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  1. #1
    mallai is offline Public Member
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    Lightbulb Get ready to go Yeah! with our improved affiliate program!

    Dear all,

    the day has come:
    Oct,1st is the launch date of our new affiliate program: bewinners, the affiliate program of the bwin group.

    Think faster payments, a rewarding level program, high quality marketing tools, the strongest brand in the industry or in one word, simply: Yeah!

    At bewinners, you can finally put your talent to the test.
    Are you ready for the ultimate challenge?

    Become part of one of the biggest successes in the industry.

    Find out more at www.bewinners.com.

    Your bewinners team

  2. #2
    Benitho is offline Private Member
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    This is new:

    "Drei Jahre nach dem Zeitpunkt, ab dem ein Kunde zu einem Paying Active wird, wird die prozentuale Umsatzbeteiligung für einen solchen Kunden auf eine Pauschale in Höhe von fünf Prozent (5 %) reduziert, die..."

    translates to:

    3 years after a customer becomes a "paying active", the commission goes down to 5%..

    not good...

    After further study of the terms, it seems we now get crossover-revenue, guess I`ll let the 5% after 3 years slide then...
    Last edited by Benitho; 14 September 2010 at 8:30 am.

  3. #3
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    vmlinuz is offline Private Member
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    This is good news. I hope all existing players get migrated to the new affiliate system, and we don't have to start from scratch...

  4. #4
    mallai is offline Public Member
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    Hi Benito, hi vmlinuz,

    yes, apart from many further advantages bewinners comes along with, you will earn crossover-revenues, this is correct.

    And don't worry, all existing players get migrated to bewinners, you certainly do not have to start from the scretch

    If you have any further questions, feel free to post them here or to contact your respective account manager.

    BR,

    your bewinners affiliate team

  5. #5
    Benitho is offline Private Member
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    Hi mallai,

    thanks for the info on the migration of the "old customers" - should be a given, but nevertheless always comforting to have that actually confirmed.

    Commission based on the "new paying actives" from the month before is somewhat unusual, but makes sense, I guess... - The monthly mailing of xls invoices to you will also be part of history, I hope..?

    Can`t wait to log on for the first time and see what`s what...

    btw, the link to the "General Terms & Conditions" has no ".pdf" at the end, people have to add that by hand...

    B.

  6. #6
    pjotter is offline Private Member
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    No no no... Haven't you looked at page 1 in the book about how to treat affiliates as equal partners?

    Please note that this is just some of the c... I found after looking through the terms for a few seconds.

    The Revenue Share shall be calculated as a percentage of the Revenue Base generated by the Paying Actives in the previous calendar month. The percentage rate of the Revenue Share shall depend on the number of new Paying Actives acquired by the Partner in the previous calendar month. The respective percentages are listed on bwin's website. bwin reserves the right to change the percentages at any time. However, starting three years after the date a customer has become a Paying Active and ending with the termination of the Contractual Relationship, the percentage rate of the Revenue Share for this customer shall be reduced to a fixed rate of 5%.

    Paying Actives are those customers of bwin who i) have not yet had a player account with bwin and ii) have accessed the advertised bwin Website using the Link located on the Partner Website, iii) have properly registered with bwin within 30 days after their first access to the bwin Website by using the Link, iv) have made real money transfers to their player´s accounts and v) have performed at least one real-money activity within 90 days after registration.

    If no online invoice is created by the Partner within 12 months after credit of the Commission to his online wallet, the Commission shall be forfeited and will be deducted from his online wallet. This regulation also applies for Commissions older than 12 months, which have been transferred from former accounts of the Partner. Furthermore, all other demands and/or claims of the Partner against bwin shall be forfeited after 12 months after occurrence.

    The account of the Partner will be closed automatically and the Contractual Relationship is automatically terminated if during three successive months no new Paying Actives are generated by the Partner. The Partner will be informed by bwin via electronic mail after two successive months without generation of a new Paying Active that 30 days later the Partner's account will be closed and the Contractual Relationship will be terminated automatically, if during the following 30 days no New Paying Active will be generated by the Partner. The remaining money on the online wallet will not be transferred to the Partner, if he did not create an electronic invoice until the end of the month following the closing of the account.

    Oh, wait... It's a joke, right?? Ah, hahahaha funny funny. Where are the real terms? At BEGINNERS.COM??
    Last edited by pjotter; 16 September 2010 at 12:24 am.

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  8. #7
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    Yikes! If that's improved affiliate terms and an improved affiliate program then I'd hate to see the old ones!

    There are too many ways for BWin to simply confiscate monies owed.


    Thanks for reviews the terms PJotter!

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  10. #8
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    I am an affiliate of Bwin but rarely promote you, just reviews on some sites and possibly a banner on a free bets site, would need to check to be specific, but in terms of actively promoting, i don't and the reasons are varied, some of which have been touched on here.

    I am certainly not happy with the 3 year rule, just do no see how that is fair, why 3 years and not 5 years or 1 year or 10 years, what was it that made you plump for 3 years?

    If a customer is still loyal to you after 3 years then dropping someones commission down to 5% on that player is just unfair.

    Also communication with Bwin has never been great, many times i have sent emails only for them to go unanswered.

    Hopefully the communication issue will be resolved now with the new program, however the terms leave a lot to be considered.

    I wish you luck with the launch of bewinners and i sincerely hope that it proves a great success, but i would advise you take on board some of the comments from my fellow forum members on here, i am sure it will give you far more chance of success.
    Arthritis Care

    To find true bravery and courage all one need do is look in to the eyes of a sick child - A humble parent

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  12. #9
    mallai is offline Public Member
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    Hi Betpartners,

    thanks for being an affiliate of bwin.

    please tell me the mailing adress you wrote to and never received any answers from.
    Our AMs are reacting within 24 hours, the same with our service mailingadress partner@bwin.org.
    I am really interested in this.

    With bewinners, you will receive performance based crossover earnings - if you take this in consideration, including the average lifetime of a player, you will realize that it is a really great thing.

    Bewinners is a program that offers great possibilities for its users- and as I mentioned already- we are having the same targets, if you perform, we do...that's why we improved the whole program...to get the best out of us.

    BR,
    your bewinners team

  13. #10
    thepokerkeep's Avatar
    thepokerkeep is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mallai View Post
    Hi Betpartners,

    thanks for being an affiliate of bwin.

    please tell me the mailing adress you wrote to and never received any answers from.
    Our AMs are reacting within 24 hours, the same with our service mailingadress partner@bwin.org.
    I am really interested in this.

    With bewinners, you will receive performance based crossover earnings - if you take this in consideration, including the average lifetime of a player, you will realize that it is a really great thing.

    Bewinners is a program that offers great possibilities for its users- and as I mentioned already- we are having the same targets, if you perform, we do...that's why we improved the whole program...to get the best out of us.

    BR,
    your bewinners team
    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    I am an affiliate of Bwin but rarely promote you, just reviews on some sites and possibly a banner on a free bets site, would need to check to be specific, but in terms of actively promoting, i don't and the reasons are varied, some of which have been touched on here.

    I am certainly not happy with the 3 year rule, just do no see how that is fair, why 3 years and not 5 years or 1 year or 10 years, what was it that made you plump for 3 years?

    If a customer is still loyal to you after 3 years then dropping someones commission down to 5% on that player is just unfair.

    Also communication with Bwin has never been great, many times i have sent emails only for them to go unanswered.

    Hopefully the communication issue will be resolved now with the new program, however the terms leave a lot to be considered.

    I wish you luck with the launch of bewinners and i sincerely hope that it proves a great success, but i would advise you take on board some of the comments from my fellow forum members on here, i am sure it will give you far more chance of success.

    mallai,

    I notice you ignored Betpartners' comment about the 5% commission after three years. I think it's pretty obvious that this clause has got the affiliates pretty upset. Would you be so kind as to explain why Bewinners feels it necessary to impose this term on their affiliates?

    I find it difficult to understand why you think these new terms are an improvement to your program and/or a great thing for affiliates. In my opinion this looks a little predatory and benefits the company at the affiliate's expense.

    As your program's T&C's stand now, I would not do business with your brand and I'm considering posting a warning on the GAU. The present terms are certainly not affiliate friendly.
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
    President / CEO - Gambling Affiliates Union

    Casino Affiliate Programs
    Affiliate Resources
    Gambling Affiliate Program Blacklist

    Email: admin @ thepokerkeep.com



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  15. #11
    Christoff is offline Public Member
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    This 5% term is ridiculous - Bwin can't rely on their brand to get them through.

    Maybe this may work with newer affiliates but more and more affiliates are paying attention to the T&Cs nowadays thanks to great work by AffiliateGuardDog in particular.

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  17. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mallai View Post
    Hi Betpartners,

    thanks for being an affiliate of bwin.

    please tell me the mailing adress you wrote to and never received any answers from.
    Our AMs are reacting within 24 hours, the same with our service mailingadress partner@bwin.org.
    I am really interested in this.

    With bewinners, you will receive performance based crossover earnings - if you take this in consideration, including the average lifetime of a player, you will realize that it is a really great thing.

    Bewinners is a program that offers great possibilities for its users- and as I mentioned already- we are having the same targets, if you perform, we do...that's why we improved the whole program...to get the best out of us.

    BR,
    your bewinners team
    I will send the email addresses to you via PM as they contain the full names of the two people whom i have emailed, i will say publicly however that it has been some time now since i attempted to make contact as i simply gave up. and thus one of the reasons i no longer actively promote Bwin.
    Arthritis Care

    To find true bravery and courage all one need do is look in to the eyes of a sick child - A humble parent

  18. #13
    pjotter is offline Private Member
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    Thumbs down The Big One bullies the small ones...

    Quote Originally Posted by thepokerkeep View Post
    mallai,

    I notice you ignored Betpartners' comment about the 5% commission after three years. I think it's pretty obvious that this clause has got the affiliates pretty upset. Would you be so kind as to explain why Bewinners feels it necessary to impose this term on their affiliates?

    I find it difficult to understand why you think these new terms are an improvement to your program and/or a great thing for affiliates. In my opinion this looks a little predatory and benefits the company at the affiliate's expense.

    As your program's T&C's stand now, I would not do business with your brand and I'm considering posting a warning on the GAU. The present terms are certainly not affiliate friendly.
    These are extremely predatory terms and it is being applied retroactively to old affiliates too! Another huge no-go!

    I have been a BWIN/Playit affiliate since 2004 and also got the notice via email about the new affiliate program and the BS-terms followed by this:

    "The new rules are considered approved if you do not declare your disagreement in writing within 2 weeks after the changes. You can do this by sending an e-mail, where you declare you disagree with welcome@bewinners.com."

    So I sent an email and said that I would prefer that the terms did not change. Guess what? They simply replied, too bad, you cannot disagree to the new terms.

    Mallei / BWIN, why do you ask us if we agree to the new terms, if you are going to force them through anyway? I am not a big BWIN affiliate and it wont matter much if I loose the small income I generate with you. But it really frustrates me that you are treating me, a partner through 6 years, like this.

    GPWA, are these the acts of a Platinum Sponsor? Can you explain that it is not comme il faut to bully affiliates here?

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  20. #14
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    Dominique is offline Private Member
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    This is a jewel also:

    The account of the Partner will be closed automatically and the Contractual Relationship is automatically terminated if during three successive months no new Paying Actives are generated by the Partner
    Quotas like that suck, smaller affiliates are totally powerless here, and even big ones have issues like illness or google trouble or what have you.

    I will not ever touch a program with such terms. If you should meet with misfortune, they'll take away the income you earned with honest work.

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  22. #15
    GCG
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    Seems to me I see more and more crappy programs each day !

    The worst thing is that they can buy integrity here...............I feel we get fooled by both sides.......

    This is not funny.

    Affiliates sign up promote a while doing ok for some time and conversions are not what they used to be and see their account closed for not delivering the quota.

    Each progam that does this should have a marked warning for "quota conditions apply"
    Live dealer games at golden tiger casino

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  24. #16
    mallai is offline Public Member
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    Dear Terry,

    this is a management decision I cannot elaborate on.

    But we strongly believe that consedering the average player lifetime on a site and the crossover earnings affiliates will still gain revenues.

    Best regards,

    Your bewinners team

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    Christoff is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mallai View Post
    Dear Terry,

    this is a management decision I cannot elaborate on.

    But we strongly believe that consedering the average player lifetime on a site and the crossover earnings affiliates will still gain revenues.

    Best regards,

    Your bewinners team
    This is, in my opinion, a bad response - as an affiliate manager, you need to justify why certain terms are needed/not needed.

    As you can see, many affiliates are not happy with the approach and this will lead to an eventual overhaul of the T&Cs some time down the line.

    BWin may as well accept they cannot do as they like and be competitive and friendly towards ALL affiliates.

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  27. #18
    mallai is offline Public Member
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    Dear Pjotter,

    would you be so kind and send me the answer to your email via PM?

    I would like to look into this.

    Best regards,

    Your bewinners team

  28. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mallai View Post
    Dear Terry,

    this is a management decision I cannot elaborate on.

    But we strongly believe that consedering the average player lifetime on a site and the crossover earnings affiliates will still gain revenues.

    Best regards,

    Your bewinners team
    Thanks mallai,

    You may want to suggest to your management that judging by the reaction here, they would be wise to reconsider the terms changes. There is a storm on the horizon and BWin is going to find themselves in the middle of it.
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
    President / CEO - Gambling Affiliates Union

    Casino Affiliate Programs
    Affiliate Resources
    Gambling Affiliate Program Blacklist

    Email: admin @ thepokerkeep.com



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  30. #20
    pjotter is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mallai View Post
    Dear Pjotter,

    would you be so kind and send me the answer to your email via PM?

    I would like to look into this.

    Best regards,

    Your bewinners team
    Here's my answer:

    Dear Sirs,
    >>>
    >>> Thanks for your email. The new affiliate program looks exciting.
    >>>
    >>> I would like to continue on existing terms that we have already agreed
    >>> on,
    >>> instead of changing to the new terms.
    >>>
    >>> Please confirm.
    >>>
    >>> Kind regards,
    >>>

    The rest of the correspondance is in Danish, because my AM answered me in Danish. I have now been informed that I can complain to your legal department in English writing, and they will tell me why they think you can just change our mutual agreement without my consent. Do you need a letter or will an email be satisfactory?

    Have a nice weekend.
    Last edited by pjotter; 21 September 2010 at 12:58 am. Reason: edited for name confidentiality

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