Haters

[AE-Martyn]

Some great comments here and glad to see that I didnt get hated upon for speaking out

We are all working towards the same goal so why do they try screw about and act like a goon at the soonest possible chance. If you dont like a program then dont promote it and call it a day, right?

Dont bitch about it and carry on promoting a program, right?

I have noticed this throught the last 4 years and is not aimed at anyone in particular....YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE

Whats this about all the smileys? HodgeyBoy also said something about that? There is 1 smiley in my post.

[kwblue]

There were quite a few in the first post... typically happens in vBulletin when you paste from an email or other source.

I think that Microsoft applications also will paste smileys in on accident. Has to do with the code it inserts.

If you paste into vBulletin, it is best to click on the 'A' in the right corner before posting your hateful threads Otherwise you will get

[Renee]

On the player side it's easier to understand. People hate losing, many players don't know when to stop and they take their frustration out on the boards. With affiliates there is little excuse unless you get shafted and then arguably it's their own fault for not doing due diligence.

Also worth remembering is being an affiliate has low barriers to entry. You don't need to be edumacated or business savvy. Both sides of the fence will attract all sorts.

Most of the people you see "hating" on the boards would not be nearly so obnoxious in real life I suspect. They use the anonymity to try and play at being a big shot.

Like Renee suggests, the savvy ones know that diplomacy gets you a lot further. The haters just end up being hated, aprt from by other haters obvioulsy LOL.

Hahahhah

After reading your post mate I have been in hysterics reading every one after it..

I have a song in my head:

They see me rollin', they hatin'..
And the image of one of those demotivational posters with a gangsta wannabe in a wheelchair rollin down the street.

HAHAHA

[Chips]

Being in retail for 31 years, I learned a long time ago to hate everyone. I am not prejudice. I hate everyone the same flipping way.


Seriously though... I think that some affiliates live by the notion of "make tons of cash for 4 hours a day".... what they failed to see was that meant 4 hours sleep a day.

In hard times people will lash out but there have been some people who have legitimate bitches about certain programs that are giving the hard working affiliates the bone. I am not mentioning any program, network, genre here. Just an overall view. Perhaps when things were running good these folks would overlook a few short comings in programs as they were still rolling in the bucks from other programs.

These days you have to be very selective of where you are sending traffic. One slip and you lose big time. Now, ig the program is giving you the smelly end of the stick and it would account for a large portion of your income, would you not be lashing out? I know I would. Damn, this is a hard, cut throat, neverending labor of love we do. Mess with my money and I will slit your throat faster than you cam blink.

Just my view. Like it or post your own thoughts.

[Renee]

How could anyone threaten our Renee?

Tell us next time somebody threatens you and we will get them!

The last one I can remember is from a guy who signed up to the affiliate program and obviously forgot about it.. The email contents were something like:

I never f***ing signed up to your f***ing program so f***ing stop f***ing sending me these f***ing emails or I will f***ing track you down and f***ing stab you in the f***ing eye.

That's gold right there.

Another guy who was spamming me with fraud payment processor crap also threatened me when I asked him to remove me from his list coz we weren't interested, he said no, so i told him ill just forward the emails to spamcop. Got 3 of his email addresses closed then he started sending me threats via a random hotmail address saying things like "Watch out Renee. F*** you!"

Real hardcore stuff you know LOL

Sometimes haters are fun.

Then you get the ones who don't like rejection. A previous member of the forums told me once because I told him I wasn't interested in him, that of all the Hungarian whores he knew, I was his third favourite. How sweet.

Martyn I think you are the most hated aff manager over at CMs at the moment too.. I had a feeling that might be why you started this thread actually

[pgaming]

Us affiliates IMO always must watch our backsides too often. I fail to see the correlation using diplomacy amongst liars and cheats. Yes I wake up to this reality everyday and yes I do “hate” these sorts of people. For example, I “hate” Grand Prive and the people who knowingly participated in stealing honest peoples earnings.

I “hate” those who only purpose in life taking more than their fair share. How one person could be worth billions while people are starving on their feet in beyond my understanding.

I “hate” parasitic people, those who need an innocent host to survive. Content thieves come to mind, crap programs, back stabbers, suppose I “hate” a lot.

Hate is an relative word.

In all fairness not angry, “hating” something is no less natural than the grass.

I hate grass as well.

greek39

[greedygirl]

I've seen this sort of 'hateration' happen around the boards every couple years (give or take a month or two, here and there!). It seems to ride a wave and then enough people get sick of the bitching, whining, whinging and moaning and they drop off the charts til things get nice and happy, again.

I absolutely agree with AmCan's assessment--the economic downturn will certainly adds to the negativity. Remember--with huge unemployment, there are a lot more people home with little to do (although they probably should be out searching for work!). They're venting on things that would ordinarily roll off their backs.

Also, because of the economic woes, I believe many people are searching for that last little morsel of free money offered by whatever casino is dishing it out. I don't believe they really care anymore whether it's a decent establishment at all...instead, IMO, they're hoping someone will bail them out should the casino screw them. So many of these people are bitching about bonus terms right now that it's just annoying noise--most of these people know better by now.

As for affiliates bitching, well, er, uh, I've never noticed any affiliates moaning or groaning!

[Betpartners]

This could be an interesting thread indeed especially when one considers the source of the hatred.

There is no excuse for insults, abuse and such like, i only left a response a few days back in relation to someone being abusive on here, it is not what we want.

Yes the economic downturn will highten passions and so on but it is not all a one way street.

So here goes

From an affiliate perspective anger comes generally from a financial point of view and affiliate programs have done their very best to perpetuate this.

Now dont get me wrong we all know who are the good programs so not digging at anyone here but we also know about the bad programs and the programs in that grey area and it always comes down to money.

When affiliates are ripped off or treated badly they react and will continue to do so, when they do not receive the promised support or are subjected to some very erroneous t&c changes and so on they will react.

So i would suggest that some affiliate programs should first look at themselves and how they behave and then ask themselves is it not their own fault that people get angry and bitch and whine on forums.

Now for the second time on this post of mine i am not refering to the good programs so dont take this personal, it is not meant like that, but until the affiliate program industry gets its own house in order without ulterior motives they can hardly complain when some affiliates do not have a high opinion of them.

When a representative body of affiliates (CAP) misbehaved it was the affiliate community itself that brought them to heel, i dont ever see affiliate programs bringing rogue affiliate programs to heel, with some imagination they could, but they dont.

There thats my 2 cents and personally i dont care who hates me and in fact if i was not hated by some people then i would really hate that.

Sometimes to be hated is a badge of honour to be worn with pride.

[KasinoKing]

Is it just me or is this industry getting overrun with haters by both players and affiliates (can include player/affiliates in there too, there is a difference).<O</O
<O</O

It seems that more and more posts are being made that simply hate on people, companies, programs, the way things are run etc etc blah blah blah.<O</O
<O</O

Why is this?

It's because there are so many thinks wrong with this industry we are in.
Most of the "haters" are just trying to get things put right.

To some people (including me), little things are VERY annoying.
For example, I sent an e-mail to Martyn Beacon @ CWC NINE days ago and he still hasn't replied...

KK

[AE-Martyn]

Martyn I think you are the most hated aff manager over at CMs at the moment too.. I had a feeling that might be why you started this thread actually

Thanks Renee.

My first post was written nice n fresh although after posting it I did edit it...?

I am not taking any of the hate pointed at me/us personally, it just gets me wondering what a persons motive is and what their life must be like to contiuenally hate across all major boards about anything, even if its nothing to do with them.

What you see happening is people jumping on the band wagon, I could start a thread in a player forum about me losing at an online casino and blame them for wrong doing in the post. I am 98% sure that i would get at least 2 leaches joining the hate campaign.

Whats their motivation?

[AE-Martyn]

It's because there are so many thinks wrong with this industry we are in.
Most of the "haters" are just trying to get things put right.

To some people (including me), little things are VERY annoying.
For example, I sent an e-mail to Martyn Beacon @ CWC NINE days ago and he still hasn't replied...

KK

Do you care to resend that to my email address martyn@cwcaffiliates.com as nothing has turned up from you in a long time.

Cheers.

[Integrity]

I think I might be over qualified to chime in on this thread, as I may have more personal haters than just about anyone else in this industry... outside of Russ Hamilton.

I can say with all honesty that I have always followed my own convictions and done what I thought was best due to my deep feeling of responsibility toward webmasters and players. I haven't been perfect, but my intentions were. And as a result, I have often been crucified on forums, had my integrity questioned, and had my character assassinated. It's been very interesting to watch and a tremendous learning experience for me. But it is why I almost never participate in message boards anymore.

Remember that I had to shut down all my portals in 2006 after Washington State came after me. Then the UIGEA finished off what little residual income I was still making. My family lost over 85% of our total income... we had to move to a small house where my kids couldn't play outside ... we had more than one car repossessed... and I never said a word or asked for sympathy.

I truly thank God that I had the APCW to fall back on, and a talent I could monetize. Slowly we're recovering, although some "haters" have even criticized me for feeding my kids by selling advertising on the videos. These people are quite unique for sure, and it really makes me wonder how unhappy their lives must be to devote so much of their time to trying to hurt others.

Now, I tell you all these things so I can assure you that no matter what anyone says you just have to keep going. Just keep doing what you believe is best. I do what it takes to support my family and at the end of the day I lay my head on my pillow and sleep like a baby... without even a small thought about who doesn't like me or why... because you just can't live that way.

They can hate whatever they want and I will never care. I have far too much important stuff on my mind to lower myself to their miserable levels. Don't any of you do it either.

[joeyl]

What a ridiculous over generalisation. I'll play.

What I see here, is a bunch of industryites hating on those that have the audacity to speak up for themselves.

Players should just stop complaining right?

I bet you lot would love that.

Keep dreaming.

You preside over an industry where 1 side literally holds all the cards, and want it to stay that way, because anything else is to threaten that cashcow.

[AE-Martyn]

What a ridiculous over generalisation. I'll play.

What I see here, is a bunch of industryites hating on those that have the audacity to speak up for themselves.

Players should just stop complaining right?

I bet you lot would love that.

Keep dreaming.

You preside over an industry where 1 side literally holds all the cards, and want it to stay that way, because anything else is to threaten that cashcow.

As I said, its not all about the players, affiliates also and not just in this vertical as I stated.

Complaints from players though help casinos identify weakeness and training issues, which is good. Being a hater is something completely different. Maybe I am not getting my point across properly?

I am not basing this purely on this industry, I have been involved in a couple of different verticals and it happens everywhere from what I gather and has nothing to do with the merchant holding all the cards. I think you misunderstood.

[Betpartners]

I have more to say sorry

I wont name names at this point because i am seeking clarification but i have just received an email from a sportsbook that its dropping its revenue share down to 15% that is after it was dropped to 20%.

Now when this sort of thing is done it turns normal indivduals in to someone that becomes bitter and resentful, can you imagine how they become when things like Grand Prive happen.

It does not matter what vertical it is or what industry, if affiliates are treated right then they will have no reason to constantly complain.

I fully understand what you mean by haters, i do, they are the ones that come on to threads with no conncection to that thread other than to call someone names and throw vile abuse.

I know what you mean.

My arguement is how do you think they got so bitter and twisted and are full of hate and let it be known they are when ever they can.

I would bet big that at some time they have been ripped off or treated badly in some way in the past.

People dont hate for the sake of it, there is a source and the source is always the same.

Does not excuse their behaviour, i accept that, but i can fully understand why they get like this.

There are somke affiliates that are themselves cheats and theives and a pain for Affiliate programs, that i also accept but in my opinion programs have so much more to answer for and it is they that dont face up to this.

Todays actions by a well known sportsbook and its complete disregard for its affiliates if it is confirmed as i think it will be is just another example.

[raphnix]

I fear that I'll be the only one to suspect this one. My idea is that some affiliates or players are doing it for competition, business-wise. I'm afraid I should leave it up to you guys where my statement would lead to.

[AE-Martyn]

I have more to say sorry

I wont name names at this point because i am seeking clarification but i have just received an email from a sportsbook that its dropping its revenue share down to 15% that is after it was dropped to 20%.

Now when this sort of thing is done it turns normal indivduals in to someone that becomes bitter and resentful, can you imagine how they become when things like Grand Prive happen.

I dont think this is classed as being a hater, more badly treated. Especially if they just announced that they are dropping your %.

Granted, I have done this in the past but have given the affiliate/s time to work on things before taking any action. In the instances that this has been done before the affiliate/s were on top % level producing barely any stats, is that fair?

I would always try and work this out if it was based on stats rather than just a straight drop.

In this case your issue would be justified I think and you will obviously be trying to resolve this with the unnamed bookie.

[Betpartners]

I dont think this is classed as being a hater, more badly treated. Especially if they just announced that they are dropping your %.

Granted, I have done this in the past but have given the affiliate/s time to work on things before taking any action. In the instances that this has been done before the affiliate/s were on top % level producing barely any stats, is that fair?

I would always try and work this out if it was based on stats rather than just a straight drop.

In this case your issue would be justified I think and you will obviously be trying to resolve this with the unnamed bookie.

In this case i believe it is done across the board because it was a generic email and so has nothing to do with some on top % etc.

But my point was this is a case of being one of the causes of hatred as you have put it because it is symptomatic of whats going on.

This action as a one off is not in itself the reason that people become haters but more one of many reasons why people do.

Now personally i have no time to hate, i will deal with this bookie in my own time and in my own way, if they insist on this drop then i will make a decision to continue with them or not and if i do not i wont then turn in to a hater.

I cannot envisage any sitaution where i would because i dont really have that character, i just move on and deal with it.

What i am saying is that these are the sort of stunts that get pulled that alienate people, that frustrate them, then make them mad especially when it directly effects their income.

I have on occasions on here found reason to argue with affiliates especially those that attack and are rude etc, i am not condoning this behaviour, what i am saying is that in my opinion it is the affiliate proigrams themselves that have casued some people to hate so much.

Yes some are just that way out, some are vindictive and nasty by their very nature, but they are in the minority, the others that are full of resentment have been made that way.

A month never ever goes by without one program or another pulling some sort of stunt and that is done even when affiliates have places like this, CM, CAP, AGD, PAL, CAL,GAP and many others to vent their issues and even then the programs still continue with bad decisions,

Either this industry is full of the worst public relation executives or they simply do not regard affiliates on a level that one expects.

[Chalkie]

Haters, moaners, the fair brigade and normal people - thats what we are made up of!

Moaners start a thread, normal people make reasonable comments if at all, then the haters jump on the band wagon and cause chaos, the normal people retreat as a rule at this point allowing the fair brigade to try to make some headway in the thread and return it to civility and sensibility, however, not to be out done the haters retaliate, generally dragging the fair brigade into the row and making them out to be allies with the subject of the original complaint and further chaos and confusion ensues!

50% of the time this then leads to all sorts of false accusations and threats of some kind, people fall out all over the place, the thread then resembles Baghdad high street on a bad day, nothing is resolved and the original moaner wonders why on earth he started world war III and can no longer remember what it was he originally complained about!

Ever noticed how threads in the private section never get to be as full of histrionics as the public ones?

So therefore Martin you are a moaner using the explanation of the above!

Who are the haters and fair brigade though? Infact, do we have any normal people here in this thread?

Well thats my comedy sketch for the day!

[GamTrak]

Thanks for having the balls to post this JTodd! I saw it all go down with you and I'm very happy that things are going well for you and yours these days.

I've had folks publically hating on me since 2002 for no other reason then I refused to continue 'hating' on someone they did not like and had a standing fued with. Once I 'rebelled' they opened up my private posts to the 'enemy' and set out to combine their hate and direct it toward me.

I've had my forum hacked by someone that I trusted who 'turned on me' because they did not like the way I handled a situation with another staff member, personal address and details posted at 'hate forums' they create, said to have stolen money from the church plate as it passed, and many horrible things, BUT I did exactly what you advised in your post. You have to ignore it and do what you do best to survive it. I only know 90% of what I do because others have told me about seeing it done.

One day I got word on something just did not sit well with me and was very happy when the forum owner did something about it.

Some folks are just cut out to be haters and that will never change. It's how you react (and I've not done very well in the past) to it. Now days I could care less who said what because I've never lied or cheated anyone that I've ever met and do sleep very well at night. I'm not perfect, but then I don't strive to be.

Whew! Feels good to get that off my chest or boobies!

I think I might be over qualified to chime in on this thread, as I may have more personal haters than just about anyone else in this industry... outside of Russ Hamilton.

I can say with all honesty that I have always followed my own convictions and done what I thought was best due to my deep feeling of responsibility toward webmasters and players. I haven't been perfect, but my intentions were. And as a result, I have often been crucified on forums, had my integrity questioned, and had my character assassinated. It's been very interesting to watch and a tremendous learning experience for me. But it is why I almost never participate in message boards anymore.

Remember that I had to shut down all my portals in 2006 after Washington State came after me. Then the UIGEA finished off what little residual income I was still making. My family lost over 85% of our total income... we had to move to a small house where my kids couldn't play outside ... we had more than one car repossessed... and I never said a word or asked for sympathy.

I truly thank God that I had the APCW to fall back on, and a talent I could monetize. Slowly we're recovering, although some "haters" have even criticized me for feeding my kids by selling advertising on the videos. These people are quite unique for sure, and it really makes me wonder how unhappy their lives must be to devote so much of their time to trying to hurt others.

Now, I tell you all these things so I can assure you that no matter what anyone says you just have to keep going. Just keep doing what you believe is best. I do what it takes to support my family and at the end of the day I lay my head on my pillow and sleep like a baby... without even a small thought about who doesn't like me or why... because you just can't live that way.

They can hate whatever they want and I will never care. I have far too much important stuff on my mind to lower myself to their miserable levels. Don't any of you do it either.