GP & eCOGRA...BS

[Former Member 14]

At the moment, I have received a grand total of:

0

PMs.

I have some data from two other affiliates which I approached separately. But at the moment it is looking very much like the other affiliates simply don't care - in which case I will not waste any further time.

Reiterating it's the same old same old blah...blah...blah....

What you offered to do Spear was a generous gesture.

Seriously it's the same MO with every issue. All talk no action (oh part from throw up black listing pages)


Cheers



Dave

[pgaming]

At the moment, I have received a grand total of:

0

PMs.

Again I am surprised as I was with so few claims for the Ecogra investigation. Affiliates are still screaming seems pretty much as far it goes. Coffee house talk with no action maybe a sign of what’s the point. Well IMO there is a point places like Grand Prive, Virtual Group, Treasure Chest whose main strategy for survival is theft and fraud need a clear message, the game is over.

I bet the rogues always count on us to give up so easily. I really believe collectively we have the ability to make positive change happen. Bury our grudges towards one another and tackle these issues head on.

For myself I find it very frustrating and yes I am beyond anger. I personally am not seeking fame, fortune or recognition. I am seeking what most people want justice fair and equal treatment. My head does not allow me witness such a heinous crimes and do nothing. This is no board game because this BS affects real people’s lives.

I don’t care if you’re owed a $1.00 or $1000000 deceit people’s lives were affected by vandals. While you accept the slap on the face Grand Prive walks away into the sunset holding hands with Microgaming and Ecogra on crack giving the nobler persons of world the middle finger. This BS must stop!

Why Grand Prive, Microgaming, and Ecogra feel it is okay to feed off of your blood, sweat and tears is beyond me, likely because they can.

greek39

[Spearmaster]

I don't believe it is a case that no one cares. I see it as the affiliates are tired of constantly having to prove what they are owed with no way to view the stats.

There is a difference. I didn't ask anyone to prove what they are owed - I asked them to show what they were earning, and what they were offered. There has to be a way to clearly establish that there was a flaw with the auditing process, otherwise no one wants to budge.

But whatever. As I said somewhere before, this is a community effort, not a one-man effort. I don't have any claim at all against GP but I would like to see this resolved - and I am willing to do what I can but I'm not going to kill myself doing so if no one else wants to do their bit.

[pgaming]

I am with ya Spear and anyone else who take this as serious as we do.

Anyone with the location of the referspot DB please PM before I find it on my own.

greek39

[Caruso]

I bet the rogues always count on us to give up so easily. I really believe collectively we have the ability to make positive change happen.

Question is: are they right?

Answer is: almost certainly.

You are in, collectively, an "impossible" situation. On the one hand, you want to publically be seen to be putting pressure on in all the right places, Microgaming and eCOGRA, rightfully where it should be. On the other hand, a lot of people here make a lot of money with Microgaming. Those people are not going to want to either rock the boat or do anything that jeopardises their income stream - an understandable human fraility.

They are therefore utterly hamstrung. They can (OK: will) do nothing, and Microgaming / eCOGRA know this.

Of course, you could, as a body, call Microgaming's bluff and pull all Microgaming links from your sites until Microgaming does something. That would set a precedent for action and you wouldn't be so roundly ****** with again. And the rest of the industry would have "don't **** with the GPWA" tattoed on its forehead from henceforth.

But will this ever happen? Like hell. Microgaming, assuming they've even considered the possibility, knows this as well.

So yes, you have the ability. But its reality is an absolute pipe dream.

[joeyl]

There is a difference. I didn't ask anyone to prove what they are owed - I asked them to show what they were earning, and what they were offered.

There has to be a way to clearly establish that there was a flaw with the auditing process, otherwise no one wants to budge.

But whatever.

Not whatever. That alludes to a storm in a teacup. Since when do you give up so easy?

It's a good idea. Get Ecogra to do it. They have the list of claimants.

Furthermore: Ecogra can tell us via the GP aff database how many never filed a claim, (no legacy players though apparently). They can ask them why not file the claim.

I bet they can verify aff earnings on specific player accounts via the tgtr. If it takes 6000 borrowed kpmg staff as the workforce a year, tough, then charge Grand Prive the bill. This claimant thing is a nonsense, and affs should'nt have agreed. Big industry players advised them to claim by the way Ted.

Anyway, of course things can be done, but thier hands are tied, including the independents. So that's the end of the whole Ecogra independency gamut, if the independents are hamstrung. Andrew is cool is not enough.

Everyone who needs to know knows already anyhow.

Who are you going to rope in to help you Spear, once you get this info you request? If I may ask.

[universal4]

What about those who did not file a claim because their questions were NOT answered before the claim deadline?

What about those who had trouble filing a claim because they could NOT see the stats needed to file a claim?

How about eCogra and MGS do an audit about what is owed to EVERYONE?

What about the affiliates that only made a few bucks here and there throughout the years....

If the money was made it should have been paid...period....whether the affiliate filed a claim or not....

Rick
Universal4

[GamTrak]

At the moment, I have received a grand total of:

0

PMs.

I have some data from two other affiliates which I approached separately. But at the moment it is looking very much like the other affiliates simply don't care - in which case I will not waste any further time.

Well being that my quick tender account was closed after I accessed it from a conference in London, I've had to ask them to send me a payout report for 2008.

It's NOT that I won't co-operate I just need more time! I have NO PROBLEM showing my information to you or anyone for that matter, I just want to get paid what I'm due.

[Anthony]

There is a difference. I didn't ask anyone to prove what they are owed - I asked them to show what they were earning, and what they were offered. There has to be a way to clearly establish that there was a flaw with the auditing process, otherwise no one wants to budge.

But whatever. As I said somewhere before, this is a community effort, not a one-man effort. I don't have any claim at all against GP but I would like to see this resolved - and I am willing to do what I can but I'm not going to kill myself doing so if no one else wants to do their bit.

I did not mean to discourage your efforts. I think the more information gathered the better. I was only expressing my thoughts on why you did not get an overwhelming response.

[Amateur]

My problem with this whole thing is that it smells so much like "blaming the victim". "She shouldn't have worn those clothes..", or "He should have known not to drive thru there". That sort of thing.

Should aff have known better than to adv for Referspot, not to trust them?

In the beginning I had great results with them, then my stats dropped off to nothing. How do I know what agenda Referspot had even at that time, before they became Grand Prive? So far as I know, they could have been ripping off affiliates long before anyone even suspected duplicity on their part.

Some people defend Microgaming with every breath they take, but I'm more of the opinion that corp are much more inclined to screw you at any opportunity, esp in today's environment of lack of ethics and integrity in the "highest" places. It's more likely that major officials of a corp are under huge pressure to sweep things under the rug. That's how things are done these days, and have been for a long time. Most of us just haven't wanted to acknowledge it until it hits us where it hurts most.

I made my claim and they said GP didn't owe me a dime. I can't prove that they do, so that's it for me. I move on.

[pgaming]

I have a few unused domains still in site development. I plan on using them for exactly these types of situations. I can’t speak for everyone but for me I have bad tendency of never giving up until things are made right.

I understand what you are saying Caruso and think you feel as passionate about this issue as I do. But what Microgaming has to realize Grand Prive is their thorn that needs to be pulled. Because Grand Prive decided to act like some train robbers does not mean the whole society is guilty. But rather I think Microgaming has a responsibility kicking the buggers of their software. A few bad apples should not pollute the rest of good programs. I would lump VA in there as well another bunch of train robbers.

Is this too much to ask for considering the life affiliates breathed into Microgaming since day one. For Microgaming to do nothing is the ultimate act of betrayal. If this does not get resolved I will remove all Microgaming links.

The same for Ecogra they have responsibilities as well. How can they knowingly endorse Grand Prive under these circumstances while yanking certifications for affiliates, programs such as, BS for lesser reasons why not Grand Prive.

People before profits Microgaming and Ecogra grow some integrity and do something.

greek39

[Spearmaster]

Well being that my quick tender account was closed after I accessed it from a conference in London, I've had to ask them to send me a payout report for 2008.

It's NOT that I won't co-operate I just need more time! I have NO PROBLEM showing my information to you or anyone for that matter, I just want to get paid what I'm due.

Ok, I'll wait for yours

Joey - I will take it up with MGS myself. No guarantee that any action will be taken but we'll see.

Universal - I agree with you, all affs should be paid, but we can't even get those who submitted a claim paid properly... gotta start somewhere.

Don't forget, GP commissioned this audit from eCOGRA. MGS has nothing to do with the audit at all. All I want from MGS is an explanation on how the integration between GP and Referspot was done. To do so we have to show reasonable cause that the Referspot data was not likely included in the audit.

Assuming we can do that, then we give MGS cause to consider ordering a full audit themselves, or for eCOGRA to consider what should be done next. It's not enough for us just to claim that something was wrong - we need to show reasonable cause.

Now you and I and just about everyone else here knows that something was wrong - but we need to gather all this ammo in one place.

[joeyl]

Joey - I will take it up with MGS myself. No guarantee that any action will be taken but we'll see.

But GP say Micro blew the referspot data, thereby rendering the affiliate system unprofitable long term, so they had to shut it down.

Bryan suspects not many affs are affected after allegedly GP settled with "most" aff partners affected.

& you want some nymbers to show to Micro, but Bryan said he's been in contact with the Micro CEO.

As I said, they who need to know knew yesterday last year.

If Ecogra still hold the GP database and employed you tomorrow, what would you attempt to do with it please?

[pgaming]

But GP say Micro blew the referspot data

I suspect otherwise its' around somewhere with a few coding errors. A name is attached to it as well. Keep in mind this is not verified yet so it is mere suspicion.

If I have the right person he visited Bulgaria Gaming expo on 25th-26th Jan 2010.

greek39

[Spearmaster]

But GP say Micro blew the referspot data, thereby rendering the affiliate system unprofitable long term, so they had to shut it down.

Where did you see this?

Bryan suspects not many affs are affected after allegedly GP settled with "most" aff partners affected.

I am aware of this.

& you want some nymbers to show to Micro, but Bryan said he's been in contact with the Micro CEO.

Afraid you'll have to draw your own conclusions here.

If Ecogra still hold the GP database and employed you tomorrow, what would you attempt to do with it please?

Irrelevant, because eCOGRA wouldn't hire me, and I wouldn't work for eCOGRA.

Other than that I'm really in no position to comment but again you are welcome to draw your own conclusions.

[GamTrak]

Ok, I'll wait for yours

Thank you, but it looks like I'm going to have to fight to get access to my quick tender data as they have been 'Stuck on Stupid' for awhile. Here is the latest:

To ensure that your QuickTender emails get to your inbox, please add support@QuickTender.com , security@QuickTender.com and identity@QuickTender.com to your email Address Book or Safe List

Dear Robin xxxxxx,

The transaction activity does not coincide with what we have on file.

Out of few reasons one is that you did not have access and any money coming in and out once the account has been locked: on 08/02/2008.

Please provide an explanation about the source of the provided record in order to assist your further.

Thank you for your patience and co-operation.

Best regards,

QuickTender Security

security@QuickTender.com

Working hours (Mon-Fri):

GMT: 7 AM - 5 PM
PST: 11 PM - 9 AM
EST: 2 AM - 12 PM

How do I know this is not a Spoof email? Spoof or 'phishing' emails
tend to have generic greetings such as "Dear QuickTender member".
Emails from QuickTender will always address you by your first and last
name.

Ticket Details
Ticket ID: <snip>
Department: QuickTender Security
Priority: Medium
Status: Resolved

I'm going to spend the time necessary to get into my old account, but after reading this email it don't look like anyone has a brain there so we will see how it goes.

After I looked over my payment records (to provide to you) that I had saved in an Excel file from that QT account I sent them transactions and now they want to know how I got it?

I'll keep you posted!

[joeyl]

Where did you see this?

In the Ecogra press release. "Ongoing problems in beta"..

Irrelevant, because eCOGRA wouldn't hire me, and I wouldn't work for eCOGRA.

Other than that I'm really in no position to comment but again you are welcome to draw your own conclusions.

With the Grand Prive database at your disposal, could you work out how many affiliates never claimed?

[Betpartners]

I understand your frustrations Spearmaster about the lack of response from affiliates that have been effected but that does not come close to the frustration that affiliates feel over this whole saga.

The only reason that affiliates are being asked for info by Ecogra (not you) is either because Grand Prive refuse to give the info they already have in their database or they have lost it, either way right from the get go the process was flawed the minute the onus was put on to affiliates to provide info.

Affilaites should never have been asked for that info in the first place, it was not affiliates that did anything wrong here, it was grand prive, it is on them and them alone to come up with all the data, they have it, they can access it, otherwise why would the info from affiliates be required if their was no means of verifying if it was accurate or not.

If Grand Prive dont have that database then i had 12000 active players and an average of £125000 monthly income

If they do have that info then they will know i was never an affiliate with them.

Either way the info was never required and was nothing more than a smokescreen.

None of us are dumb, we all are fully aware of what can easily be done here and all the tricks being employed to minimise payment by Grand Prive is simply not going to wash.

At least we have another 26 pages of constructive debate, info, pressure etc that is now in the public domain and available on google offering further opportunity for players and affiliates alike to see for themselves the contribution or lack of from Ecogra and Microgaming.

All those that have put in a constructive effort here on these 26 pages should pat themselves on the back because even if nothing comes of this it does show that this issue has not died despite some wishing it would

Well done people and well done Spearmaster for your efforts.

[Spearmaster]

In the Ecogra press release. "Ongoing problems in beta"..

I think the ongoing problems were with the GP affiliate software, nothing to do with the Referspot database. But that's speculation, as neither GP nor Microgaming actually elaborated on what exactly those problems were.

With the Grand Prive database at your disposal, could you work out how many affiliates never claimed?

I guess that depends on exactly what is in the database. Undoubtedly that number would be hundreds, if not thousands, simply because of the narrow avenue in which they chose to publicize this audit.

Betpartners - my instinct says that they chose this method because they knew it would keep claims to a minimum - kind of like when some class action suit is announced against some tobacco manufacturer - they ask people who have smoked between Feb. 28th, 1995, and June 30th, 2007, to opt-in for a settlement... it should be obvious that less than 1% of those actually affected ever make a claim because most people never hear of the class action suit in the first place.

Whether it was fair or not remains to be seen - in my eyes I don't think it was fair.

[joeyl]

Ok, we're on the same page.

When Ecogra run an audit pulling out 68 accounts from thousands, they know they're onto a loser.

This is worse than I thought at first.