GP & eCOGRA...BS

[pjotter]

According to the investigation, GP apparently owes me $196. The month GP closed, I got a payout of approx. $2600. The result of the investigation is of course not impossible, but I find it highly unbelievable that it is correct. For the record, I guess that most of my income would be from players refered back in the referspot days. I can't believe that I actually believed that something would come out of this 'stunt'. Just more wasted time and less trust in Microgaming

[Dominique]

No reason to give up yet - eCOGRA is now looking into the Referspot situation.

[GamTrak]

No reason to give up yet - eCOGRA is now looking into the Referspot situation.

That is good to know Dom, but I'm 99% confident that the data was not correct for the GP portion as well as the referspot side. Although my player base extend back to referspot, my Grand Prive account was making decent income and the amount they gave (under 1k) for just GP alone for a 12 month period still does not jive with me. We are business folks that record our stats monthly not dummies.

Either way I have no more confidence in the process and want to be offered a settlement that BOTH parties agree with and I'm not waiting another 3 months for another 'audit'.

[Anthony]

So is this looks like a botched audit by eCogra.

They did not do their due diligence in this case.

Perhaps now, they will investigate the matter thoroughly.

Thanks Dom, for telling them how to do their job!

[Caruso]

Just for the record, I don't think Ecogra set out on a conspiricy, or in cahoots with Microgaming and Grand Prive. ........JMO.

I DO THINK that they jumped into this to protect the MGS Brand, not necessarily to protect Grand Prive itself. It's hard to know for sure, though.

Whether Microgaming, Grand Privè or both, it wasn't the affiliates.

If nothing else, you have now, to a man, had the fun of what scores of players have been experiencing since day one, that of being turned over by the online gambling industry.

And on that subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5mBP6wqSPo

[Dominique]

My suspicion is that the legacy players from Referspot were still accounted for in the old referspot stats and then piped in, and that this was omitted when eCOGRA was presented with stats.


But this is pure speculation.

[arkyt]

My suspicion is that the legacy players from Referspot were still accounted for in the old referspot stats and then piped in, and that this was omitted when eCOGRA was presented with stats.

What do affiliates do IF they come forward and say all data was destroyed "after" the recently completed investigation?

If nothing else, you have now, to a man, had the fun of what scores of players have been experiencing since day one, that of being turned over by the online gambling industry.

And on that subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5mBP6wqSPo

IF, this does prove to be a botched investigation, it will be extremely difficult to not take that comment into consideration and at least to some extent question every single investigation that has been completed by this firm.

To the video, I wonder how much she truly knew about the issues she was being questioned about.

[universal4]

Why now, all of a sudden does anyone need to provide banking details again?

And if banking details need to now be provided in order to get paid by Grand Prive, why then was it necessary for eCogra to have the banking details?

I asked this before and was never provided an answer.

I felt it was wrong for ANY third party to be asking for bank details, and it was the main reason I did not even file a claim!!

If in fact eCogra never had any intention to be involved in any portion of the payment solution, why then should they have bothered asking for banking details, and add additional risk to affiliates having their banking details in yet another database....all for NO REASON????!!

I personally think the entire audit needs to be performed from the beginning....and the audit itself should include any and all players signed up under both the Referspot and Grand Prive tags.....and this whole thing can be done WITHOUT affiliates filing claims...

It's called looking at stats....

Anything less shows a lack of credibility.

Rick
Universal4

[Webzcas]

I've blogged about this here.

If anyone comments, be sure to leave a backlink to your grand prive page. I will approve all related comments.

[MichaelCorfman]

I want to report that I received a follow-up e-mail from Andrew Beveridge, the Executive Director of eCOGRA, a few minutes ago.

In the e-mail Andrew stated that "I'm extremely concerned about what has been reported and I intend finding out exactly what the situation is and addressing it approprately." Andrew is on the road at the moment so his time is limited right now. However, he does go on to say "this will be getting our full attention."

I do know Andrew well enough to know that he will be very serious about getting to the bottom of the situation.

Michael

[joeyl]

Then i'll have Andrew as the new Micro ceo then.

I'll have Jetset & Caruso as my player reps. These 2 get a veto over the FGA, but both must agree in favour of the player to get paid, so they veto each other too.

I'll have Affguard and Swampwitch as my aff reps to Ecogra. Same deal.

All 4 have the veto on whether a casino, kit & kaboodle, is acredited or not, ongoing.

Not that they'd want the job.

It's a lark this process is, really. Have a look.

[Caruso]

On the proposed partnership, I would regretfully have to pass.

Done a write up:

http://www.hundredpercentgambling.co...rand-prive.htm

[Daera]

I have records of payment due that go back for several years as I've paid my mom to keep this information stored/saved for me. I know EXACTLY how much they paid me prior to closing each and every month.

I made more than that settlement amount for years just about EVERY month that I promoted them. I was one of the affiliates that promoted them up to the day they sent the letter informing us of the closure. Looks like October 2008 was the last player that I submitted to them via an exclusive promotion I had with them here.

I just today sent Sean the past 48 months of my earnings in detail. Out of 48 months, all the way to the very last month before they closed the program, I had earned a payment all but two months. So 46 out of 48 months I made money with them..... then..... NOTHING. Not a single dollar? I don't buy it.

I had over 300 depositing players before they moved to the new software program. The company we worked for was always the same. Our payments came from the same people, paid to the same accounts of ours. So why should it matter if the players were acquired in 2005 or in 2008? Why wouldn't the players we acquired with their old software be included? It isn't like the company got sold to someone else and it was an entirely new company. The only thing new was the software.

I think the biggest stuff up came when they went to the single login. That was not a good move on their part. I can tell you as a player I didn't like it, and as an affiliate I didn't (and still don't) trust it. I think it was the "single login" that was BETA. As affiliates, we all had concerns with how that would work, if a player had signed up under one affiliate at one casino, and another affiliate from another casino, and maybe untagged from yet another casino, who would earn from their play? But the group did this single login as a BETA TEST with Microgaming, it turned out not to be such a good thing, but they had invested so much money to get the "single login" that they had to live with it. Personally, I think this definitely affected us, and hurt us. This was BETA. And this is why I think it wasn't as simple as just going back to the old affiliate software they named "Referspot".

I sent Sean my detailed earning amounts from the last 48 months today. I actually started promoting them sooner then that, but that's all the information I have with me now. He said he'll look into it further and agreed that the payment pattern I showed him enforces my concern.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens now.

[Former Member 14]

Pursuant to an independent and fair resolution of the issues involved, eCOGRA was tasked with:

1. Independently investigating the manner in which the Program was terminated and the reasons therefore;
2. Carrying out a full and independent review of the program software and data to confirm amounts owed to claimants;

eCogra is as much an independent entity to Grand Prive Group as Microgaming is to eCogra.

This entire fiasco was floored from the start.

Instead of regurgitating my views you can read these here:
https://www.gpwa.org/forum/how-many-...tml#post584000

I'm sorry to hear that things did not turn out well for affiliates. Being shafted by Grand Prive was bad enough but to get a double whammy by eCogra totally sux!



Cheers



Dave

[Daera]

Hi all,
Very interesting reading and many that I concur with but just to say from my own personal experience.

- We never had problems with the old 'Referspot' program, yet we had LOADS with Grand Prive Affiliates (and I remember constantly asking them via CAP about going back to the old one - it really can't have been that hard). I was earning good monthly amounts then (ranging about 1k to 4k a month) which significantly dropped after they migrated all that to Grand Prive Affiliates (I don't remember them advising it was a Beta testing site!!!??)
==> Surely if it was a Beta testing site not working, they had one that WAS working fine - it would I'm sure have been VERY simple to go back (any IT 'professional' has a back-out plan if the proposed new system doesn't work!).

I'm not sure what they meant exactly about the "Beta Testing" part, but one part that was definitely BETA TESTING was the "Single Login" that the Grand Prive Casinos switched to.

It's my understanding it was the single login move within the Grand Prive casinos that was Beta, and proved not to be a good move on their part. But because of all the money they had invested to try the "single login" at the casinos they had to stick with it.

[bonustreak]

Just posted this at Meister and thought I would here as well for anyone that is getting money back you best double check those figures because it seems someone does not know how to use decimals!

HAHA so I am back to retract my previous statement about how we were given a decent amount it seems the accountant or whom ever typed the email up does not know how to use decimals and it was not 7k we are given but 7 bucks roflmaooooo they can of course shove that!

[Former Member 14]

I do know Andrew well enough to know that he will be very serious about getting to the bottom of the situation.

It shouldn't take another cut of the pie to get to the bottom (facts) of this entire Grand Prive audit. It should have been done properly in the 1'st place.

It doesn't take a road scholar to realise that if Grand Prive supplied dodgy records to eCogra this investigation would be flawed.

What surprises me is that eCogra has not taken advantage of its direct connection with MGS. Given that they would hold monitory records of all deposits and such gone thru Grand Prive Casinos.

NB - MGS gets a percentage of all deposits in each MGS powered casino. The back-end management suite as too is the deposit gateway (I believe) hooked up into MGS.

Although not a simple task of cross referencing but a task that would ensure that the records supplied to eCogra by Grand Prive were 100% legit.



Cheers



Dave

[GamTrak]

Just posted this at Meister and thought I would here as well for anyone that is getting money back you best double check those figures because it seems someone does not know how to use decimals!

That is what I emailed my rep back about in my initial response yesterday.

Hi xxxx,

Can you please verify this amount. $xxx,00.

Either the comma is in the wrong spot or your saying you owe me less than 1k?

Thanks
Robin

This entire situation is a joke!

[joeyl]

Ecogra run the tgtr (total gaming transaction review).

Every bet your referrals ever made.

When they get the referspot details. They'll know how many "lost" players there were between referspot and the grand prive changover too.

[arkyt]

I just today sent Sean the past 48 months of my earnings in detail. Out of 48 months, all the way to the very last month before they closed the program, I had earned a payment all but two months. So 46 out of 48 months I made money with them..... then..... NOTHING. Not a single dollar? I don't buy it.

I wonder exactly how they determined "potential future earnings" - the above case should have yielded a very nice settlement. Then again I have no idea what the average lifetime of a GP player was - hell for all I know it was 2 hours.