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  1. #41
    Christoff is offline Public Member
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    This is an absolute shambles - it's a disgrace this is going on. This is all due to greed.

    This gives a bad name to the whole industry and makes everyone's job a little harder (affiliates, affiliate managers etc).

    Everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves - this should be dealt with in court or with the authorities (not in front of the industry which creates a bad taste for all reading).

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  3. #42
    ubutu is offline Public Member
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    Default Affcoins [RIVAL] is online

    Quote Originally Posted by dfiocch View Post
    Affcoins is down.
    .
    Dear Affiliate,


    Everyone at AFFcoins and Rival Gaming has been working hard to restore access to our websites and we can now confirm that all our services are back up and running. While there might still be some sporadic disruption of service, we are confident that all our websites will soon be 100% available. The technical team at Rival Gaming will keep monitoring the situation.


    We would like to thank you all once again for your patience.


    Best regards,
    The AFFcoins team

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  5. #43
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    Topgame wishes to address every single issue on the above post and be completely transparent.

    Having studied the chat scripts; we think this new member “Ted Kortis” (which we believe to be Gabi) is underestimating and misjudging the intelligence of the forums’ readers.

    We would like to start to address the fake chat scripts he posted above. The below reply will only be dedicated to the chat scripts he posted earlier today. Not only are the chat scripts fake, they are also absurd. For example; why would a software provider see an affiliate program as a threat?

    Topgame would like to clearly state that his chat scripts are completely fabricated and as such never took place.

    After looking into the chat scripts we found that there would be 2 ways of faking them

    1. Photoshop / paintbrush – editing existing images and texts
    2. Creating a fake skype conversation among themselves; Please click here to see a short video showing how we believe they did it.

    Please click here to see a short video showing how we believe they did it.

    If they want to prove that their chat is real, they should eliminate both of the above options

    Eliminate option 1

    Please provide a video where you scroll down on the skype chat conversation

    Eliminate option 2

    We see the conversation started on the 13th. “It seems from the start of the conversation that there is previous history

    why is it so urgent to come online ?
    [11/13/2011 8:07:43 PM] Dave TG: I had a discussion with Josh,.

    Please provide any history (from before the 13th of November) between the so called “Dave TG” and your acquaintance “Ron”. Skype saves one year of history. You could set up a screen sharing session with any of the forum owners or any other 3rd party to authenticate the chat history.

    It is clear to us that you will not be able to provide the evidence to eliminate both of the above 2 possibilities because such evidence doesn’t exist. We on the contrary, will happily provide all proofs required to authenticate the chat scripts of our conversation with Gabi.

    Please also note: The screenshots posted by “Ted Korbis” were created on the 14th of November. In skype the word “Today” next to the date only displays on that particular day. “Today, Monday, November 14, 2011” This means that the screenshot was made on the 14th, otherwise it would say “Monday, November 14, 2011”.

    http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...5/image001.png

    Given that all this was fabricated on the 14th, it once again shows that Gabi commits these attacks systematically and is well prepared. This attack against Topgame was also well planned. He even fakes evidence to back up his accusations. He has experience in the field of extortion as he has been in this situation many times before, read below…

    http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...5/image007.jpg

    A person willing to go to the extent of DDoS attacks, hacking, extortion, and on top of all that, creating fake evidence accusing others of doing the same cannot be trusted. We kindly ask you to take this into consideration when you read these posts.

    Happy Thanksgiving,
    Last edited by MichaelCorfman; 17 December 2012 at 7:12 am. Reason: Removed spurious font specifications (a whole page of them) that were obscuring the content of the post.

  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubutu View Post
    The AFFcoins team
    Thank you for your reply.

  7. #45
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    Default TopGame Statement

    Topgame wishes to address every single issue on the above post and be completely transparent.

    Having studied the chat scripts; we think this new member “Ted Kortis” (which we believe to be Gabi) is underestimating and misjudging the intelligence of the forums’ readers.

    We would like to start to address the fake chat scripts he posted above. The below reply will only be dedicated to the chat scripts he posted earlier today. Not only are the chat scripts fake, they are also absurd. For example; why would a software provider see an affiliate program as a threat?

    Topgame would like to clearly state that his chat scripts are completely fabricated and as such never took place.

    After looking into the chat scripts we found that there would be 2 ways of faking them

    1. Photoshop / paintbrush – editing existing images and texts
    2. Creating a fake skype conversation among themselves; Please click here to see a short video showing how we believe they did it.

    Please click here to see a short video showing how we believe they did it.

    If they want to prove that their chat is real, they should eliminate both of the above options

    Eliminate option 1

    Please provide a video where you scroll down on the skype chat conversation

    Eliminate option 2

    We see the conversation started on the 13th. “It seems from the start of the conversation that there is previous history

    why is it so urgent to come online ?
    [11/13/2011 8:07:43 PM] Dave TG: I had a discussion with Josh,.

    Please provide any history (from before the 13th of November) between the so called “Dave TG” and your acquaintance “Ron”. Skype saves one year of history. You could set up a screen sharing session with any of the forum owners or any other 3rd party to authenticate the chat history.

    It is clear to us that you will not be able to provide the evidence to eliminate both of the above 2 possibilities because such evidence doesn’t exist. We on the contrary, will happily provide all proofs required to authenticate the chat scripts of our conversation with Gabi.

    Please also note: The screenshots posted by “Ted Korbis” were created on the 14th of November. In skype the word “Today” next to the date only displays on that particular day. “Today, Monday, November 14, 2011” This means that the screenshot was made on the 14th, otherwise it would say “Monday, November 14, 2011”.

    http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...5/image001.png

    Given that all this was fabricated on the 14th, it once again shows that Gabi commits these attacks systematically and is well prepared. This attack against Topgame was also well planned. He even fakes evidence to back up his accusations. He has experience in the field of extortion as he has been in this situation many times before, read below…

    http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...5/image002.png

    A person willing to go to the extent of DDoS attacks, hacking, extortion, and on top of all that, creating fake evidence accusing others of doing the same cannot be trusted. We kindly ask you to take this into consideration when you read these posts.

    Happy Thanksgiving,


    Topgame Management
    Last edited by MichaelCorfman; 17 December 2012 at 7:11 am. Reason: Removed spurious font specifications (a whole page of them) that were obscuring the content of the post.

  8. #46
    noahromecasino is offline Former AM
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    Default Response from Rome Partners

    Hello to all,

    The post by Affactive is undeniably an attempt to derail this thread from its original purpose - the vicious DDoS attack and extortion of TG and Rome Partners. The very fact that Affactive POSTED links to our database means that have either hacked it or stolen it somehow. We would very much like to know exactly which of these highly illegal actions it is.

    Our response to these accusations, which we are more than happy to give:

    1. The charges that we are shaving, and shaving 80% of our players, is simply untrue. We and AffActive have most of the same affiliates and here Ted was claiming that somehow, all of these top affiliate sites that promote Rome Partners didn't notice an 80% difference in net gaming? Does this mean that Rome Partners gets 80% more player net worth than anyone else? I think we all know that would not be within the realm of possibility.

    2. The 'Untag' button is a simple aid we use and frankly should be in any affiliate system. It has various uses, such as: An affiliate shuts down and wants us to buy out his remaining players for a one time sum. An affiliae has a player with a lot of negative carryover. An affiliate was tagged wrongly due to human, IP, or even system failure (which we've had very few of until the recent attacks). Affiliate moves from a Rev Share deal to a full CPA deal. Our affiliates would have noticed an 80% difference I believe, if we had used this untag button to 'shave' them with it.

    3. Most importantly and most alarming here is that, for the very first time in this forum, an official rep of a group of online casinos is not denying it can and has hacked into other databases. To nonchalantly declare that they have hacked, in the past and now, another casino's backoffice, and in the process got enough graphics to fake anything they'd like, is a scary thought.

    Please do not allow this to derail the original purpose of the thread. Affactive IS undeniably GoldVIP. Affactive DOES commit DDOS attacks and illegal hacking. Affactive DOES hack systems and steal data. Affactive DOES extort, intimidate and attack both other operators and affiliates. Win Palace IS Gold VIP, and I think we all know what kind of group that is and how it operates.

    Look, guys, we don't want to continue making a mockery of our industry in this way. We have presented information and evidence, and Affactive has just admitted to hacking. We will not continue to air out everyone's dirty laundry and post verbal attacks, it doesn't help anyone. As long as we keep players and affiliates happy, then that is all that counts. But that can't happen when we can be attacked at any time. It is impossible to operate under such conditions and it costs everyone when it happens.

    This is our final post. We will leave it to you to draw your own conclusions from all that you have heard, some of you first hand, and have read here in the last few days.


    Have a happy Thanksgiving,

    Noah

    Rome Partners
    Last edited by noahromecasino; 25 November 2011 at 1:23 pm.

  9. #47
    AllTruth is offline Public Member
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    G'day everyone.

    My Name is Ted.

    Till now I didn’t come forward with this information as it was my belief that certain things should not be discussed on internet forums (as CasinoMeister pointed out). Unfortunately as we now all see, TopGame and Rome do not share these beliefs.

    Therefore, I have no choice but to make this information public.

    It will not surprise you that this entire issue revolves around “players”. As you all know from the past years while working with Affactive enjoyed very high conversion rates and earnings. I will now tell the trick how almost any affiliate program can generate such high and stable results: Simply don’t shave the affiliates.

    In Affactive, we never shaved; the option doesn’t exist in our software.
    As the data below clearly shows, TopGame and Rome have a system to shave and transfer the players. What they do is untagg (remove the affiliate tracking from the player) with decreasing percentages starting from the top depositors and working their way downwards.

    They do this on 2 levels:
    1. On the casino brand level: the casino operator clicks “Untagg” in TopGame admin (thus removing the player from the affiliate)



    2. On TopGame software level: TopGame on systematic basis allows Rome partners access to the data bases of all their brands. Rome then uses mailers, phone calls and all possible advertising techniques, including 3rd parties, transferring those players (which are tagged to affiliates in other brands) to Rome partners without the affiliate tag.



    We have discovered it awhile ago and requested several times from TopGame management to not allow Rome partners this rogue behavior towards operators and affiliates. Unfortunately, as you can see in the screenshots posted by “Dave/Scott” they have not changed their ways. This type of behavior has earned TopGame and Rome partners more than a handful of enemies.

    Furthermore, I was contacted through one of my acquaintances and provided the below screenshots and messages, that clearly showing that TopGame and Rome Partners are the people behind the attack on Affactive. "image's + Full Chat log will be in the end of my post"

    Again, I didn’t want it to come to this, but I’m sure you will agree that shaving players from your affiliates and from your white label and then attacks you after being confronted on these matters, is unacceptable.


    *You can download the complete stats file of Rome Partners from the link below.
    Preview:



    Everyone IN THE Industry Must Download This Date!!!


    Links listed here removed by GPWA staff - see note below.

    Note: It is the opinion of GPWA administrative staff that confidential data regarding the players associated with individual affiliates is contained in this file. We do not believe that widespread disclosure of this data is appropriate. Once we have more thoroughly reviewed the information will will make a determination what data is appropriate for release.

    You will see that Rome Partners have a mathematical system of untagging the players.

    - Top VIP 50 depositors: only 16 are tagged to an affiliate – less than 33%.
    - The following 100 top depositors: only 63% are tagged to the affiliate.
    - The bottom 2000: over 87% is tagged to an affiliate.

    That’s not all: as I said, only 16 out of top 50 are tagged to an affiliate. Out of those 16, 8 are tagged to an affiliate that goes by the name CharlesR, but should really be called Josh C, since it’s a pseudo affiliate created by Rome Partners in order to keep track of certain high roller players that they have stolen from others. Which leaves 8 players out of top 50 that are still tagged to an affiliate = 16%.

    What these numbers mean in $: Out the $7,197,000 of deposits (during the specific time frame of this report), only $2,250,000 are tracked to the affiliates. $5 Millions have been shaved from affiliates and operators.


    ---

    As many have said: these issues should not be discusses on the forum. All the docs, chats can be easily ‎faked. For that reason and since Michael or any other forum owner for that matter, is not the legal ‎authority to deal and judge on these matters, there is one way only to solve this: legal actions. ‎

    Rome history, from the very beginning until this, hopefully last, event, been not other then shady and ‎full with rogue incidents. ‎

    We cannot and we will not allow Rome to drug us down with their sinking ship. ‎

    There is one way to get to clean this up: to take it to the court. With all due respect: If you get robbed: ‎you call the police, you don’t run to the forums. ‎

    From all you that have been working with us for the past years: We have proved ourselves to be a ‎strong, honest and professional program. We ask you one thing only: judge us for what you know and ‎not from what you hear. ‎
    Last edited by MichaelCorfman; 17 December 2012 at 7:04 am. Reason: Edited to remove links to detailed player financial data pending further review and Josh's last name.

  10. #48
    noahromecasino is offline Former AM
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    Once again AffActive has tried to post illegally obtained and hacked data from our servers.

  11. #49
    AllTruth is offline Public Member
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    Last edited by MichaelCorfman; Today at 4:22 pm. Reason: Edited to remove links to detailed player financial data pending further review.

    Thank You Michael : )
    Please contact me via skype: Ted.Korbis

    I'll provide you downlaod link.

    5 Millione shaved is not all, we have tons of proofs about whole topgame & romepartners dark/black/shaving opearation.

    Edit!
    Please do not contact me if you're not a Forum Member.
    Last edited by AllTruth; 25 November 2011 at 3:15 pm.

  12. #50
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    Topgame wishes to address every single issue on the above post and be completely transparent.

    Having studied the chat scripts; we think the Affactive rep (which we believe to be Gabi) is underestimating and misjudging the intelligence of the forums’ readers.

    We would like to start to address the fake chat scripts he posted above. The below reply will only be dedicated to the chat scripts he posted earlier today. Not only are the chat scripts fake, they are also absurd. For example; why would a software provider see an affiliate program as a threat?

    Topgame would like to clearly state that his chat scripts are completely fabricated and as such never took place.

    After looking into the chat scripts we found that there would be 2 ways of faking them

    1. Photoshop / paintbrush – editing existing images and texts
    2. Creating a fake skype conversation among themselves; Please click here to see a short video showing how we believe they did it.

    Please click here to see a short video showing how we believe they did it.

    If they want to prove that their chat is real, they should eliminate both of the above options

    Eliminate option 1

    Please provide a video where you scroll down on the skype chat conversation

    Eliminate option 2

    We see the conversation started on the 13th. “It seems from the start of the conversation that there is previous history

    why is it so urgent to come online ?
    [11/13/2011 8:07:43 PM] Dave TG: I had a discussion with Josh,.

    Please provide any history (from before the 13th of November) between the so called “Dave TG” and your acquaintance “Ron”. Skype saves one year of history. You could set up a screen sharing session with any of the forum owners or any other 3rd party to authenticate the chat history.

    It is clear to us that you will not be able to provide the evidence to eliminate both of the above 2 possibilities because such evidence doesn’t exist. We on the contrary, will happily provide all proofs required to authenticate the chat scripts of our conversation with Gabi.

    Please also note: The screenshots posted by the Affactive rep were created on the 14th of November. In skype the word “Today” next to the date only displays on that particular day. “Today, Monday, November 14, 2011” This means that the screenshot was made on the 14th, otherwise it would say “Monday, November 14, 2011”.

    http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...5/image001.png

    Given that all this was fabricated on the 14th, it once again shows that Gabi commits these attacks systematically and is well prepared. This attack against Topgame was also well planned. He even fakes evidence to back up his accusations. He has experience in the field of extortion as he has been in this situation many times before, read below…

    http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...5/image002.png

    A person willing to go to the extent of DDoS attacks, hacking, extortion, and on top of all that, creating fake evidence accusing others of doing the same cannot be trusted. We kindly ask you to take this into consideration when you read these posts.

    Happy Thanksgiving,

  13. #51
    casinobonusguy is offline Private Member
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    Scott ,
    Have you bothered to read some other threads on GPWA in last couple days?We have a member going through treatment for breast cancer , Another member lost his mother in law at the age of 57 suddenly this week and there is a member here who posted she could not afford her thanksgiving dinner.You guys have all posted enough already ,the same message goes to Affactive side ,lawyer up like the rest of the world does and have your day in court.If Affactive and Rome are posting here for us to draw a line in the sand and pick a side it won't happen ,we all have our own real life problem to get involved in your battles.

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  15. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by casinobonusguy View Post
    Scott ,
    Have you bothered to read some other threads on GPWA in last couple days?We have a member going through treatment for breast cancer , Another member lost his mother in law at the age of 57 suddenly this week and there is a member here who posted she could not afford her thanksgiving dinner.You guys have all posted enough already ,the same message goes to Affactive side ,lawyer up like the rest of the world does and have your day in court.If Affactive and Rome are posting here for us to draw a line in the sand and pick a side it won't happen ,we all have our own real life problem to get involved in your battles.
    While i genuinely sympathise with the various posters in difficult and tragic situations that you reference here CBG, it seems to me that this thread is relevant to the informational topic that is the foundation of this site whereas their situations are admittedly horrendous, but off topic. Yes this whole issue seems absolutely trivial when compared to someone who's lost a loved one, has cancer or is in extreme poverty, but learning about their personal misfortunes is unlikely to help anyone have business success, whereas watching this situation unfold does give context to judge whether to work with either of these affiliate partners.

    Personally i think if you've any experience as a player - or indeed desire to protect your own customers from harm - you wouldn't recommend GVC. The playing community certainly has ascertained long before this that GVC are absolutely untrustworthy.

    Rome have far from a pristine slate, the only positive i could highlight is that in recent times they seem to have become more open to 3rd party mediation (see Gambling Grumbles).


    The POGG
    Last edited by MichaelCorfman; 17 December 2012 at 7:07 am. Reason: Removed spurious font specifications (a whole page of them) that were obscuring the content of the post.

  16. #53
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    I couldn't agree with you more. I'm sure all affiliates have at least some sort of understanding that this business is very sketchy at times. Transparency is KEY to make this a better industry.

    Most affiliates, and I believe most affiliate managers that work under the higher management as well, are people who are trying to improve this business. Optimize their websites, create better user experiences to lead to higher conversions and revenues. Practices such as these totally defeat that purpose. What good does it do to hush this all up? Settle things privately in order to continue on destroying this industry?

    Surely a lot has been posted that is questionable and it will most likely never be conclusive whether some claims are real or not... But if we just ignore all of this and accept these practices to be 'normal', eventual legislation of the iGaming industry only seems to be further and further away.

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  18. #54
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    Time to remove all brands until the dust settles. What embarassment.

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  20. #55
    casinobonusguy is offline Private Member
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    Posting their sides of story I have no issue with but then it got to point of being ridiculous , having the justice system involved is never a bad thing when somebody has been a victim of crime .I for one need more than skype screen shots to make my decision...

  21. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by casinobonusguy View Post
    Posting their sides of story I have no issue with but then it got to point of being ridiculous , having the justice system involved is never a bad thing when somebody has been a victim of crime .I for one need more than skype screen shots to make my decision...
    Absolutely agree that the screen shots prove nothing - i've seen far more intricate documents faked on computers!

    As to the justice system, in most cases these casino are regulated in what amounts to unregulated and often corrupt jurisdictions - for the wronged party (if there's only one guilty side) getting their attacker into a court room is a very unlikely scenario. On top of that we as affiliates are unlike to ever see the results if it did make it that far as it's pretty much standard practice these days to tag on a silencing clause to any settlement. We may as well see what we can see from the limited vantage we have.

    ThePOGG
    Last edited by MichaelCorfman; 17 December 2012 at 7:08 am. Reason: Removed spurious font specifications (a whole page of them) that were obscuring the content of the post.

  22. #57
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    But casinobonusguy is right that the more these 2 companies throw mud at each other in a forum the more likely affiliates are going to lose out of this the most.

  23. #58
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    Sorry but i don't see that at all. The results of continued mud slinging is simply going to be less affiliates willing to work with these brands - how does this have any affect on affiliates? The only affiliates that i can see suffering are those that promote rogue brands after fair evidence has been shown that they are rogue.

    ThePOGG

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  25. #59
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    Yes but if these casinos all go out of business then everyone has lost even more and they are already losing by getting less attention they deserve.

    Now we have to see if payments in december are affected.

  26. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by grem View Post
    Now we have to see if payments in december are affected.
    See no reason to generate rumors.

    The payments will be sent exactly in the same time as the month before.

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