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  1. #41
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
    MichaelCorfman is offline GPWA Executive Director
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    Quote Originally Posted by stgeorge View Post
    There is a thread speculating what GAP should be about but it offered no insights whatsoever.

    Anyone know what the "divergent views" held by the group at the meeting were?
    Well, as I understand it, the operators are pretty united about the fact that they never want to be taken advantage of in the future the way they felt they were taken advantage of by CAP.

    So, they wondered if they should hold their own conferences to insure that would not happen, but did not reach an agreement to do that.

    And they wondered if they should run their own message board for affiliates and stop paying sponsorship fees to others to support running other forums where affiliates participate, but did not reach an agreement to do that.

    Basically, some felt they needed to seize control of the marketplace to serve their interest. And others felt the free marketplace, with CAP now being a shadow of its former self, would serve their interests well.

    The only thing that is completely clear to me is that as a group they now have the willpower to rail against the level of abuse they suffered with CAP. And I heard that quite clearly expressed to me by one operator as a demonstration that a free marketplace did work to correct abuses.

    From my personal perspective, this is all about transparency. Transparency is necessary for free markets to do their job, and operators will eventually band together to help create transparency among themselves around common concerns when they are pushed too far.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

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  3. #42
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    Thanks for that information Michael.

    I can imagine that senario happening and will just wait and see how it unfolds. I'm not surprised that major agreements could not be made in such a short time by such a diverse group anyway.

  4. #43
    wagerprofits is offline Public Member
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    In short a lot was talked about about at the meeting, it was confirmed that if the operators really wanted to form an new association that it could be done, GAP may still go ahead it depends what happens in the next week or so.

    As i said in my previous post as it stands I will not be supporting GAP in its current state this may change in the future.

    Shaun

  5. #44
    joeyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman View Post
    Well, as I understand it, the operators are pretty united about the fact that they never want to be taken advantage of in the future the way they felt they were taken advantage of by CAP.

    So, they wondered if they should hold their own conferences to insure that would not happen, but did not reach an agreement to do that.
    Taken advantage of by Cap?

    1) Cap charged them differing fees.
    1) Aff programmes cut private deals aside what's advertised.

    2) Cap ran a competing poker room etc.
    2) Portals run by casino firms has been known. Comment spam to promote them has been known.

    Cap played the big boys at their own game and won for a good while. Tough. The real beef was the playing of their own membership, not the wholesome 65 crew.

    More worrisome:
    # You've also got Microgaming doing their own payout audits via Ecogra, and 888 are "independently" accredited as safe and fair by Ecogra, with 888 on the board, and so on.

    # Mafiiosa style you may never leave affiliate terms.

    # Big boys like William Hill reducing cpa payouts to nil on high traffic days of their choice. Charming I must say.

    # Need I mention Grand Prive?

    # Should I even mention the $5.3million Microgaming Poker Scandal while the wholesome 65 are unhappy bunnies?

    Fact:
    I am 100% sure, there are many affs with more knowledge than I posess of the shenanigans pulled by affiliate firms and their paymasters over the years.

    Opinion:
    I think they're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill on the back of Cap. From that high ground they will eventually shaft again, the Cap members that really did get the shaft by Cap. They(gap) will not clean up anything, or add any ethics you Michael, Affguard and many many others combined don't squeeze out of them.

    Utopia:
    Shut Gap down, (the name is a liberty by the way, imo) , and call a meeting where affs, aff programmes, their paymasters, the software suppliers, and the licensors sit down and do the ethics thing together.

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  7. #45
    wagerprofits is offline Public Member
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    Okay guys this is the latest from GAP.

    In my mind this could be a very good path for the industry to take but i do have concerns which i think can be cleared up.

    Thanks

    Shaun

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.gamblingaffiliateprograms...April_2009.pdf

  8. #46
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    This Ecogra thing is becoming quite tiresome.

    Ecogra have Grand Prive sealed as a fair and responsible operator. Grand Prive shut the aff programme and told webmasters to take a hike.

    I guess Ecogra would trake another 8k from the Grand Prive affiliate arm quite happily.

    It won't make them a trustworthy operator though.

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  10. #47
    wagerprofits is offline Public Member
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    Joeyl

    I have to agree that your point is valid.

    The only things that I know about Grand Prive is the info that has been posted on the forums and see like affiliates got nailed big time.

    I have just had a quick look on the Grand Prive site and I no longer see the Ecogra seal, i have no idea if they would issue the seal again, as I said i just informing you guys of what could be happening, I have concerns on how independent this group could be but i think the idea does have legs.

    I posted the info as I really think you guys need to know what is happening.

    Shaun

    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    This Ecogra thing is becoming quite tiresome.

    Ecogra have Grand Prive sealed as a fair and responsible operator. Grand Prive shut the aff programme and told webmasters to take a hike.

    I guess Ecogra would trake another 8k from the Grand Prive affiliate arm quite happily.

    It won't make them a trustworthy operator though.

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  12. #48
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    Red face

    Ecogra have some of the Grand Prive stable certified. I don't know which. I'm not especially bothered which ones either.

    Ecogra have the Interwetten sportsbook certified, but not ther casino and poker room.

    $5.3 million worth of players funds are tied up in Tusk. Lost under Ecogra's watchful eye. Play where you see the seal!

    Without the 4 quango's, or independant directors, Galston, Catania etc, Ecogra would'nt be able to claim independence.

    Your efforts to remain as transparent and open as possible Shaun have not gone unnoticed old boy.

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  14. #49
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    i have just given a tiny opinion on the GAP forum and i will summise here.

    Yes i think paying for certification is right

    No i dont think eCogra should do it

    No i do not think any existing organisation should be involved

    Yes i think it needs a completely new organisation

    And no there will never be a consensus on how this gets done

    Once we all relaise that we can move on and get back to gunslinging in the wild west of the gambling industry
    Arthritis Care

    To find true bravery and courage all one need do is look in to the eyes of a sick child - A humble parent

  15. #50
    wagerprofits is offline Public Member
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    BP as posted in GAP I have some major concerns with ecogra but this is a start in the right direction and I woudl be happy to be part of any discussions moving forward.

    Shaun


    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    i have just given a tiny opinion on the GAP forum and i will summise here.

    Yes i think paying for certification is right

    No i dont think eCogra should do it

    No i do not think any existing organisation should be involved

    Yes i think it needs a completely new organisation

    And no there will never be a consensus on how this gets done

    Once we all relaise that we can move on and get back to gunslinging in the wild west of the gambling industry

  16. #51
    Chalkie's Avatar
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    I will give up being an affiliate and start a certification and policing group!

    Any one want to join chalkies group it will be called CRAP

    Chalkie Respects Affiliates and Programs!



    Any takers?
    Paul

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  18. #52
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    Count me in.....lol

    I hope you plan on certifying portals too....I mean Geez....almost all of my sites qualify as crap already so i figure there a shoe-in....LOL

    Geez think of all the marketing posibilities....

    Visit my portal where we are CRAP certified...we'll give you the crap....LOL

    Rick
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  20. #53
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    Visit my portal where we are CRAP certified...we'll give you the crap....LOL
    LMAO!

    greek39

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  22. #54
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    Oh man, I love it Paul! Well done. And now...

    <rant>

    We do not need another group selling "certifications". I read Bryan's newsletter from CM tonight, he says it right. "We don't need to fill the void that CAP's implosion created" I don't think there is a void. I know that there are affiliates right here and now that are being jammed up the xxx from "certified programs" from cap, and not just cardspike. And there are some programs here that are "sponsors" that are jamming up the affiliate's xxx. And laughing all the way to the bank!

    If you are getting banged, drop them. We are all adults and I really don't feel I need some 3rd party telling me who is good and who is bad. Hells Fire, I can figure out what is working for me and what is not. If I have to battle for my due wages, I will do it on my own and in my own way, once I get it, do your really think I am foolish enough to continue with a program that makes me battle for my due funds? HA

    We have tons of threads here to check on a program, if there is an issue that does not get resolved... guess what? I don't promote them.

    We have AGD, all an affiliate needs to do is visit and look for the program. Predatory? I don't promote them.

    We have PAL and CAL, tons more affiliate input, if they don't resolve issues.... I don't promote them.

    I don't need a group of entrapenuers that "think" there is a "need" to tell full grown competent adults that are moxie enough to do all the things we do, to hold our hands and say this program is good, this one is bad. But as P.T. Barnum said.... "_______" fill in the blanks, you know what I mean!

    This thread has gone on forever. And is loaded with opinions and speculation. I think I am done looking at the latest on something that has no bearing on how I will function in the future. I am sure there is something productive I can be doing on my sites to increase revenues.

    RIP "C", we didn't need you after all, and still don't. </rant>

    P.S. If you are looking for me, I'll be in the other threads and forums here learning and helping when possible.
    --
    "People who are unable to motivate themselves must be content with mediocrity." ~Andrew Carnegie~

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  24. #55
    wagerprofits is offline Public Member
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    Chalkie you love the word crap, goes hand in hand with your football team...

    Shaun

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkie View Post
    I will give up being an affiliate and start a certification and policing group!

    Any one want to join chalkies group it will be called CRAP

    Chalkie Respects Affiliates and Programs!



    Any takers?

  25. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    Count me in.....lol

    I hope you plan on certifying portals too....I mean Geez....almost all of my sites qualify as crap already so i figure there a shoe-in....LOL

    Geez think of all the marketing posibilities....

    Visit my portal where we are CRAP certified...we'll give you the crap....LOL

    Rick
    Universal4


    Pretty funny Chalkie!

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