Is CAP dead?

[eaton2003]

Everytime I visit CAP I notice very few new posts and much less people online than I did a year ago. Are they officially winding down?

GPWA activity has picked up in the last year so I wonder if this is a natural shift in the industry.

[Dominique]

Just looked and just this morning there are 38 new posts at CAP...

CAP is still regrouping after the big mess, but it's actually winding up again, not down.

From what I hear there will be a new version coming out soon, and most all policies are fundamentally changed.

CAP got called out and the reputation was severely damaged, but the bones are good and with an all new approach it has been growing steadily as of late.

[Renee]

As one of the most regular posters of the old CAP, I have to say that I am thoroughly disappointed with the amount of people over there now. I remember back when there were 4-5 pages of new posts every day.. Now I only check it every couple of days and there are usually 1, sometimes 2 pages of new posts.
When I used to visit the forums I was guaranteed to find different stuff across them, but now it seems that most threads posted there are posted on all the forums, so it makes sense for me to reply somewhere that I can insert something about our program if it's relevant.

FYI - you can blame me for the posting term update for guest affiliate managers. It used to say that if you only posted to spam your program you would be banned.
Now it says you can't promote your program at all. They changed it because I just happened to answer a question from an affiliate by telling him about our program and when I was told I broke the rule, I argued that I don't post just to spam my program, which is entirely true, so I don't see how that rule applies to my post.

Sorry!

I think this is something that could be compromised. By us guest affiliate managers posting relevant info in threads it adds to the value of CAP and allows the members (new and old) to gain knowledge from experienced and longtime affiliate managers and a wide range of points of view.
We don't get anything out of it. So what is the motivation for us to post the relevant info there when it doesn't add any value for us? I think if this was changed slightly, like reinforcing the "spam" rule that was there before and allow the guest affiliate managers to post about their program ONLY if it answers the question of someone (as I did), and only if they are adding to other conversations too, it might convince more affiliate managers to get over and post there, encouraging affiliates who come across CAP to join and post rather than looking for another forum that the affiliate managers ARE posting at.

Actually one thing I did notice over the last couple of days was a post about signatures... So the listed programs get charged a fee to be listed and also pay RevShare?

I also noticed that the post about only accepting a flat fee to be a listed program has been removed (which was $1250USD per month).

I'll be interested to see the growth moving forward as you commented on Dom. Not many companies can come back from something like what happened.

[eaton2003]

Renee,

I have to agree with you about the measures put in place to protect spamming of guest affiliate manager programs. Yesterday a particular affiliate brought up bet365 and wanted a member of bet365 to answer for which I did. This post remained and then he sent a response which I posted a response back with positive things about our program and reasoning behind a certain term. As a result this post was removed as it was thought to be spam.

CAP need to be careful how they tread as there is a clear difference between blatant spamming (which I disagree on) and responding to a post protecting your brand, or mentioning a press worthy news article.

[GFPC]

I think eventually they will increase again. I check there everyday and i read the posts.. ot as busy but still useful for me.

One of things i noticed was there are 2 websites that seem to be scrapping their content to either inflate PR or something of the other.

I did send them email on this, but never heard back for over a week. Not sure if they were concerned with this or not.

Do copyscape, they are being hugely copied! Or something worse.

Steve

[Shaun O'neill]

Flat fee plus rev share come on thats crazy.

I remember when i joined CAP at my previous company i was asked if they could have rev share i was like WTF i have just paid you X amount of $$$ and now you wnat rev share.

But I agree old CAP was a great forum with a huge number of posts I have not been back for a while so i havce no idea how it is now.

Is PAP still running?

Shaun

As one of the most regular posters of the old CAP, I have to say that I am thoroughly disappointed with the amount of people over there now. I remember back when there were 4-5 pages of new posts every day.. Now I only check it every couple of days and there are usually 1, sometimes 2 pages of new posts.
When I used to visit the forums I was guaranteed to find different stuff across them, but now it seems that most threads posted there are posted on all the forums, so it makes sense for me to reply somewhere that I can insert something about our program if it's relevant.

FYI - you can blame me for the posting term update for guest affiliate managers. It used to say that if you only posted to spam your program you would be banned.
Now it says you can't promote your program at all. They changed it because I just happened to answer a question from an affiliate by telling him about our program and when I was told I broke the rule, I argued that I don't post just to spam my program, which is entirely true, so I don't see how that rule applies to my post.

Sorry!

I think this is something that could be compromised. By us guest affiliate managers posting relevant info in threads it adds to the value of CAP and allows the members (new and old) to gain knowledge from experienced and longtime affiliate managers and a wide range of points of view.
We don't get anything out of it. So what is the motivation for us to post the relevant info there when it doesn't add any value for us? I think if this was changed slightly, like reinforcing the "spam" rule that was there before and allow the guest affiliate managers to post about their program ONLY if it answers the question of someone (as I did), and only if they are adding to other conversations too, it might convince more affiliate managers to get over and post there, encouraging affiliates who come across CAP to join and post rather than looking for another forum that the affiliate managers ARE posting at.

Actually one thing I did notice over the last couple of days was a post about signatures... So the listed programs get charged a fee to be listed and also pay RevShare?

I also noticed that the post about only accepting a flat fee to be a listed program has been removed (which was $1250USD per month).

I'll be interested to see the growth moving forward as you commented on Dom. Not many companies can come back from something like what happened.

[ironman2000]

I have to agree with all that has been said about CAP here in the previous posts.

Their was a slump in activity a while back, but now there is an up-turn in activity. I still say that having CAP & GPWA is only a good thing for our industry and gives people and afiliate managers a choice.

Also,about telling people about your program/s in CAP when you are not an approved member is spamming. If someone has an enquiry about your program,get them to PM you so yo can talk to them outside of CAP. I have seen people posting from company members posing as interested parties and then way and behold,they represent the company and get their affiliate manager to reply.

Spamming is a very fine line that we balance on today and in recent years also been threatend to be banned from certain forums because of answering genuine questions etc

Have a great weekend to all and how many of you will be going to CAP London just out of interest?

Keith

[pompeyrayuk]

Not visited CAP since I took down my approval badge after they badgered me to advertise with them at silly amounts of money.

[Dominique]

Yes PAP is there and had a total makeover. Although I don't participate there since I do little poker and so I know no details.

Flat fee plus rev share come on thats crazy

I asked about that, and that's not the point. The point is that aff managers wonder just how many signups they get from CAP presence, and there is no way to prove it if everyone uses non-trackable links. From what I know all you need to do is use a link that can be tracked, so you can actually see if your posting there is doing you any good.

Keep in mind that I am just a volunteer mod and care for the affiliates, I don't know about what happens between aff programs and the biz side of CAP. I stayed there for affiliates and have no hand in any policies that don't directly affect the use of the board for affs. Never did and never will.

GFPC, I am confused by your post. Who is being copied? No one should be copied. Ever. Please let me know.

[GFPC]

GFPC, I am confused by your post. Who is being copied? No one should be copied. Ever. Please let me know.

There are two sites Scrapping CAP. I emailed CAP no one got back.
Easy to find in Google...

Steve

[Shaun O'neill]

Dom

I dont wantto shoot the messenger not my style but when i went live with CAP must have been 1.5yrs ago maybe longer i was asked if they could have rev share, it was never anything to do with the tracking link it wa sjust about making money, and at the time i am sure many gave it, then CAP was very a very differant beast to what is now, and i also have no interstest in CAP bashing that boring and be done.

Anyway I am happy with the GPWA.

Thanks

Shaun

Yes PAP is there and had a total makeover. Although I don't participate there since I do little poker and so I know no details.



I asked about that, and that's not the point. The point is that aff managers wonder just how many signups they get from CAP presence, and there is no way to prove it if everyone uses non-trackable links. From what I know all you need to do is use a link that can be tracked, so you can actually see if your posting there is doing you any good.

Keep in mind that I am just a volunteer mod and care for the affiliates, I don't know about what happens between aff programs and the biz side of CAP. I stayed there for affiliates and have no hand in any policies that don't directly affect the use of the board for affs. Never did and never will.

GFPC, I am confused by your post. Who is being copied? No one should be copied. Ever. Please let me know.

[MainStAffs]

We have always paid a flat fee at CAP and quite reasonable rates. Our term is coming to an end and we were approached to renew with flat fee and rev share.

Activity on CAP these days is no where near what it iused to be, for posts and affiliates aquired.

The signature removal post was mine. I thought it was a bit sneaky to do this they way they did – with no announcement to the paying programs! Anyway, the thread was moved from the General topics to the bottom of the board under “feedback” lol – http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...es.37954.html?

Jason

[MichaelCorfman]

Is PAP still running?

I do keep somewhat of an eye on the various affiliate forums, so I can answer this question. Yes, PAP is still running, although it has not been very active at all since Jeremy Enke left.

Over the past six months the PAP forum has had a total of about 4,000 posts, or about 22 posts per day. That compares with Jeremy's new PAL forum, which he started after he left PAP, that has had about 19,000 posts over the same period or around 105 posts per day. Going back a year ago before Jeremy started PAL the PAP website used to run about 100 posts per day, so pretty much all of the PAP members have migrated over to the PAL website.

The PAP website did undergo a complete facelift, but it has not had much effect on the number of visitors as far as I can tell.

In terms of CAP and the GPWA, if you look back a year ago there were about four posts on the CAP website for every post on the GPWA website. But the situation has changed a lot since then. For example, in the past month there were about five posts on the GPWA website for every post on the CAP website.

In terms of Dominique's observation that there seems to be some pick-up in postings at CAP, I agree that is true, but I think it is correct to view that as due to seasonal fluctuations moving from September to October. Four weeks ago CAP averaged 23 posts per day, and this past week the average was about 32 posts per day. So on the surface that looks like a healthy growth rate of about 40% over the past few weeks. But in the same timeframe the number of posts on the GPWA website grew from an average of 99 posts per day to 186 posts per day last week for growth over that time period of 88%.

Michael

[PokerNations]

After CAP management:

1. Went on a tear banning anyone who was associated wtih people they didn't like (i.e. anyone who was asking questions they didn't want asked) and

2. Started logging in as other members and making complimentary posts towards their brand as if that member had posted it themselves (while locking those members out of their accounts)


I decided there was zero chance in hell that I would ever support anything CAP related ever again.



They don't deserve a dime of anyones money with the way they do business, support the more ethical organizations instead and let our industry prosper with good people at the helm.

[Betpartners]

I hope CAP is not dead

I never use the site but think affiliates need as many resources as possible.

Is CAP viable under the current owners? i dont know

Maybe new owners are required, i just think that a prosperous CAP that affiliates can trust again would be a good thing

[Dominique]

After CAP management:

1. Went on a tear banning anyone who was associated wtih people they didn't like (i.e. anyone who was asking questions they didn't want asked) and

2. Started logging in as other members and making complimentary posts towards their brand as if that member had posted it themselves (while locking those members out of their accounts)

You're talking about what happened at PAP. I don't know too much about it except what I have read around the web since I don't use PAP.

This didn't happen at CAP, but some crazy bannings happened there too before admin changed. None of that happens now.

One of the conditions under which I stayed at CAP (again, I am not associated with PAP) was that any future bannings needed to be voted on by a group of mods and admin, so it can never happen again that some individual bans arbitrarily.

[PokerNations]

You're talking about what happened at PAP. I don't know too much about it except what I have read around the web since I don't use PAP.

This didn't happen at CAP, but some crazy bannings happened there too before admin changed. None of that happens now.

One of the conditions under which I stayed at CAP (again, I am not associated with PAP) was that any future bannings needed to be voted on by a group of mods and admin, so it can never happen again that some individual bans arbitrarily.

That's like saying what happened at Cardspike shouldn't be taken into consideration because it's different than CAP.

To me, they're all under the umbrella of the same shady 3 characters who caused so much havoc in the industry. PAP was run by the same folks who were involved with CAP, Cardspike, etc. I see no difference there.

[gregdpowell]

Here's some food for thought: All forums using vBulletin platforms, all times are PM

PAL 8:48EST 10/08/2009
Currently Active Users: 295 (79 members and 216 guests)

CAL 8:48EST 10/08/2009
Currently Active Users: 33 (7 members and 26 guests)

PAP 8:49EST 10/08/2009
Currently Active Users: 79 (21 members and 58 guests)

CAP 8:51EST 10/08/2009
Currently Active Users: 103 (44 members and 59 guests)

AGD 8:52EST 10/08/2009
Currently Active Users: 138 (13 members and 125 guests)

WickedFire
Currently Active Users: 1,173 (128 members and 1,045 guests)


So we've all got some room to grow lol. Some forums can boost their numbers by changing the amount of time a user is 'logged in' to the site. These forums are all useful and contain some awesome information. The trick is searching for relevant content and interacting with members (and managers) who can help you earn more money.

Thanks Michael for keeping the post counts and also for providing such a quality place to discuss our issues together!

[matted]

So.... I haven't been following the CAP stuff that closely - I try to focus on my business and not the drama. And I made a decision years ago to only participate in one place as I just spend too much time on forums and not enough working on other things...

OK - so I have a question... I do not mean this to be inflammatory, but recognize it is a touchy subject...

Who owns CAP now? And how have the owner(s) changed their business practices which got them in hot water to start with?

[Renee]

I have to agree with all that has been said about CAP here in the previous posts.

Their was a slump in activity a while back, but now there is an up-turn in activity. I still say that having CAP & GPWA is only a good thing for our industry and gives people and afiliate managers a choice.

Also,about telling people about your program/s in CAP when you are not an approved member is spamming. If someone has an enquiry about your program,get them to PM you so yo can talk to them outside of CAP. I have seen people posting from company members posing as interested parties and then way and behold,they represent the company and get their affiliate manager to reply.

Spamming is a very fine line that we balance on today and in recent years also been threatend to be banned from certain forums because of answering genuine questions etc

Have a great weekend to all and how many of you will be going to CAP London just out of interest?

Keith

Sorry Keith, I have to disagree with you here..

Before the certification changed to listings, if someone asked a question about a particular program that was NOT certified at CAP, the program rep was "notified" of the thread then answered the question, and they were not banned and the posts were not removed.

What happens when someone doesn't get an answer to their question?
They go somewhere else to find it.

So by not allowing the affiliate manager to reply to a question about their program is likely going to make that affiliate go somewhere else to try to find the answer. I doubt that is good for business, especially if that is a brand new member at the forum and they joined in particular to ask that question.

I don't understand the issue with the program rep posting a reply if someone is asking a direct question about their particular affiliate program. As you know, if these types of threads go unanswered when there is a program rep available, everyone jumps to the conclusions that the rep is unresponsive and gives them and the program a bad reputation.
Then you get people who look through threads without actually joining and when they see a bunch of unanswered threads they will likely go elsewhere too because they might think the member base there is not large enough to have valuable info for them.

As the human race we are lazy, and therefore want everything easily now. So it makes sense for people to go somewhere that has everything, than to be split into a few places that have only some parts.

BTW I'm sure the management at CAP would be thrilled to know that guest affiliate managers are making CAP members talk to them outside CAP as you suggested... I would prefer to be able to talk to the members in public and have my PM privileges revoked than the way it is now.