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  1. #41
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    Dear Friends,

    Please excuse the fact that I am only going to cover basic facts in this post and try not to give opinion or speculation. This is a delicate situation, as you can imagine, and I know that Michael is reading all the posts on many forums before writing a reply. Below is the events in order that I was witness to personally.


    ================================================== ===


    I arrived at the convention about mid-day and witnessed Steven outside the event with security speaking to him. He was obviously upset. I listened as they told him he could re-enter the hotel via the commons area in the lobby, but not return to the event.

    After security left, Steven informed me that they had escorted him out of the CAP Event, even though had been registered in advance and was wearing his wrist band and a badge which granted him access.

    Steven did as they instructed and walked around the building to the lobby entrance, and we had a day of meetings without ever going near the entrance to the CAP Event. It should be noted that the GPWA also had a paid room in this hotel.

    Many hours past without incident, until I was speaking with Dom's assistant, Donna, in the hotel lobby. I personally witnessed Steven being "escorted" from the lobby in front of hundreds of stunned people. There were 4 security officers: 2 had Steven's arms pinned back in a "chicken wing" type of submission hold with his head forced forward. 2 more officers followed to keep people away. Steven was obviously in pain and loudly telling them they were hurting him, but they continued to push him toward the elevators at a very quick pace.

    I immediately pulled out my camera phone and attempted to get some photos. One photo on my phone is not too bad, but the other two do not capture Steven at all, only the officers. They pressed Steven to an elevator face first, leaning on him with their weight to "force compliance" (although Steven never resisted) before pushing him into the elevator when it opened.

    Dominique and Affiliate Manager Roman from Intertops were shouting at the officers to stop being so rough. Dom was obviously upset, and Roman was yelling that this was supposed to be a civilized country. The doors shut and Steven disappeared with the 4 officers, alone. He was being thrown out of the hotel... not just the Cap Event (We were later told by a reliable source that both of the ejections were personally ordered by Lou Fabiano). I was already calling Michael.

    Michael was down within a few moments and was taken by security to meet with someone inside the event. From other statements I assume this was Warren Jolly, Lou's partner, and Alex Pratt, event organizer. I followed them as far as I could but had to stop when they entered the event.

    I stood there for a few moments, not sure what to do... where Steven or Michael were... wondering if Rebecca had seen any of this. It was then that Lou Fabiano walked up behind me and things got even worse.

    I turned and saw him starring at me. It was obvious he was furious. He said: "YOU ACTUALLY F---ING CAME TO MY EVENT???" I looked around to see if he had anyone with him that I hadn't noticed yet... he did not. I said, "Yea, obviously I did."

    Lou then said: "Let's step outside and talk about this." I was puzzled, as there were numerous conference rooms. The thought of a fist fight was far from my mind because that's just absurd. So I said, "What?"

    Lou said again: "Let's go outside --- me and you --- and settle this like men!". Absolutely stunned, my reply was, "Are you sure you want to do that?". He said he was damn sure. I said OK.

    Now, at this point I wish to make it clear that I was still totally perplexed. It was hard to wrap my mind around the fact that Lou Fabiano, President of CAP, was truly challenging me to a fist fight. I was not angry. I did not shout. I did not curse. I had no intention of throwing a blow at all. In the back of my head for some reason, I was still not 100% certain he actually wanted to physically fight.

    Hindsight what it is, I now fully realize the man was totally serious. Had I gone outside with him, I don't believe I would have actually gotten into a real fight. I am fairly agile and think I could have avoided an assault by Mr Fabiano who --- most likely --- would not have lasted very long before he tired or someone broke it up.

    However, I was walking outside with him when another affiliate manager, Shay from Rummy Royal, stepped in. Having witnessed the whole exchange, and having known me for several years, Shay said:"J Todd, as your friend I am telling you that you are not going outside with him." The reality soon hit me. I thanked him for caring and having the courage to step in. I stopped and started to walk away.

    Lou, however, wasn't done. He began to taunt me and shout across the lobby until Shay was able to calm him down as well. Lou just starred at me like he wanted to rip my soul out. I also have a picture of that on my phone (yea, I was calm enough to snap another picture! LOL!).


    ================================================== ===


    The whole thing was a disgusting mess. It's been my job to report on the recent events of this industry, and that has hit Lou and Warren hard. And even though Michael and I have told the truth, reported facts, and done what we felt was best for the industry it's still very upsetting for me to be a part of something which --- on the surface --- seems to be detrimental for us.

    I am deeply saddened and very embarrassed to have been involved in something like this. I am sorry if anyone feels I acted incorrectly, and I hope you all forgive me if you feel that I've contributed to something that has hurt online gaming.

    Warren had no part in these antics. Alex Pratt was wonderful and did his damn best to prevent these things from taking place. But I don't think anyone could have predicted that Lou would act in a way that seems to demonstrate a serious lack of judgment and common sense.


    ================================================== ===


    FOR THE RECORD: There was no "brawl". There were no "punches". Michael didn't scream at anyone. And I never saw any police anywhere.

    ALSO: You will have to wait for me to return State side to retrieve my pictures... I cannot send them to my email here.
    Last edited by Integrity; 30 January 2009 at 9:25 pm.

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  3. #42
    arkyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominique View Post
    No one punched me out or even quarrelled with me at all.
    Did anyone every say or imply in anyway that you were involved? I must have missed that.

    Good to hear all is well Integrity - hope Steve will be ok as well.

    Keep your eyes open and stick in pairs!

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  5. #43
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    I assure you, I realize the seriousness of this...
    I am sorry to hear how roughly Steve was treated.
    I'm also sorry to learn that such a scene happened in an industry event!

    But...am I the only one LMAO here? It's so very bizarre! LMAO!
    Holy ****!


    p.s. Jtodd, from all accounts you behaved like a gentleman.
    Janet

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  7. #44
    casinobonusguy is offline Private Member
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  9. #45
    NLP-GOD is offline Public Member
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    I am under the impression is too serious to actually be funny - I think a lot of us are emotionally involved in this whole thing (some more than others) - but I have thought about it a lot today. And I go through all sorts of feelings. When I put myself in Stevens shoes it is absolutely not funny.

    I am shocked about the original allegations with EM running these programs and the same people running CAP. Too me it appears to be pretty deceptive behavior to people who thought they were at somewhat of an affiliate community that in part was there to help affiliates who were having problems with a program.

    We always refered to it to "crossing to the dark side" - when you couldn't be a member of the private forums at GPWA , etc , if I remember correctly. Because everyone knew we didn't want the operators know what we were discussing. (because it was usually them) ..

  10. #46
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    Many online gambling analysts and industry insiders are warning CAP, GPWA, Gambling911, JTodd, and other angry affiliates to not let the CAP scandals and rogue poker room fiasco get out of control. We strongly disagree. Let the fire burn, we say.

    These so-called experts worry that outside sources, like Focus on the Family, or politicians who vehemently denounce all forms of gambling (except of course for bingo, horse racing, and the lottery), will use the current situation to prove of the corruption within the industry. They may say the industry is run 'mafioso style'. They may say the industry is in chaos. They may say lots of things, but one thing they cannot say is that the industry sits back and does nothing when corruption is revealed.

    If the world is watching, let them, we say, our true colors are showing through, and they reveal a strong hatred for corruption and monopolies...

    And if analysts want to use the past week's craziness against us, show them this article and they may realize that this is a time for the online gambling industry to rejoice in its strength, not fear for its weaknesses.
    Online Casino Advisory Article

  11. #47
    ck8795 is offline Private Member
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    meh that story is just taking a few comments here and there from PAL and elsewhere and spinning it into something bigger than what was said. I dont think any of the main stream media would really care tbh. I mean look at the AB stuff and how far that had to go before they actually picked it up.

    not let the CAP scandals and rogue poker room fiasco get out of control. We strongly disagree. Let the fire burn, we say
    That bothers me. Why do they want it to continue? more stories to write about.

  12. #48
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    Many online gambling analysts and industry insiders are warning CAP, GPWA, Gambling911, JTodd, and other angry affiliates to not let the CAP scandals and rogue poker room fiasco get out of control. We strongly disagree. Let the fire burn, we say.
    I for one agree to let it burn and if needed, add more fuel to the fire. I actually have not commented on any of this situation because of what I thought regarding its affect on me as a small time affiliate. After thinking longer about the situation I have come to feel that it affects every single one of us affiliates in the industry. With the lack of trust for some affiliate programs during this time its unthinkable that something like this issue would arise. But it has and should be dealt with until it is fixed.

    The question of whether CAP has a serious interest in "Cardspike" should be made public in the opinion of most affiliates including myself. Those affiliates who think the issue should have been solved behind closed doors are simply wrong and are not familiar as what these sites ( GPWA / CAP ) are suppose to stand for. The reason for the forums is to deal with issues in public or whats the point of having them.

    Im pretty sure the reason for the "fight" at CAP Convention is because "Lou' was still ticked off about the whole situation and the fact that the company he represents has been caught in one of the biggets scams this industry has seen in years. You know how angry people get when they get caught doing something wrong. Its a natural defensive reaction.

    This CAP meetings was a perfect opourtunity for gpwa / apcw / cap to get together and talk like civil human beings but of course they did not according to the statment made in this forum and CAP. It would appear ( according to the accusations ) that CAP believes themselves to be too big in the industry to sit down and chat like real men. Instead Lou decided to pick a fight. Shame on you Lou and this just added to the facts against you and CAP.

    As a betting man, I am willing to bet this has made many affiliate programs reconsider their situation with CAP. Of course now the cost of a CAP badge will probably drop considerably. What program would want to be represented by a program that would have one of its leaders sink to such low levels as to call out someone like J TODD thats has done so much for this industy.

    affiliates in my opinion really need to consider some of the facts when considering requesting help from such a program as CAP and its a crying shame because as I know they have helped many affiliates over the years.

    What would solve the actual issue? I believe most would agree that full discloure would seriously help. An apoligy from the staff involved from CAP would definitly help as well. If the facts posted are true its about time they do but can also see why they wouldnt, full discloure would cause a serious decrease in cap earnings in a very short period.

    Its time to give it up, admit you did wrong and deal with the "Consequences"
    instead of causing more problems by being stuborn, imature and causing fights. Grow up !

    Let's go outside --- me and you --- and settle this like men!
    LOL for real?

    Chris

    ps GFPC & CASINOBONUSGUY I also live in Toronto if any of you would like to get together. You can add me to msn as well, brewman20@hotmail.com is my live chat msn name.
    Epic Gambler - Reviews, Ratings, Excitement

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  14. #49
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    The fact that violence was implied, threatened or whatever is absolutely disgusting, i cannot stand violence in any form and to think it has taken place at an industry event defies belief.

    Now an actual physical confrontation may have not have taken place but just to offer it up is enough.

    I spent last weekend on here trying to explain how this cardspike/CAP/GPWA was doing no one any good whoever was to blame and now look what has happened.

    It makes no difference to the image of this industry who was to blame or the causes etc but if anyone thinks that the people that run gambling casinos/poker/sportsbooks will be impressed by this ongoing feud then i am sorry you are misguided.

    How the hell did anyone expect CAP to react?

    Why GPWA turned up is beyond me, it was always going to wind up CAP massively and you must have known this, its provocation nothing less and yes i expect a flaming response, but sorry it was, whether GPWA is right in ALL that it is done is beside the point, if you run a campaign as GPWA have done against CAP and then turn up at their event, well what can i say.

    CAP for its part are by far the worse here, their behaviour is not how business men should behave, they have lowered their image terribly and i have already spoken with some of my friends that attended the event and they have told me they simply cannot be associated with CAP, cannot blame them.

    I stand by my previous comments about GPWA investigating CAP, its all there to be read, but this behaviour by CAP is repugnant.

    I offered my opinion that a mediator should be in place to sort this CAP GPWA feud but now i dont think that is a good idea.

    GPWA should rise above this now, if you continue to get involved with CAP at events or in feuds you will only get dragged down with them, they seem to be on a self destruct mode, stay clearb of it, just not worth it anymore.

    As for security cards and someones comment about thinking that England was a civilised country, get real it is, security guards all over the world take no chances and remove people by force, its their job and to brand the UK as uncivilised because of this is stupid.

    I mean security guards getting heavy, was that really a surprise?

    And if they were too heavy, report it to the police, they will act if a crime has been commited

    But come on this is now well out of hand and CAP may well be getting damaged big time by this and probably rightfully so, but be careful GPWA that you dont get smeared, step away chaps for your own image and reputation, allow others like casinomeister forum, gambling911, blogs and whatever to continue the fight, youve done your bit, let others carry that torch.

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  16. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkyt View Post
    Did anyone every say or imply in anyway that you were involved? I must have missed that.
    These were rumors at the conference and people came up to me asking. I figured they would filter down eventually to the forums. There are a lot more weird rumors out there and I wanted just facts to be discussed.

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  18. #51
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    I don't think GPWA people showed up to start fights, rather they kept their distance. Most people in this industry have friends on all sides of the equations and they probably booked their flights and hotels well before any of the cardspike allegations happened. They attended ICEi and I wouldn't expect them to have to change their hotel venues because they were banned from attending the cap conference fairly last minute. No matter how you look at it, it's a dark cloud over this conference and industry at the moment. It was going really well up until yesterday and the cap awards was a great show put together.

    All I care at this point is that Steven is ok. I am sure Michael felt sick to his stomach to hear his son was being forced out of the hotel. I am glad Alex and Warren stepped in to help and sort out the mess.

    Nothing else to report on my end, going to tune this out today and enjoy the rest of the conference. Otherwise it has been very productive, have so many more new friends here and also been a great time.

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  20. #52
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    The events of yesterday evening were pretty upsetting to me personally.

    Alex Pratt, who works with the good folks at iGaming Business, and who does much of the hard work of organizing and putting on the events was also pretty clearly upset about what happened. I've known Alex for a long time, and have a great deal of respect for him, as I believe all in the industry who know him well do also.

    And Warren of Affiliate Media - the company that operates the CAP website, and the company that partners with Alex's company in putting on the CAP events was clearly not happy about the situation either.

    I'm going to try to avoid repeating what J.Todd said in his post earlier in this thread. He was present in the hotel lobby when the events occurred, and I was not, and the situation as he describes it is consistent with what I was told by Steven and by others present in the hotel lobby at the time.

    I came down from a suite in the hotel when J.Todd called me about Steven to try to find out what had happened to him and where he was because all I knew from the phone call I received was that Steven had been forcefully taken away in the elevator from the hotel lobby.

    So I took the elevator from the lobby level to street level, and found Steven outside the hotel. Steven was pretty shaken, but seemed to be doing as well as could be expected under the circumstances. Steven did not want to go back into the hotel at the time since he has been told the police would be called and he would be arrested if he came into the hotel again, but neither did he want to have to stay outside for long.

    I went back inside and spoke with the three security guards that were inside the door to prevent Steven from coming inside. I explained that I did not believe they had a right to remove him from the hotel, and asked who they were. One said that he worked for the hotel and the other two security guards said they were hired by the event organizer.

    I was told the order to remove Steven was given by the event organizer, and that I would need to talk with them. I agreed to be escorted to the event organizers office so I could discuss the matter with them. After a short delay I spoke with a woman who worked with Alex as part of the event organization team. She apologized for what had happened, and said that Steven should not have been removed from the building, and that he would be allowed to return inside.

    Later I learned that the order to have Steven removed was given by Lou. I also learned that Lou was asked to leave the hotel by the other parties involved in organizing the event, that the hotel security staff were told that they were not to accept such order from Lou in the future, and that any future orders of that sort needed to be given by Alex.

    When I went back outside to let Steven know he could come back into the hotel, I found him listening to an angry Lou who was waiting to leave in a taxi with his wife. While I was there Lou made a number of comments that were threatening to both Steven and I, and also that were threatening to J.Todd, and asked that we bring J.Todd outside. When Steven asked Lou if he really meant the threats that were being made, he confirmed that was the case and said we could publish it.

    Shortly after I had gone back outside to see Steven, Alex and Warren also came outside. I learned that they had sent Lou outside to take a cab because they wanted him to leave the conference hotel. They made sure Lou got in the cab and we went inside. The four of us agreed to talk about the situation and to try to put things in a better place.

    The four of us meet for a good hour, and we all were in agreement that it was not good for anyone for this sort of discord to exist.

    Warren talked about wanting to work together as partners, and that an apology on our part would be a first step in making that happen. Personally, I had a hard time wrapping my head around the concept that we owe him an apology and he does not owe us one, but the conversation was in general a positive one with neither of us wanting public confrontations.

    I talked with Alex later in the evening. As I said at the beginning of this post, I have known Alex for a long time and respect him very much. Alex said he was going to try to see that we were given passes for the conference because he thought that was the right thing to happen. This morning, while I was typing in this post, I received a text message from Alex letting me know that was the case. Thanks Alex, and thanks Warren for agreeing to Alex's request.

    Personally, I just want to put this whole upsetting episode behind me. And I want to make sure that those who are upset about the situation don't associate it with Alex or Warren because it was not the doing of either of them.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

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  22. #53
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    Thanks for posting this Michael and I am glad to hear no one was hurt. The events described make me embarrassed to be working in this industry. It will be interesting to see what the leading gaming groups make of all of this. One thing for sure is that CAP has surely lost what little credability it had remaining as a result of the antics that took place last night.
    Exit stage left

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  24. #54
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    Hey there thank you for the reply.

    I think Pumacat yourself and me are all from Toronto. Maybe yes we can get together somewhere for lunch or something and discuss this with a Canadian flare!! LOL

    Lets all try and find a time!!

    Steve


    Quote Originally Posted by casinobonusguy View Post
    GFPC ,
    I live in Toronto ,we should get together for lunch sometime.You seem like a nice person and probably you would try to settle all your disagreements over a nice cup of tea and a chat but I think this situation is beyond this point.

    Last week all of CAP was practically crying to leave Lou alone and he has health problems -myself included on that list.But if he is in London asking for a physical fight then I think much of the last week has been just Bullcrap.
    I think this has gotten to a point where people have to make decisions for themselves where they want to be nd what they want to represent to this industry..


  25. #55
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    Mr. Corfman, I hope you're taking this case to the Court. Sue the **** out from the hotel, security guards and fabiano. There is no place for dictators in the 21. century.

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    The next Perspectives Weekly is going to be rather interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by worthy View Post
    Mr. Corfman, I hope you're taking this case to the Court. Sue the **** out from the hotel, security guards and fabiano. There is no place for dictators in the 21. century.
    Sue them for what? removing someone from a hotel/conference or whatever, be realistic millions of people worldwide daily get removed from places and i have no doubts a lot were unwarranted but to start to talking about suing people is just taking this too far.

    Same as the headline of this forum "assaulted" looks like a real over dramatising of what happened,

    As Michael himself said

    came down from a suite in the hotel when J.Todd called me about Steven to try to find out what had happened to him and where he was because all I knew from the phone call I received was that Steven had been forcefully taken away in the elevator from the hotel lobby.
    Michael also said
    Shortly after I had gone back outside to see Steven, Alex and Warren also came outside. I learned that they had sent Lou outside to take a cab because they wanted him to leave the conference hotel. They made sure Lou got in the cab and we went inside. The four of us agreed to talk about the situation and to try to put things in a better place.

    The four of us meet for a good hour, and we all were in agreement that it was not good for anyone for this sort of discord to exist.

    Warren talked about wanting to work together as partners, and that an apology on our part would be a first step in making that happen. Personally, I had a hard time wrapping my head around the concept that we owe him an apology and he does not owe us one, but the conversation was in general a positive one with neither of us wanting public confrontations.

    I talked with Alex later in the evening. As I said at the beginning of this post, I have known Alex for a long time and respect him very much. Alex said he was going to try to see that we were given passes for the conference because he thought that was the right thing to happen. This morning, while I was typing in this post, I received a text message from Alex letting me know that was the case. Thanks Alex, and thanks Warren for agreeing to Alex's request.

    Personally, I just want to put this whole upsetting episode behind me. And I want to make sure that those who are upset about the situation don't associate it with Alex or Warren because it was not the doing of either of them.
    Looks like at last some peace efforts are being made so for people on this and the other forum to talk about suing and going over the top about Stevens removal are just stirring and undermining these efforts now.

    Though would be funny to see someone attempt to sue in a British court over this, remember this happened in the UK and not in the USA were one can sue someone over a tea being too hot in macdonalds.

    What Lou did was wrong, he was obviously very angry but he was removed as well by his own people and afterwards they sat down with Michael.

    Let them sort this now and let Gambling911 doing the tabloid headlines, no need for it here

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post

    What Lou did was wrong, he was obviously very angry but he was removed as well by his own people and afterwards they sat down with Michael.
    Yes, but he wasn't removed in an insulting manner in front of hundreds of people!



    When Steven asked Lou if he really meant the threats that were being made, he confirmed that was the case and said we could publish it.
    Could you please publish them here Mike?
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    Betpartners is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by akhil_jks View Post
    Yes, but he wasn't removed in an insulting manner in front of hundreds of people!
    Would it make you feel better then if he was?

    Quote Originally Posted by akhil_jks View Post

    Could you please publish them here Mike?
    And so it continues, lets just keep publishing all this stuff and forget any peace efforts,

    makes me wonder, it really does

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    Would it make you feel better then if he was?
    NO. But escorting a kid in this manner is just not justified! Feel yourself in such a situation.....
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