Cheating at BetFred

[lots0]

Thank you for responding Louis.

I think we all understand that you can not release 'confidential' information or repeat conversations held in private.
Most of us also understand your an 'interested' 3rd party, just like Baily, I just wanted to make sure everyone understood.

I am also sure that there are affiliates that are going to continue to promote Bf.
Some people will promote anything, I still see some folks still promote the grandprivy properties. So claiming some affs still support them is from my point of view, counter productive. If I(or anyone) wants to see who is still promoting Bf we can googleit.

The thing is...Bf has NOT been transparent about this situation, in fact it seems to me(and a bunch of other people) that some of Bf's actions have actually helped to obscure.

I also think the way this was handled by Bf's representatives on forums that cater to punters, in-particular Baily's forum, was **** poor and caused more suspicion in the affiliate community than was perhaps necessary.

IMO, if Bf stands up and takes responsibility for the bad decisions that were made... this will go away.

[Caruso]

It's not possible for us to go into details about conversations that were had with individual affiliates.

Actually, you can. There is no confidentiality breach in saying "this, this and and this issues were raised. We told the concerned affiliates that Betfred had addressed those matters thus, thus and thus, and they went away happy". The facts are already out there, there should be nothing to hide. All it would amount to would be saying that so-and-so measures were taken. In fact, BetFred could only gain from these apparent revelations that made antsy affiliates happy.

As such, I do not believe this claim. I do not believe that any "dissatisfied" affiliates were subsequently "satisfied" by these apparent revelations. I believe this is more hot air. Sorry. Unless, of course, you mean "satisfied" with increased affy commissions. I'd believe that one right enough.

IMO, if Bf stands up and takes responsibility for the bad decisions that were made... this will go away.

That would frankly be tough at this point. BetFred would have to acknowledge running a cheating game for fully four years, fully aware of the issue. Amongst other things. Dunno about anyone else here, but I struggle to see that coming to pass.

But the GRA (or "GGC", depending how up to date you are) could yet come up with a squarely condemnatory finding, and penalise BetFred with tough sanctions. I also struggle to see that one coming to pass, but one might as well make a gesture towards Open Mind Syndrome, for the time being at least.

[lots0]

That would frankly be tough at this point. BetFred would have to acknowledge running a cheating game for fully four years, fully aware of the issue. Amongst other things. Dunno about anyone else here, but I struggle to see that coming to pass.

If they don't stand up and take responsibility, this will NOT go away.
This kind of stuff NEVER does.
This cheating scandal at Betfred will become common knowledge among Punters and the word will spread, that you just can't trust Betfred. No matter how much they try to 'contain' the problem with shills like Baily.

If that is what Bf wants, they will continue to obfuscate the details and not take responsibility for the decisions they made.

[-Shay-]

Yea, I'm not one to buy the whole - "Due to confidentiality, I can't get into details but I can tell you everyone is happy".

Really, if you can tell me people are happy, then you can also tell me exactly what they're happy about. Otherwise, I cannot accept the claim - nor can anyone with the ability to think critically.

[Caruso]

Spielo has form:

http://www.timesunion.com/local/arti...ff-3575245.php

Cyndie Wade-Wood had suspected electronic slot machines at Saratoga Casino and Raceway were occasionally deducting money from her cash totals between bets and not reimbursing her for some winnings. Dissatisfied with the staff's responses to her concerns, the Warren County marketing executive secretly recorded her VLT plays on a cellphone during a recent casino stop.

She said two videos she made capture sudden and unexplained drops in her electronic balance amount, including one that falls nearly $20 to $35.20 on a Wild Eyes machine that limits bets to $2. Two Wild Eyes machines and one Mermaids machine shortchanged her about $200 over several weeks, Wade-Wood said.

A casino official said Monday a software problem caused display errors in a Wild Eyes game last week, but Wade-Wood never lost any money outside of what she wagered. She acknowledged the casino issued Wade-Wood $200 in free plays.

Last week marked the first time the Lottery Division received complaints about the game, which has been developed by Spielo Manufacturers, said Christy Calicchia, a Lottery spokeswoman.

The Spielo company could not be reached for comment Monday.

I wouldn't go anywhere near a machine manufactured by this company.

[lots0]

I wonder if anyone has contacted that Timesunion Reporter. I just have a feeling he might just be interested in this thread...

[Lucky Bob]

I wonder if anyone has contacted that Timesunion Reporter. I just have a feeling he might just be interested in this thread...

It looks like the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation might or should be, interested in this tread as well:


http://calvinayre.com/2013/04/13/bus...gambling-site/

[Caruso]

I wonder if anyone has contacted that Timesunion Reporter. I just have a feeling he might just be interested in this thread...

Good idea. I'm on it.

[Caruso]

In the meantime: proof BetFred knew about this four years before it was reported at Bailey's:

http://www.hundredpercentgambling.co...icle.php?id=64

[Caruso]

I've sounded out the Times Union journalist. I also heard back from the GRA, a pleasant email with apologies for the delay and some explanation, including that they're taking the opportunity to tighten up certain areas of regulation (or the lack thereof, sorry, couldn't resist that) in order to make the matter as complete as possible.

[Louis - Income Access]

Aaron O'Sullivan, casino product manager at Betfred, has asked me to post this on his behalf:

"Hi all,

There’s been a lot of comments here regarding the operation of games produced by Realistic Games through the SPIELO G2 platform at Betfred and I would like to, where possible, explain Betfred’s position.

Once Betfred was made aware of the player’s issue, the company acted as quickly as possible in recognising the error and offering compensation payments to anyone who felt they were affected. We removed the offending game and have co-operated fully with the GRA and other authorised third parties. The subsequent investigative process has since questioned the legitimacy of the poster and the situation became more serious, possibly criminal. As such the GRA started another parallel investigation, the nature of which means Betfred, Realistic and SPEILO G2 have not been permitted to comment or disclose further information so as not to bias any decision or the proceedings.

I will stress again here that Betfred would never willingly mislead players and are committed to fair play principles. We have not forgotten this thread or the issue raised. While some people have prejudged Betfred, I ask you to allow due process to run its cause."

If anyone wants to speak to him directly, please PM or email me and I will put you in touch.

Thanks

[-Shay-]

This post as well as this one both seem contradictory to the above prepared statement in my opinion.

On one hand, no comment can be made. On the other hand, comments can be hinted at.

[Caruso]

Once Betfred was made aware of the player’s issue, the company acted as quickly as possible in recognising the error and offering compensation payments to anyone who felt they were affected.

It won't stand up in court, but I proven by any realistic standard that BetFred knew of the issue for four years before it came to light earlier this year. They were knowingly running a rigged game (sorry, fair game with an "incorrect help file", fahhhh).

As to players who "felt they were affected", all players over at least the last four years, or for as long as the fix was in place, needed to be compensated for the additional 4% of their total wagering, win or lose. Not those who "felt" anything. Feelings are irrelevant. If they played, they are owed. Why have they not all been default compensated?

I am, for what it's worth, moderately optimistic now that this will come out in the media. Noone gives much of a toss about BetFred in the big scheme, but Lottomatica is another matter.

[mattsgame]

Aaron O'Sullivan, casino product manager at Betfred, has asked me to post this on his behalf:

"Hi all,

There’s been a lot of comments here regarding the operation of games produced by Realistic Games through the SPIELO G2 platform at Betfred and I would like to, where possible, explain Betfred’s position.

Once Betfred was made aware of the player’s issue, the company acted as quickly as possible in recognising the error and offering compensation payments to anyone who felt they were affected.

Offered compensation but not payed out.

We removed the offending game and have co-operated fully with the GRA and other authorised third parties. The subsequent investigative process has since questioned the legitimacy of the poster and the situation became more serious, possibly criminal.

Why are we taking the focus away from the cheating software and talking about a poster? its irrelevant. The poster could be the mob boss for all I care, its the software I/We are concerned about.

I will stress again here that Betfred would never willingly mislead players and are committed to fair play principles. We have not forgotten this thread or the issue raised. While some people have prejudged Betfred, I ask you to allow due process to run its cause."

Maybe not, but who is responsible for it being on Betfred? and why was the game left up for so long if the first complaint back in 2008 is true?

As I final note, I liked Betfred, I promoted Betfred, but this whole saga has kinda put me off no matter what the findings are by the GRA.

[FictionNet]

Betfred will never again appear on Casino Beacon, unless I decide to add a blacklist. Other webmasters are entitled to decide which brands are approved, or accredited, but I won't put this brand in front of my visitors.

[mojo]

Aaron O'Sullivan, casino product manager at Betfred, has asked me to post this on his behalf:

...."Hi all,

The subsequent investigative process has since questioned the legitimacy of the poster and the situation became more serious, possibly criminal. As such the GRA started another parallel investigation, the nature of which means Betfred, Realistic and SPEILO G2 have not been permitted to comment or disclose further information so as not to bias any decision or the proceedings."

......

Bless you Louis. Aaron O'Sullivan, casino product manager at Betfred, you should be ashamed. I will address Louis since Aaron O'Sullivan, casino product manager at Betfred chose not to speak for himself.

Louis, please don't blame the player again, we all know better.

[mojo]

I do not want to be rude but I would like to request as a long time private member that BetFred posts for themselves in this thread. If that is not possible for legal reasons then BetFred should not be a sponsor here for the time being. Louis posting on behalf of BetFred is unacceptable.

Thank you for your consideration.

[Caruso]

Betfred did everything that was expected of them. This is an outstanding company

I would like to experience that parallel universe he lives in some time, where gambling ops can run basically cheating games, for at least four years fully in the knowledge, and remain "outstanding".

I wonder what would then constitute "slightly less than outstanding but otherwise mega" or even just plain "good"?

And yes, it is bizarre that the affiliate manager is being asked to post comments. I'm not sure what that's supposed to achieve, but I'm not sure it's working.

[Caruso]

Louis, please don't blame the player again, we all know better.

Yes, this is a smokescreen they've been using to divert the issue. It doesn't matter if he's a necrophiliac paedophile, that only makes him a nasty person. It doesn't change one iota the legitimacy of the concerns that he raised and Eliot Jocobson verified. Anything else is a separate issue. The fact that all parties - BetFred, the GRA and our chum Bailey - have tried this diversionary tactic tells us a lot. If they had nothing to hide, if this was all about "incorrect help files", they wouldn't be trying to hide. Obfuscation and diversion.

[nbrownyy]

There is little question in this case that the game, while using cards as a device, has been coded not to reproduce the true odds that would occur naturally if using a deck of cards. In other words this is a blatant case of cheating and as such i would strongly encourage every webmaster here who advertises a casino offering Realistic games to contact their AMs and tell them that this brand is no longer considered to be fair and as such jeopardises the reputation of the venue by their continued involvement with this company.