Haters

[mojo]

Good points.

I just figured out that I just don't like the word 'haters'. I think the word haters puts everyone in a derogatory box that some may not deserve. I understand complainers, bitching, whining, crying, fighting, a%holes.

Hater is not in my vocabulary. Too strong a word for my delicate sensibilities.

Reiterating.

TheGamblingGuru- One last question here...Which would have been more productive for an affiliate manager and company representative, to take the time to start this thread here and make comments about "haters" or try and deal with these rogue affiliates? I rest my case..

Kind of hard to argue with that.

[AE-Martyn]

[quote=TheGamblingGuru;545435]

As an affiliate of ClubWorld myself I don't send out SPAM and I don't want to receive any SPAM from one of their other affiliates either. It makes us all look bad as affiliates and it makes ClubWorld look even worse when they don't even bother to make a reply to a thread on one of the most prominent casino forum boards on the net regarding the issue.

So the next question is "Why no response"? Does that mean that ClubWorld is ok with their affiliates sending out SPAM and they condone this type of marketing behavior? Or, they know that some of their affiliates do in fact sent out hundreds of thousands of these SPAM emails and they just would rather not acknowledge that fact or respond to it? This particular affiliate even used "Villento" as a scape goat in that SPAM email.

ClubWorld is surely better than this, and it has actually surprised me that neither Martyn or Tom has bothered with a reply to that thread in the past six days that it has been posted there. How does that look to all the players that hold ClubWorld in such high regard, including myself? Does anyone here actually believe that this type of marketing behavior will be tolerated by any of the big guns like Harrah's when they go online?

Good post Guru, I hope I can answer you sufficiently here. Since we launched Lucky Red we attracted a lot of attention and at the same time affiliates that deal in mass mailing. It came to our attention pretty quickly that our mailers we being used for spammy purposes thanks to mails to myself and our support regarding this. After contacting the affiliates involved accounts were suspended and others are being looked at in depth.

Being a player forum, Tom usually deals with all the posts on Casinomeister but he is currently off work on anual leave. I will check it out however, but don't take no response as a case of not caring or us not doing anything about it. I am aware of such issues and have been dealing with them as I become aware of such issues.

[quote=TheGamblingGuru;545435]

That thread and post there was never meant to be "hating" on ClubWorld. Like I said previously, I promote ClubWorld every chance I get and I have also been one of their players since way back in 06. I was hoping that the post would garner some serious attention to the fact that many of ClubWorlds Affiliates continuously are caught engaging in SPAM emails and a serious intervention is needed by Martyn or his supervisor regarding this.

One last question here...Which would have been more productive for an affiliate manager and company representative, to take the time to start this thread here and make comments about "haters" or try and deal with these rogue affiliates? I rest my case..

Martyn, I hope you have thick skin brother as this post is not meant toward you in an offensive manner but one of insight and I hope you look upon it in that light as well.

On your last question, both are being dealt with and I organise my time pretty well which allows me to spend time on the forums. As an active member on boards like GPWA and CAP I think it is of benefit that affiliate managers use the boards, not just to deal with issues when they arise but also to raise points to discuss and for promotional activities going on at our company.

If you prefer that my time could be better spent out of the forums then posts would never get answered. It's a fine balance but personally I would rather be involved in the forums and deal with issues and promote Club World, Lucky Red and Aladdins Gold all available at www.cwcaffiliates.com (Sorry, I had to get in some kind of marketing in here)

Thanks for this post, its always good to hear feedback but my skin isnt that thick - but it's nothing my therapist cant iron out.

I will be on CM shortly.

[Renee]

Well the first post and thread starter was me by the way just in case you didn't know. I did say "please" though in my short and single paragraph there. Don't really know what language you are referring to in that short paragraph, if that is the one you meant as "language used". I do hope that my frustration level and overall feel for this type of nonsense was made clear though.

To be honest I didn't even look at the person who posted. All I saw was in HUGE letters or bold or something (haven't looked at it since) the words 'Martyn can you control your idiot affiliates' or something like that and I just skimmed the rest. I just assumed that the timing of this thread and that one was more than a coincedence. I didn't think I was right - I was kinda just making a joke actually, poking fun at Martyn (because someone has to -- light hearted banter was what it was referred to earlier?).
Even if you didn't mean it that way, the comment about controlling his stupid affiliates gave me the impression that you're kinda attacking Martyn there.

I am on your side here. I *#*$&#% HATE spam.

I have an email address that I have NEVER entered into an online casino. I only ever use that email for online banking, facebook etc and stuff like that. I still get casino spam to that email. It takes more of my time to complain about it than to delete it and set my spam filters a little better next time..

I'm not saying that you don't have a right to post about it, but for me personally, if someone emails me and let's me know that they received spam, I will have that spam as proof (ie headers and affiliate links etc) and i can take care of it immediately (which I do) whereas if it's posted on a forum, I can't really do anything. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who will do anything they can to bring down their competitors so I can't just take someone's word for it that they got spam because I may be falsely accusing someone.

The other thing is, how do we know someone is spamming until we get a complaint? There are many affiliates who send emails to legitimate double opt-in lists (and some of those people STILL complain of spam BTW even though they opted in to the list twice). So we need to make sure we are not punishing someone who is sending to a legit opt-in list too.

I personally have no problem shutting down a spammer and I don't think there is any problem complaining about spam. I personally would not have gone about it in the same way as you did but that's just me. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Just my opinion and you are also entitled to yours.
My comment was about that thread and that's the explanation.

I have found the best way to deal with continuous SPAM from the same affiliate group over the past six months is to start posting about it on public forum boards until the situation is corrected. What's more interesting than that is seeing how far some players and affiliates can be pushed to the breaking point of frustration with all of this SPAM that has been coming from the CWG of affiliates the past six or so months. Whether I am speaking as an affiliate or player, SPAM is SPAM no matter. It's not rocket science for Martyn or any other affiliate manager to find out who the affiliate is and suspend their account when they hear of these instances and are presented with the evidence. CM has many many posts published there over the past six months regarding ClubWorld SPAM.

As an affiliate of ClubWorld myself I don't send out SPAM and I don't want to receive any SPAM from one of their other affiliates either. It makes us all look bad as affiliates and it makes ClubWorld look even worse when they don't even bother to make a reply to a thread on one of the most prominent casino forum boards on the net regarding the issue.

Again, since I'm assuming these are all different affiliates, how would Martyn have known they were spamming until he got a complaint? I'm pretty sure the first thing Martyn did after investigating the spam was to shut down the affiliate too (I think he posted that here somewhere)...

Also on the point of posting - I have an agreement with Bryan Bailey that I do not post at CMs, but any conflicts are PMd to me so I can sort them that way. If I spent any more time on the boards I would never get any work done. I skim them every couple of days to see if there are any issues that I haven't been told about, and in most cases I will actually PM the person who has made the complaint to see if I can resolve the issue, but I wont post there. Does that make it look like I don't care? I hope not. Just because people don't see that I'm taking care of it, doesn't mean I'm not.

So the next question is "Why no response"? Does that mean that ClubWorld is ok with their affiliates sending out SPAM and they condone this type of marketing behavior? Or, they know that some of their affiliates do in fact sent out hundreds of thousands of these SPAM emails and they just would rather not acknowledge that fact or respond to it? This particular affiliate even used "Villento" as a scape goat in that SPAM email.

I think it's unfair to crucify Martyn for his affiliate's use of another group's email address as their scape goat.

There are lots of spammers out there who use fake emails.. Some spammers for viagra and other things sometimes use my email address and I find when they do this I come into work with a tonne of not deliverable reports for emails I havent even sent. If the email was reported for spam, the headers are the important part, not the From address.

ClubWorld is surely better than this, and it has actually surprised me that neither Martyn or Tom has bothered with a reply to that thread in the past six days that it has been posted there. How does that look to all the players that hold ClubWorld in such high regard, including myself? Does anyone here actually believe that this type of marketing behavior will be tolerated by any of the big guns like Harrah's when they go online?

That thread and post there was never meant to be "hating" on ClubWorld. Like I said previously, I promote ClubWorld every chance I get and I have also been one of their players since way back in 06. I was hoping that the post would garner some serious attention to the fact that many of ClubWorlds Affiliates continuously are caught engaging in SPAM emails and a serious intervention is needed by Martyn or his supervisor regarding this.

The response times etc of those guys are not something I'm able to comment on because I don't work for CWC.

I personally don't think YOU are a hater BTW. I have read most of your comments over there and about 99% of them have some decent points.

One last question here...Which would have been more productive for an affiliate manager and company representative, to take the time to start this thread here and make comments about "haters" or try and deal with these rogue affiliates? I rest my case..

Martyn, I hope you have thick skin brother as this post is not meant toward you in an offensive manner but one of insight and I hope you look upon it in that light as well.

I have a feeling that before Martyn started the thread he had already taken care of them.

I think feedback like this is welcomed too BTW. I appreciate that you responded in a cool calm and collected manner and didn't feel the need to swear or make nasty comments like a lot of other people do. Kudos to ya

[Renee]

Reiterating.

When I think of the word hater(s) I don't think of it the same.

For example, my other half will say he likes house music, to which I reply with "Booooo!"

He then says to me "Don't be a hater!"

It's not always used in a bad way

[Renee]

Thanks for this post, its always good to hear feedback but my skin isnt that thick - but it's nothing my therapist cant iron out.

I will be on CM shortly.

Surely all the crap given from the other affiliate managers and all the kids teasing you about having no hair has ruined any chance of recovery by now?

Didn't see your post before I posted..

Cheers

[Chips]

Wow has Martyn stirred up a hornets nest or what? This is going longer than I ever imagined.

On to spam.... I have begun to public post those email addresses that have spammed my forum. Maybe I should start posting up the email's that hit my inbox. I am with you Renee, I have a "personal" email for personal use that has never been used for any form of gambling or poker (notice I separated those), and I still get slammed with the spam. Delete key works just fine. I gave up trying to stop it.

[Renee]

Wow has Martyn stirred up a hornets nest or what? This is going longer than I ever imagined.

On to spam.... I have begun to public post those email addresses that have spammed my forum. Maybe I should start posting up the email's that hit my inbox. I am with you Renee, I have a "personal" email for personal use that has never been used for any form of gambling or poker (notice I separated those), and I still get slammed with the spam. Delete key works just fine. I gave up trying to stop it.

I think its hard to draw the line sometimes between venting and bitching. I think Martyn's original post was just a vent (IMO). I suppose he could have done it privately, but then again I don't think he thought the thread would be steered out of what it's original intent was - to vent. I think the original post was meant to be a generalisation and just got steered in another direction because I made a passing comment about something.

[AE-Martyn]

Surely all the crap given from the other affiliate managers and all the kids teasing you about having no hair has ruined any chance of recovery by now?

Please don't mention the no hair thing, it makes me feel inadequate and thanks to you a few more hours in the therapists chair is required now.

I thought I was over it!

Wow has Martyn stirred up a hornets nest or what? This is going longer than I ever imagined.

Yeh..ooops! Someone call the exterminators!

I think its hard to draw the line sometimes between venting and bitching. I think Martyn's original post was just a vent (IMO). I suppose he could have done it privately, but then again I don't think he thought the thread would be steered out of what it's original intent was - to vent. I think the original post was meant to be a generalisation and just got steered in another direction because I made a passing comment about something.

It was a mixture of a vent and a post to get others views on this industry and others that people may be involved in, thats all, nothing more nothing less with no ulterior motive or hidden agenda.

Although I feel this has kinda run its course and derailed slightly but some very good points raised.

[boozaa]

Bald heads = solar panels for sex machines

[AE-Martyn]

Bald heads = solar panels for sex machines

You betchya brother. Thing is the batteries power down pretty quickly in the UK due to lack of sun!!!

[Renee]

Bwahahahahhaha

Boozaa you must be a ring in for Martyn.. 1 post and that's what you come out with!
HAHahahahaah

Thats brilliant. Welcome to the club!

[boozaa]

Bwahahahahhaha

Boozaa you must be a ring in for Martyn.. 1 post and that's what you come out with!
HAHahahahaah

Thats brilliant. Welcome to the club!

Thanks renee ,

Not a ring for martyn, just follically challenged myself, and its better than thinking I'm going bald. I'm having a major problem with it

[AE-Martyn]

I'm having a major problem with it

Dude dont worry about it, embrace it, make it feel welcome then, shave it off. That'll learn it.

You are the boss.

[Daera]

Is it just me or is this industry getting overrun with haters by both players and affiliates (can include player/affiliates in there too, there is a difference).<O</O
<O</O

It seems that more and more posts are being made that simply hate on people, companies, programs, the way things are run etc etc blah blah blah.<O</O
<O</O

Why is this?<O</O
<O</O

Lack of sleep, poor diet, boredom, not making as much cash as they thought due to either casinos not paying out every spin or the affy business isnt as easy as it looks?<O</O

I have noticed there are a number of haters that cover all the major forums and hate on everything and whip up storms for the sake of whipping up storms, is this really a way to do business?

Whats going on?

Do you really think there's so many more haters? That are all consumed in starting unfounded hate threads? Surely you can't be speaking of people that hate Grand Prive for what they've done to affiliates? Or who hate any rogue program or casino for being rogue?

After UIGEA passed, people said there would be a lot more scam/rogue type casinos/affiliate programs popping up. Trying to take the place of the good places that could no longer process U.S. players, and pick up that profit.

Some reasons people might seem more hateful:
- there seems to be more going on these days that isn't above board.
- more predatory terms popping up right now, in programs we've promoted for a long while, leaving us feeling less and less trust for the industry as a whole.
- rogue programs like Grand Prive suddenly deciding they just don't want to continue with their part of an agreement, so simply end the agreement all together.
- perhaps the programs/casinos aren't communicating as clearly and consistantly as they could, and misunderstandings and mishandling further once there is a misunderstanding causes players/affiliates to seem more angry.

Then again, does it matter if more people seem to be unhappy then happy in posts? Some say it doesn't matter if people are talking nicely about you or poorly, as long as they're talking about you. LOL

[AE-Martyn]

Surely you can't be speaking of people that hate Grand Prive for what they've done to affiliates? Or who hate any rogue program or casino for being rogue?

Nope, being from a competitor it wouldnt be too professional of me to comment on that. This does not mean I agree with what has happened.

After UIGEA passed, people said there would be a lot more scam/rogue type casinos/affiliate programs popping up. Trying to take the place of the good places that could no longer process U.S. players, and pick up that profit.

Agreed, this would for sure make players itchy at the slightest delay in payment etc. from a reputable casino and call out for 'stalling' or any other possible tactic used by a scam casino.

Some reasons people might seem more hateful:
- there seems to be more going on these days that isn't above board.
- more predatory terms popping up right now, in programs we've promoted for a long while, leaving us feeling less and less trust for the industry as a whole.
- rogue programs like Grand Prive suddenly deciding they just don't want to continue with their part of an agreement, so simply end the agreement all together.
- perhaps the programs/casinos aren't communicating as clearly and consistantly as they could, and misunderstandings and mishandling further once there is a misunderstanding causes players/affiliates to seem more angry.

Some good point here too, especially that on communication.

Then again, does it matter if more people seem to be unhappy then happy in posts? Some say it doesn't matter if people are talking nicely about you or poorly, as long as they're talking about you. LOL

True, but in competitive industries such as gambling, finance and electricals this could be of great damage to some companies, big and small.

[Daera]

Thanks Renee.

My first post was written nice n fresh although after posting it I did edit it...?

I am not taking any of the hate pointed at me/us personally, it just gets me wondering what a persons motive is and what their life must be like to contiuenally hate across all major boards about anything, even if its nothing to do with them.

What you see happening is people jumping on the band wagon, I could start a thread in a player forum about me losing at an online casino and blame them for wrong doing in the post. I am 98% sure that i would get at least 2 leaches joining the hate campaign.

Whats their motivation?

This is what we encourage at online forums.

If people are only comfortable to post positive things, there would be a lot less posting and forum interaction. And the less new posts to read, the less often we come to visit the forum. New forum members are less likely to post anything. It takes time for them to come out of their shells and post. If we lose their interest right away, they won't ever come back, or post anything themselves. That's a shame. The more people that contribute in forum conversations, the more useful and intresting a forum becomes.

Online forums need the haters just as much as the happy campers.

[Betpartners]

I agree that two sides are required to make a forum interactive, would be a very boring place otherwise.

Just not sure haters need be one of those sides.

Whats wrong with people having differing views and debating very passionately without the venom thats comes with hatred?

I can name quite a few members on here that have disagreed with me passionately and the threads have gone on and on while we debate it out and still maintain a sense of decorum.

Haters is a word that is open to perception, my perception may be well different to yours but anyone that cannot debate without hurling insults and abuse in my opinion is more likely to put off new forum members than encourage them to stay and become a contributor.

It does not require a degree in intelligence to disagree with passion and make a thread interesting and attarctive to new users.

A quick look any day on here will always throw up threads like that.

People with hatred tend to get a thread derailed and the thread then just goes downhill with nothing being acheived,

Far better to achive solutions through two sides having diverging opinions rather than who has the biggest stick.

[AK]

HodgeyBoy Martyn you are such a knob[/quote]

People like this guy listed above are a cancer to the industry.

I hold my breath to meet You.

[Renee]

People like this guy listed above me are a cancer to the industry.

I hold my breath to meet You.

Are you being a hater AK? LOL

I'm actually wondering if you're serious here...

[AE-Martyn]

HodgeyBoy Martyn you are such a knob
People like this guy listed above are a cancer to the industry.

I hold my breath to meet You.

I disagree, I think you two have history hence this post. A tad harsh I think.

Are you being a hater AK? LOL

I'm actually wondering if you're serious here...

I think he is, I am aware something went on in the past. Myself, Hodgey and AK had a 3 way a while back....a 3 way MSN conversation I mean.