we get censorship in our blog on that forum, and told to not promote 'non sponsor affiliate programs'.. EVEN THOUGH all affiliates would benefit from signing up with this 'non sponsor affiliate program', but hey...

    Signatures get removed if one should dare to mention a non sponsor affiliate program...

    But, it is not the forums I am disappointed at. It has been clear for years they are here for the money, not for the affiliates. And if they are here for the affiliates, then it is simply to refer them, and then to make them mouth death again by forgetting about them.

    It's a shame.

    I want better conditions for all affiliates, or we should really get together and boycott the lot.
    These forums create both a false sense of security for affiliates in general and they also create a false sense of "banding together". They are generally self-serving and tend to take action more in perception than in reality. To me, it is no coincidence that this forum here finally took a real stand only when their revenue stream was directly impacted (ie - Foxy Bingo).

    I'd love to see an organization emerge that was a true advocate for us in the industry rather than merely for show and preservation of one's own revenue stream.

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  13. #7
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    I have every new program agree to my terms i send them and return to me via email before I add them. Not sure how strong this is but one day Ill find out!
    Allfreechips online casino guide offers online casino reviews from our members. Also our exclusive No Deposit casino bonuses are always up to date. See the latest slot machine reviews at Hotslot and exclusive no deposit casino bonuses as well with a good dose of daily online gambling news to learn about pokies

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  15. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacingJim View Post
    'Organisations' like GPWA of course could take a lead in this, but they're not really an organisation are they - instead they are very hands off and don't want to bite the hand that feeds them = pointless.
    Here we hit the nail on the head for as far as the forums go.

    I would hope, affiliate managers would read this too. And, scratch themselves on the back of the head and come to the conclusion that if they change their TOS to benefit and assist the affiliate to get better, that if he is the first, he will be flooded with well willing hard working affiliates.

    It has gone completely the wrong way. Lots of time, due to arrogance. And, there are many more reasons.

    Bottom-line is: We the affiliates deserve a lot more. Period.

    NOTHING is secure for us. Where the affiliate manager will get his money paid at the end of the month, we? We may hope it is like that.

    I have not had that old fashioned good feeling of security since many years now..

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by allfreechips View Post
    I have every new program agree to my terms i send them and return to me via email before I add them. Not sure how strong this is but one day Ill find out!
    I am assuming none of them signed it so far, right?

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  19. #10
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    The paysafe group (neteller/skrill) will use your depositing players to send / show them exclusive bonuses but hey what can expect from a former party gaming director running a payment processor......

    https://www.gpwa.org/forum/screwy-sk...-a-240083.html

    They are now trying to dominate the industry. ..
    Last edited by GCG; 30 July 2017 at 10:12 am.

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  21. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCG View Post
    The paysafe group (neteller/skrill) will use your depositing players to send / show them exclusive bonuses but hey what can expect from a former party gaming director runing a payment processor......
    Sorry.. What has this to do with the subject of my thread here??
    Last edited by Top Online Casinos; 30 July 2017 at 2:00 pm.

  22. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Online Casinos View Post
    Sorry.. What on earth has this to do with the subject of my thread here??
    It relates in that paysafe/income access are run by the same company - a "related" business venture for them but it operates very much contrary to our best interests as affiliates.

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  24. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    It relates in that paysafe/income access are run by the same company - a "related" business venture for them but it operates very much contrary to our best interests as affiliates.
    Right, I get that now. Pardon my ignorance @GCG

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  26. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Online Casinos View Post
    I am assuming none of them signed it so far, right?
    Every program in last year I added have agreed in email to this and returned to me.
    Allfreechips online casino guide offers online casino reviews from our members. Also our exclusive No Deposit casino bonuses are always up to date. See the latest slot machine reviews at Hotslot and exclusive no deposit casino bonuses as well with a good dose of daily online gambling news to learn about pokies

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  28. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by allfreechips View Post
    Every program in last year I added have agreed in email to this and returned to me.
    I would love to read your TOS you gave them to agree on in that case. Unfortunately I was not able to find any TOS (or privacy statement) on your site at all, so it must not be public? With all due respect, I find it a little bit hard to believe any of the affiliate programs you work with agreed and therefor legally bind themselves on anything concrete, other than that they themselves may always included a clause like: "in case we don't like it, our TOS counts and yours don't" type of thing.

    I am working as a casino affiliate for more than a decade, and I would be (pleasantly for sure) surprised to see the programs you're working with right now in fact agreed to your TOS.

    This is important to all of us. So, please consider sharing the TOS.

    If all of the programs actually signed and agreed, I think half the battle is already won.

  29. #16
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    I do sometimes let them sign or approve some additional terms, like no quota are applicable, no placement / activity requirements, agreed rev share is unconditional and lifetime, etc.

    For what's it worth. Most payments are coming from companies based in BVI, Curacao, etc. It doesn't make too much sense to start legal action there. Also in some jurisdictions there's no such thing as an electronic sign and most affiliate managers formally are not allowed to make any legal deals.

    Not everybody agrees with it. Some brands are wanting a position and are wanting that that position is also unconditional, even if it's not performing as it should.

    In my opinion affiliates, including myself, should professionalize a bit also with this sort of things and have some framework t&c to which a program has to agree, with things like:

    - revenue is lifetime, in case of leaving a market or ceasing business, the casino has to pay a buy-out of the revenue of the last x-months.
    - stats that have to be provided at least
    - a serious jurisdiction where a conflict can be put to court
    - be open about who's doing business with who
    - no quota, activity requirements, etc.

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  31. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple7 View Post
    I do sometimes let them sign or approve some additional terms, like no quota are applicable, no placement / activity requirements, agreed rev share is unconditional and lifetime, etc.

    For what's it worth. Most payments are coming from companies based in BVI, Curacao, etc. It doesn't make too much sense to start legal action there. Also in some jurisdictions there's no such thing as an electronic sign and most affiliate managers formally are not allowed to make any legal deals.

    Not everybody agrees with it. Some brands are wanting a position and are wanting that that position is also unconditional, even if it's not performing as it should.

    In my opinion affiliates, including myself, should professionalize a bit also with this sort of things and have some framework t&c to which a program has to agree, with things like:

    - revenue is lifetime, in case of leaving a market or ceasing business, the casino has to pay a buy-out of the revenue of the last x-months.
    - stats that have to be provided at least
    - a serious jurisdiction where a conflict can be put to court
    - be open about who's doing business with who
    - no quota, activity requirements, etc.
    It's funny and a little bit sad and I don't want to say it to insult you at all, but.. At the same time in one post, you come up with the solution you use, and you also instantly claim it to be useless a few sentences later. It's not worth anything. Because, well.. It just won't do anything.

    You are right: Nobody we deal with as affiliates is allowed to agree to anything legal. And, a TOS would just be that, won't it?

    As 'regular' affiliates, we so far have no foot to stand on. We're NEVER sure if we get paid, and how much.

    And, as per usual, we've got to swallow whatever the TOS puts on the menu.
    Last edited by Top Online Casinos; 30 July 2017 at 2:41 pm.

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    ok I dont usually share but here we go

    Code:
    Requirements for addition to allfreechips
    
    
    XX% Revshare with no negative Carry over for life.  This is without restrictions / quotas / or placement requirements.  Account can not be closed while there are any active players.
    
    
    100X80 Transparent PNG of your logo (best if works on white and color backgrounds)
    
    
    Full review created that is unique or a $50 pre paid surcharge to have one created.
    
    
    468X60 and 125X125 Gif banners
    
    
    Standard html tracking links
    
    
    List of Software(s) used for casino
    
    
    License Holder
    
    
    List of banks you can deposit with and Withdraw
    
    
    List of banks tou can only withdraw with
    
    
    List of banks you can only deposit with
    
    
    Text list of restricted countries
    
    
    BONUSES:
    
    
    Name :
    Code : 
    Deoposit Amount (max) :
    Deposit Bonus (max) :
    Bonus % :
    No Deposit :
    Free Spins :
    Playthrough : X
    Bonus + Deposit for playthrough? : Y/N
    Max Cashout if any :
    Exclusive to AFC : Y/N
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    This needs to be agreed upon, and send via email to chris@trenkas.com before any additions are made.
    
    
    Chris  skype : XXXXXXXX
    Allfreechips.com networks
    Allfreechips online casino guide offers online casino reviews from our members. Also our exclusive No Deposit casino bonuses are always up to date. See the latest slot machine reviews at Hotslot and exclusive no deposit casino bonuses as well with a good dose of daily online gambling news to learn about pokies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Online Casinos View Post
    It's funny and a little bit sad and I don't want to say it to insult you at all, but.. At the same time in one post, you come up with the solution you use, and you also instantly claim it to be useless a few sentences later. It's not worth anything. Because, well.. It just won't do anything.

    You are right: Nobody we deal with as affiliates is allowed to agree to anything legal. And, a TOS would just be that, won't it?

    As 'regular' affiliates, we so far have no foot to stand on. We're NEVER sure if we get paid, and how much.

    And, as per usual, we've got to swallow whatever the TOS puts on the menu.
    To be fair, any solution we come up with or are working with currently is not a silver bullet. Even a standard real world, above the table industry can have a party back out of a contract or choose to ignore certain clauses.

    What it does, however, is gives the affiliate better footing in pursuing action. Just like a patent, it is only as strong as the willingness to enforce it.

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  37. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by allfreechips View Post
    ok I dont usually share but here we go

    Code:
    Requirements for addition to allfreechips
    
    
    XX% Revshare with no negative Carry over for life.  This is without restrictions / quotas / or placement requirements.  Account can not be closed while there are any active players.
    
    
    100X80 Transparent PNG of your logo (best if works on white and color backgrounds)
    
    
    Full review created that is unique or a $50 pre paid surcharge to have one created.
    
    
    468X60 and 125X125 Gif banners
    
    
    Standard html tracking links
    
    
    List of Software(s) used for casino
    
    
    License Holder
    
    
    List of banks you can deposit with and Withdraw
    
    
    List of banks tou can only withdraw with
    
    
    List of banks you can only deposit with
    
    
    Text list of restricted countries
    
    
    BONUSES:
    
    
    Name :
    Code : 
    Deoposit Amount (max) :
    Deposit Bonus (max) :
    Bonus % :
    No Deposit :
    Free Spins :
    Playthrough : X
    Bonus + Deposit for playthrough? : Y/N
    Max Cashout if any :
    Exclusive to AFC : Y/N
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    This needs to be agreed upon, and send via email to chris@trenkas.com before any additions are made.
    
    
    Chris  skype : XXXXXXXX
    Allfreechips.com networks
    Thank you for sharing this. But I have to say that now I really find it hard to believe. Are you saying that for instance Legend Affiliates, or Martyn Beacon rather, has signed and agreed to all of this? Casino Max is on your site, and you stated all programs you've added agreed. On the Legend Affiliate site, you can clearly see that no deals are done. Their TOS states:

    8.2 The program will not enter into any exclusive marketing arrangement with a single marketing partner.

    How did you do that then?

    Sorry to be nosy, just curious, as it could benefit all affiliates and that includes me. If this works with all affiliate programs, I too will have a professional person write and set up my business TOS and have casino affiliate programs sign it. I just find it hard to believe they will.

    Gwages casinos too. Did they sign for all this?

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