bookmaker.com - you won't belive that!

[grem]

Does bookmaker think this few thousands dollars was worth it?

[xChrisx]

Does bookmaker think this few thousands dollars was worth it?

Apparently in their minds it is worth it. I wonder how many potential affiliates have turned down their program due to the bad press in the affiliate world.

They obviously have no clue what internet presence is. Rather than be present on all sites big and small, I guess they choose only to be on larger sites. It's like they would rather give one guy 10K to put them up on a billboard where passer byes might see them once on their way to work, as opposed to paying 100 people $100 to advertise their brand on every street corner where people will see you 10 times on their way to work. Repetition is one of the keys when it comes to branding. When people see you everywhere their going to remember you a hell of a lot more than just seeing you once or twice.

Furthermore, it's rather funny that all this money that they claim they invest in marketing yet they neglect some of the very key principles in marketing 101. First impressions are one of the most important elements, what Bookmaker does is gives all initial sign-ups a cold call by one of their high pressure sales representatives. I'm sure this turns quite a few potential long term customers away at initial contact. You can't go to a single sports betting related forum on the internet where there aren't numerous complaints about this, while this in turn turns away even more potential sign-ups who refuse to join them based off the complaints of others.

They really do have a failed business model when it comes to branding and marketing. This progression really started shortly after they change their terms retroactively. All in all, it's fair to say that their marketing efforts and public relations with affiliates is quite counter productive.

They also claim the highest conversions in the industry, any affiliate in their program can tell you this just isn't true. This is why so many struggle and/or are unable to achieve their predatory quota.

[balagan9]

another email from bookmaker. if he thinks i'll get his banner back before he'll pay me - HE'S DREAMING!

Please don’t offend my level of common sense and I won’t insult yours by saying, that if you keep us up and can get us 3-4 players here, 3-4 players there, don’t you think that you would have hit 10 players a long time again? Do the math mate.

Really, it’s almost frustrating for me to have to go over this with small thinking affiliates. 10 should not be your goal….10 should be your first step to 100 active players !!!! And yes, it can be done. Proof is with the small affiliates that are now big affiliates after having weathered the storm and worked at being successful.

Why should they get all the business and not you? 10 should be the first door you kick down not the mountain to climb.

Use the new landing pages. Use the self updating banners. Promote our poker and blackjack tourneys, etc and you’ll see 10 as a drop in the bucket.

Do you have a website? If so, may I see it? Maybe I can come up with some ideas for you.

___________________
Cheers,
Play casino at http://iphonecasinos.mobi/

[justbookies]

another email from bookmaker. if he thinks i'll get his banner back before he'll pay me - HE'S DREAMING!

Yes, I absolutely hate the smug tone of the messages that come out of Bookmaker nowadays, like the one you have posted. Their patronising advice is simply insulting. They ignore the fact they changed the rules and stopped paying people (theft). Sure to get to 100 active players a week you first have to get 10 active players a week, but they deliberately ignore that to get to 10 active players a week you first need to get to 3 active players a week. By setting the bar so high (10 active a week rather than say 5 active a month) they are excluding all affiliates who are starting out. How the hell do you get an oak tree without starting with an acorn? As Bookmaker ignore those salient facts it becomes communicating with smug morons. They are trying to defend the indefensible and that is why they argue as if 10 active players a week is a starting point, rather than a significant milestone in itself. These people are being deliberately obstructive, as dishonest people always are.

[xChrisx]

This ordeal is truly sad. Especially for Bookmaker. They were first runners with very few competitors to be the next Pinnacle Sports for U.S players after Pinnacle decided to leave the U.S market following the UIGEA.

Yet Bookmaker takes a business approach that counter acts achieving the accomplishment, as they have proven up to this point a failure to do so.

[splinterfree]

And this week we've decide to ban Bookmaker/Betcris too. Same reason as everyone else, non-payment.

The situation was really exasperated by the **** who runs their affiliate department. He got me so aggravated and pissed off, that i've wasted a bunch of time and money to get a press release published (coming out later today) to blackmark this program for good. Talk about short sightedness in building your affiliate business model... Maybe this will make it to the 101 of affiliate marketing of things NOT to do.

Read full story below:
Jackpot Finder Blacklists Bookmaker and BetCRIS for Non-Payment

[balagan9]

this is def the MOST stupid aff program i've EVER seen !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[splinterfree]

apparently the same approach is applied to a bunch of players - http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-ta...kmaker-p3.html

a bunch of people say its a good book and that they pay. it seems like thats the main criteria for judging bookmaker, the fact that they pay. others say its bad odds, unreasonable withdrawal fees, and shady business practices. go figure. but to tie up the story, the show gets ignited by Anthony Torres' appearance on page 2 what a class act...

[grem]

if the program paid you for the 3-4 players you get then maybe you can reinvest that money into your affiliate site to grow it to 10.

I would use this as a counter argument

[nsawins]

Bookmaker and Diamond keep 10% for processing costs now. What I don't understand is they still keep 10% even when you are in the negative and had a PLUS week but still in the negative. For example, if you are down $900 and have a positive $400 week, than they still keep 10% of your 25% commission payout($400 x .25 = $100 x .10 = $90 commission after 10% processing costs). However, what are they processing when they are not sending REAL MONEY because the affiliate is still down $810(negative $900 - positive $90 = negative $810). It's crazy. It's not like they need to chop off 10% because they are cutting a check, doing a bank wire or sending a money transfer via WU. They are simply just calculating numbers but are taking 10% off for "processing costs" every week even if you are still in the negative and not getting paid. Intertops does the same crap. Ridiculous.

[jarvi]

Another reason to keep away from this group. They roll out a new poker client and decide that the best way to pay for it is to stop paying the affiliates. I'm sure it will be a big year for the affiliate program, as they say in the email, as more people drop them...

Dear Affiliates,

Two days ago BetDSI released a major upgrade to our poker client. The new poker client is an improved selling point to reaffirm BetDSI as the premier one-stop-shop for your traffic.

In light of recent events and the costs involved in offering this new poker client, we will no longer be offering poker commissions for our affiliates. Poker has been at most a small fraction of our profit compared to sports, horses and casino, and this change will have little to no effect on most of you.

Offering poker has always been an add-on with hopes of keeping our sports players who also enjoy a bit of poker at BetDSI.com, therefore we have added the sportsbook directly into the poker clients, and will be offering our poker players notifications of upcoming games, halftimes, etc.

Many things are changing in the industry right now, and we expect more to come, however we all feel that this year will be one of the biggest years the affiliate program has seen (with or without professional football).

If you have a marketing channel that focuses on poker specifically, please contact us and we will see if we can assist you via other means. Please email affiliates@2BetDSI.com with your Affiliate Account number and your website (or a brief description of your marketing plan) and we will do our best to work with you to develop a strong and profitable partnership.

Sincerely,

BetDSI Affiliates

[justbookies]

There have been some affiliates defending Bookmaker. This latest crime of their's - no longer paying affiliates on poker should be the final nail in their coffin even for you guys who have defended them. Now even you must see this shower for what they truly are - crooks. You need to stop promoting these muppets before they drop you all totally. It is a small move from this despicable step to cancelling the affiliate program altogether. PS: They still owe me $5000 that I am never going to see.

[Buddy M]

I was with BetCRIS since 2005, then Bookmaker and DSI and I also had a few other accounts they took over, Las Palmas and Betmaker (I believe they took over those two). When the terms changed I got out. I think total I had about 20 sign ups within the group, but never did well as far as depositors. I knew I couldnt live up to the terms so I got out FAST!

To be fair they are very clear on the T&C's, thats whey they must be read.

Stopping poker commissions this week does suck for those who would qualify. Do they at least count the active poker players as part of the total you need or is the total you need all but the poker, lol.

I guess we are all at the programs mercy. Thats why when I join a program, I find out who the aff manager is. I have some great ones and their were times when I might not have been paid that they went to bat for me.

[TravG]

I'm glad I stubmled onto this thread. I have an affiliate account there but haven't promoted them. I was actually going to start just to have a few good books to offer my visitors but sorry Bookmaker I don't work for free! I mean really, thats why we do this right - to make money. I can see the point in recommending them if they are good to players but sorry I won't waste my time. There are other books that are good to players and affiliates.

[justbookies]

To be fair they are very clear on the T&C's, thats whey they must be read.

They changed their terms and conditions retrospectively and refused to pay me $5k and others in this thread. There is nothing fair about Bookmaker.

[TheGooner]

You need to stop promoting these muppets before they drop you all totally.

You look after your sites ... and I'll look after my sites and the recommendations to players that are on it.

I will agree that the 10 active player quota is a harsh way to weed out small affiliates - and I will continue to push for a change in my communications with their affiliate program ... so this thread is good to highlight the situation for all affiliates.

However, Bookmaker.com are very reliable site, good to players and provide one of the safest places for US players to play right now. That's pretty much a rock solid reason to have them listed. Player welfare matters.

If affiliates can generate traffic and reach the affiliate threshold - then bookmaker.com is a good destination for affiliates with reasonable conversions and longevity of players.

[Buddy M]

They changed their terms and conditions retrospectively and refused to pay me $5k and others in this thread. There is nothing fair about Bookmaker.

Believe me, I am not promoting Bookmaker, although and I'm not sure if she is still there, but I liked Christine who was one of the aff managers. I just saying that in this business and others as well we have to be on the defensive, it's almost like "at your own risk". We need to go back now and then and reread the terms, check out that bulldog/watchdog site that is up on all of the changing T&C's.

I'd be pissed too if that happened to me and it does bite, I feel for you, I got burned once in 2006 (not bookmaker), I had to learn the hard way too. When I got burned I kept contacting the aff manager and finnaly we worked out a deal. I got half of what I was owed, it sucked, but the terms changed, I didnt catch it and I felt that half was better then nothing. Maybe you can work with them. I had a sportsbook aff program even wave the negative for me once and it was thousands and thousands. Sometimes they will and sometimes they wont. Good Luck to you, I hope you work something out.

[Betpartners]

I cannot work with Bookmaker on an affiliate level, their terms are simply not to my liking, I don't like the attitude of the AM from what I have read and their philosophy of disregarding the smaller affiliates I find arrogant and insulting, this is not simply about quotas, I don't like quotas, but in the main I tolerate them and do not get too hung up about them, this is really about bookmakers.com attitude, general poor terms and treatment of the smaller affiliates, however the following quote from Thegooner I agree with entirely.

You look after your sites ... and I'll look after my sites and the recommendations to players that are on it.

Going down the road of preaching to fellow affiliates who they should promote and who they should not is a very slippery slope and should be avoided IMO.

[justbookies]

I agree that you can work out a problem with almost all programs. I have worked out problems with many programs. But that is with fair and reasonable firms, fortunately the vast majority. Bookmaker is not a firm to work anything out with. I tried, with diplomacy, and the emails in response were just abusive. You have seen their style of communication in this thread. It is unique in its contempt for certain individual affiliates. I have sent maybe over a thousand registrations to other sites in their space since I fell out with Bookmaker that might otherwise have gone to them. If I had worked something out with them now they would be shaving me on those players. I refer to the lates bombshell - the lost poker revenues - and what will follow? Are they testing the water to cancel your sportsbook players too? You can see how they are constantly attacking the affiliate model. They are getting ever more desperate and irrational in their actions towards affiliates as they feel the pressure. I also fully appreciate and understand that some big affiliates are totally committed to Bookmaker. I would be too in that position. I respect your comments and your position. You have hundreds (maybe thousands?) of active players with them so you have to keep promoting Bookmaker just to ensure you dont lose out on all the hard work you have done for them over many years. If Bookmaker spotted a massive dip in your activity - or certainly if you removed them totally from your sites - Bookmaker might use it as a tool to undermine your relationship. It is a Catch 22. I feel more for any affiliate in that position than I do for my losing a small sum that I gave up on a long time ago when they forced me to walk away from them. I am glad the way my history with them panned out. I realise why you can't walk away from them but personally I feel it is essential that the devious actions of Bookmaker continue to be highlighted to protect anyone else starting to promote them. In addition, I think we must attack crooked behaviour by any operator in order to help prevent any despicable precedents from becoming contagious. Dont hold those two points against me. I am very much on your side, not arguing but discussing. For newcomers or those not overly exposed to Bookmaker, there are other options, even in the shrinking US market.

[eaton2003]

Sorry to see Bookmaker.com make this decission. BetOnline will be adding poker to their site in the coming months. Hunting around a suitable solution which will work for us