Programs NOT affiliated with EM

**Betpartners** · 18 February 2009, 2:55 pm

No No Shaun you get me wrong, probably my fault the way i worded it, i am trying to tread a fine line here.

What i was trying to say is that based on the history of the posts concerning CAP anyone that takes a view contrary to the popular view will be castigated as you were.

So while it was wrong that your morals were called in to question i was not at all suprised, i expected it the minute you said this kind of thread is not on, i agreed with you but i knew if i said it i would be castigated also.

So i apologise if it seemed i was condoning those comments, i was not, just saying they were going to come the minute you agve your view.

I go with your 1st option

1. Move on and continue with your business and making money

Everyone now knows the story and everyone knows CAP wont admit nothing so continuing these threads now is just starting to make the industry look as if it is stuck in some sort of rut.

We all know whats happened and can make our choices as we see fit.

And finally one of the reasons i ahve grown to love this forum is that you are free to debate about CAP or for the matter GPWA, i made my views clear from day one and it was allowed,

I have no doubts that would not be allowed on CAP, in fact i already know its not allowed.

Anyway may not seem like it Shaun but i support your view, i am probably crap at wording it right

**wagerprofits** · 18 February 2009, 4:00 pm

I really wished everybody would go with the first option, this has effected the industry and it will hurt us all, we will see the effects in Amsterdam next month, and the damage can not fixed.

Shaun

Originally Posted by Betpartners

No No Shaun you get me wrong, probably my fault the way i worded it, i am trying to tread a fine line here.

What i was trying to say is that based on the history of the posts concerning CAP anyone that takes a view contrary to the popular view will be castigated as you were.

So while it was wrong that your morals were called in to question i was not at all suprised, i expected it the minute you said this kind of thread is not on, i agreed with you but i knew if i said it i would be castigated also.

So i apologise if it seemed i was condoning those comments, i was not, just saying they were going to come the minute you agve your view.

I go with your 1st option

1. Move on and continue with your business and making money

Everyone now knows the story and everyone knows CAP wont admit nothing so continuing these threads now is just starting to make the industry look as if it is stuck in some sort of rut.

We all know whats happened and can make our choices as we see fit.

And finally one of the reasons i ahve grown to love this forum is that you are free to debate about CAP or for the matter GPWA, i made my views clear from day one and it was allowed,

I have no doubts that would not be allowed on CAP, in fact i already know its not allowed.

Anyway may not seem like it Shaun but i support your view, i am probably crap at wording it right

**NLP-GOD** · 18 February 2009, 9:59 pm

The thread was for programs to state they are not affiliated with EMG. I thought it would be a place to find programs willing to act openly with their partners instead of hiding stuff and playing trickery. This information would be good because we can cross reference it with sites like Affiliate Guard Dog and get a great snapshot of some of the nicer guys on the block to work with. Pretty valuable information since this whole industry is nothing without trust. This is the kind of thread you'd expect to find on the GPWA website - not something that should be thrown out. Why should we be cast into the role of investigator instead of just being told the truth by our partners when it's that simple?

Explain why we shouldn't have a handy place to find programs that didn't try to trick us if that's how we feel about it? While one AM makes the claim that certain affiliates won't let this die the other one suggests reminding ourselves about this each time we enter future relationships by asking them if they were involved with EMG or not. This is totally backwards when programs could just let us know now on the record and we actually could move into the future and leave this behind us. No offense, but step up to the plate and make a formal statement about your own program since you've stooped to the level of posting in a thread you claim shouldn't exist - you'll save a thousand affiliates from having to ask you the same question.

The thread was supposed to be "positive" in nature. It was simply for affiliate programs which would like to help us out a bit by going on record and saying hey "we didn't play that game"

**Jinnia** · 19 February 2009, 2:42 am

Many affiliates ARE moving on, that you can believe!! But it
isn't being on the same path as some of you like to walk.

No more turning the other cheek, kissing butt, kiss and make
up, and all the other tiring sayings same as.

There are new affiliates starting out every day, they need/deserve
to know ALL the information regarding the online casinos, affiliate
programs, affiliate boards, so they can make a better judgment of
who or what they want to associate themselves with.

This is "old news", a "witch hunt", is bunch of crap!

**Betpartners** · 19 February 2009, 3:29 am

I tell you what having read my own posts on this again i can see that i may be guilty of what i accuse others of without actually using specific words, so i will clarify.

I do apologise if i have misunderstood anyones intentions and i do not mean to minimise the efforts of those that are doing things for the better of the industry.

But the fact is that no AM's have come on to this thread to state their position and i doubt any will, i am almost certain none will.

And the reason for that is that they just dont want to get involved in this anymore.

There is nothing new now on this, i am sure when there is J Todd will let us know, but to just keep going over and over and over the same things now is tiring, sorry that is the feedback i am getting.

I saw J Todds perspective video last night, a great video btw and he stated that CAP are no longer going to respond to any of this at all, to them its now finsihed, to AM's it is finished and more and more affiliates it is finsidhed.

Now before you bite my head off that does not mean it is pushed under the carpet, far from it, it means that everyone now knows the situation, all info to this is now widely available and not just on GPWA but on other sites like Casinomesieter, Affiliategauarddog and so on.

Now AM's can make their own mind up, so can affiliates and so on, but to be seen to just be starting new threads as another way of keeping this going will start to take on the look of a witch hunt.

People are not stupid, they know whats happened, they dont need constantly reminding.

If you are worried about new affiliates enetering the industry and that i can understand then maybe you can request that the CAP exposure threads be made stickys or whatever, but new threads on the subject, just dont think it is needed anymore.

I am happy to debate this till the cows come home, i am sure Shaun is, i am sure J Todd is and others whatever viewpoint they take, but lets keep it free of insults and barbed comments, no need for morals to be called into question, no need for other abuses, we can debate this in a civil manner.

**wagerprofits** · 19 February 2009, 6:38 am

I have just read all of my posts and I forgot to post the actual reason as to why I was posting so I will post it now:

Wager Profits has no NO connection with EM, the only connection that we have to Lou/Warren/PAP/CAP is that we currently carry the CAP and PAP seal and I also advertise Wager Profits or one of my merchants within CAP magazine.

Is that clear enough.

Shaun

Originally Posted by NLP-GOD

The thread was for programs to state they are not affiliated with EMG. I thought it would be a place to find programs willing to act openly with their partners instead of hiding stuff and playing trickery. This information would be good because we can cross reference it with sites like Affiliate Guard Dog and get a great snapshot of some of the nicer guys on the block to work with. Pretty valuable information since this whole industry is nothing without trust. This is the kind of thread you'd expect to find on the GPWA website - not something that should be thrown out. Why should we be cast into the role of investigator instead of just being told the truth by our partners when it's that simple?

Explain why we shouldn't have a handy place to find programs that didn't try to trick us if that's how we feel about it? While one AM makes the claim that certain affiliates won't let this die the other one suggests reminding ourselves about this each time we enter future relationships by asking them if they were involved with EMG or not. This is totally backwards when programs could just let us know now on the record and we actually could move into the future and leave this behind us. No offense, but step up to the plate and make a formal statement about your own program since you've stooped to the level of posting in a thread you claim shouldn't exist - you'll save a thousand affiliates from having to ask you the same question.

The thread was supposed to be "positive" in nature. It was simply for affiliate programs which would like to help us out a bit by going on record and saying hey "we didn't play that game"

**wagerprofits** · 19 February 2009, 6:45 am

Jinnia

I know many affiliates are moving and as you say a number of them are not on the same path, I have had 1/2 affiliates tell me that if we carry the CAP seal they will not work with us, which is sad as we also carry GPWA and of course Affiliate Guard Dog.

As you say new affiliates need to understand what has happened within the industry and I kind of think a quick search in Google will keep them busy reading for a fair few days.

As for you final point the CAP issues are old news, they feel they have dont nothing wrong as J Todd they will not make any further replies to these issues, so what do you want to do?????

Shaun

Originally Posted by Jinnia

Many affiliates ARE moving on, that you can believe!! But it
isn't being on the same path as some of you like to walk.

No more turning the other cheek, kissing butt, kiss and make
up, and all the other tiring sayings same as.

There are new affiliates starting out every day, they need/deserve
to know ALL the information regarding the online casinos, affiliate
programs, affiliate boards, so they can make a better judgment of
who or what they want to associate themselves with.

This is "old news", a "witch hunt", is bunch of crap!

**thepokerkeep** · 19 February 2009, 9:23 am

While I'm in complete agreement that CAP (Lou and Warren) should be rogued and avoided like the plague any attempt to boycott CAP certified programs is ridiculous and destined to fail.

If we removed all the CAP certified programs from our sites, they'd be barren and we'd be bankrupt. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

To those who are removing programs that bear the CAP seal; are you removing all programs? Or are you just targeting those that don't produce for you anyway? Are you prepared to remove all of these programs from your website?

Europartners
Canbet
Tower Affiliates
Rome Partners
Brightshare
BetUS
Betsafe
CWC Affiliates
888.com
Virgin
Ladbrokes
SportingBet
Mansion
This is Vegas
Gambling wages
Gnuf
Betway
PartnerLogic
AffClub
SlotoCash
Gambling Affiliation
32Red
WagerProfits
Bwin
Bet365
Playshare
Focal Click
Fortune Affiliates
Hollywood affiliates
Affiliate lounge
Everest
ReferBack
Income access
Intertops
UltimateBet
Absolute Poker
Paddy Power

Yep, they're all CAP certified! And there are more, many more!

For those of you who promote poker, add PokerStars, Full Tilt, Party and Doyle's Room to the list.

I respect what you're trying to accomplish but this approach is destined to fail.

Count me out but good luck to you all.

**wagerprofits** · 19 February 2009, 10:04 am

Happy Birthday.

Great post but I am not joiking an affiliate stated

"I just noticed you carry the CAP seal at Wager Profits, so I can not promote any of your brands. I do apologize!!"

This kind of thing is insaine, we also carry the GPWA and AGD of which the only one you do not pay for is AGD but still the affiliate said....

"Ethics and trust is an important issue in this industry, and many affiliates and players has lost that trust in CAP."

So by making a statement like that i would also say that this affilaite has no trust for GPWA and AGD....

What can you do????????????

Shaun

Originally Posted by thepokerkeep

While I'm in complete agreement that CAP (Lou and Warren) should be rogued and avoided like the plague any attempt to boycott CAP certified programs is ridiculous and destined to fail.

If we removed all the CAP certified programs from our sites, they'd be barren and we'd be bankrupt. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

To those who are removing programs that bear the CAP seal; are you removing all programs? Or are you just targeting those that don't produce for you anyway? Are you prepared to remove all of these programs from your website?

Europartners
Canbet
Tower Affiliates
Rome Partners
Brightshare
BetUS
Betsafe
CWC Affiliates
888.com
Virgin
Ladbrokes
SportingBet
Mansion
This is Vegas
Gambling wages
Gnuf
Betway
PartnerLogic
AffClub
SlotoCash
Gambling Affiliation
32Red
WagerProfits
Bwin
Bet365
Playshare
Focal Click
Fortune Affiliates
Hollywood affiliates
Affiliate lounge
Everest
ReferBack
Income access
Intertops
UltimateBet
Absolute Poker
Paddy Power

Yep, they're all CAP certified! And there are more, many more!

For those of you who promote poker, add PokerStars, Full Tilt, Party and Doyle's Room to the list.

I respect what you're trying to accomplish but this approach is destined to fail.

Count me out but good luck to you all.

**wagerprofits** · 19 February 2009, 10:07 am

In fact just reading the email again I am 99.9% sure that the person has posted on this thread....

If it was you tell me what you want to me to do???

Thanks

Shaun

**Webzcas** · 19 February 2009, 10:08 am

As you say new affiliates need to understand what has happened within the industry and I kind of think a quick search in Google will keep them busy reading for a fair few days.

Correct - http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourc...online+casinos

Results like mine will stay until such time

As for you final point the CAP issues are old news, they feel they have dont nothing wrong as J Todd they will not make any further replies to these issues, so what do you want to do?????

That Affiliate Media do actually respond to these issues and also admit that they have done wrong.

**wagerprofits** · 19 February 2009, 11:55 am

Remind me not to **** you off in the future..............

Shaun

Originally Posted by Webzcas

Correct - http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourc...online+casinos

Results like mine will stay until such time

That Affiliate Media do actually respond to these issues and also admit that they have done wrong.

**kwblue** · 19 February 2009, 11:57 am

Originally Posted by wagerprofits

Happy Birthday.

Great post but I am not joiking an affiliate stated

"I just noticed you carry the CAP seal at Wager Profits, so I can not promote any of your brands. I do apologize!!"

This kind of thing is insaine, we also carry the GPWA and AGD of which the only one you do not pay for is AGD but still the affiliate said....

"Ethics and trust is an important issue in this industry, and many affiliates and players has lost that trust in CAP."

So by making a statement like that i would also say that this affilaite has no trust for GPWA and AGD....

What can you do????????????

Shaun

Any affiliate who has a problem with CAP Certification - I understand completely.

But let's treat some certifications with the respect they deserve.. (of course I have to mention AGD).

Wagerprofits is AGD certified because they treat affiliates well, they pay affiliates on time, they have communication with their affiliates, and their terms are 100% affiliate-friendly.

Those who do not want to work with them because they are CAP Certified - I say, then, trust AGD's certification. It means something. And Wagerprofits is certified - I will stand behind them 100%.

That's my 2 1/2 cents

**thepokerkeep** · 19 February 2009, 11:58 am

Originally Posted by wagerprofits

Happy Birthday.

Great post but I am not joiking an affiliate stated

"I just noticed you carry the CAP seal at Wager Profits, so I can not promote any of your brands. I do apologize!!"

This kind of thing is insaine, we also carry the GPWA and AGD of which the only one you do not pay for is AGD but still the affiliate said....

"Ethics and trust is an important issue in this industry, and many affiliates and players has lost that trust in CAP."

So by making a statement like that i would also say that this affilaite has no trust for GPWA and AGD....

What can you do????????????

Shaun

Thanks for the B-day wishes Shaun.

If I were you, I'd quit responding in this thread. You're just fueling the fire.
There may be a few affiliates who stop promoting your products but the vast majority will continue with you, business as usual.
You've made it clear that your company is not associated with EM, let the rest of it go.

**Jinnia** · 19 February 2009, 12:35 pm

Yes pokerkeep, removing ALL, whether they are converting or not!!!

I'm waiting to hear the decision of one other, I do good with them, but if they say they decide to keep the seal, they'll be gone!!

It is not about the money, to me!!

Originally Posted by thepokerkeep

While I'm in complete agreement that CAP (Lou and Warren) should be rogued and avoided like the plague any attempt to boycott CAP certified programs is ridiculous and destined to fail.

If we removed all the CAP certified programs from our sites, they'd be barren and we'd be bankrupt. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

To those who are removing programs that bear the CAP seal; are you removing all programs? Or are you just targeting those that don't produce for you anyway? Are you prepared to remove all of these programs from your website?

Europartners
Canbet
Tower Affiliates
Rome Partners
Brightshare
BetUS
Betsafe
CWC Affiliates
888.com
Virgin
Ladbrokes
SportingBet
Mansion
This is Vegas
Gambling wages
Gnuf
Betway
PartnerLogic
AffClub
SlotoCash
Gambling Affiliation
32Red
WagerProfits
Bwin
Bet365
Playshare
Focal Click
Fortune Affiliates
Hollywood affiliates
Affiliate lounge
Everest
ReferBack
Income access
Intertops
UltimateBet
Absolute Poker
Paddy Power

Yep, they're all CAP certified! And there are more, many more!

For those of you who promote poker, add PokerStars, Full Tilt, Party and Doyle's Room to the list.

I respect what you're trying to accomplish but this approach is destined to fail.

Count me out but good luck to you all.

**Jinnia** · 19 February 2009, 12:38 pm

Originally Posted by wagerprofits

Jinnia

I know many affiliates are moving and as you say a number of them are not on the same path, I have had 1/2 affiliates tell me that if we carry the CAP seal they will not work with us, which is sad as we also carry GPWA and of course Affiliate Guard Dog.

As you say new affiliates need to understand what has happened within the industry and I kind of think a quick search in Google will keep them busy reading for a fair few days.

As for you final point the CAP issues are old news, they feel they have dont nothing wrong as J Todd they will not make any further replies to these issues, so what do you want to do?????

Shaun

Just keep doing as I and many others are doing!!

Making sure it don't get kicked under the rug as usual!

**Jinnia** · 19 February 2009, 12:50 pm

Originally Posted by wagerprofits

Happy Birthday.

Great post but I am not joiking an affiliate stated

"I just noticed you carry the CAP seal at Wager Profits, so I can not promote any of your brands. I do apologize!!"

This kind of thing is insaine, we also carry the GPWA and AGD of which the only one you do not pay for is AGD but still the affiliate said....

"Ethics and trust is an important issue in this industry, and many affiliates and players has lost that trust in CAP."

So by making a statement like that i would also say that this affilaite has no trust for GPWA and AGD....

What can you do????????????

Shaun

Yes, I do believe that is my statement in an email after Rachelle contacted me about the Pay No Rake promotion. The 'I apologize" was due to she spent time to have banners made for that promotion.

Don't say I have no trust in AGD, for I do!!

**GamTrak** · 19 February 2009, 12:57 pm

Originally Posted by Jinnia

Yes pokerkeep, removing ALL, whether they are converting or not!!!

I'm waiting to hear the decision of one other, I do good with them, but if they say they decide to keep the seal, they'll be gone!!

It is not about the money, to me!!

Web definitions for blackmail - exert pressure on someone through threats

Noun

1. blackmail - extortion of money by threats to divulge discrediting information
extortion - the felonious act of extorting money (as by threats of violence)

Verb

1. blackmail - exert pressure on someone through threats
blackjack, pressure

act upon, influence, work - have and exert influence or effect; "The artist's work influenced the young painter"; "She worked on her friends to support the political candidate"

2. blackmail - obtain through threats
crime, criminal offence, criminal offense, law-breaking, offense, offence - (criminal law) an act punishable by law; usually considered an evil act; "a long record of crimes"
extort - obtain through intimidation

source

**thepokerkeep** · 19 February 2009, 1:09 pm

Originally Posted by Jinnia

Yes pokerkeep, removing ALL, whether they are converting or not!!!

I'm waiting to hear the decision of one other, I do good with them, but if they say they decide to keep the seal, they'll be gone!!

It is not about the money, to me!!

Well Jinnia, that's great to hear. It's awesome that you're in a position to put your morals ahead of your profit margin.

I think you'll be very lonely though, in your attempt and I also think it will be fruitless. In the end, these programs will continue to follow the money and won't be swayed by your actions.

**offyourface** · 19 February 2009, 1:17 pm

Originally Posted by thepokerkeep

Count me out but good luck to you all.

Count me out too. I can appreciate where these people are coming from, but the reality is it's business and programs are going to pay for exposure over there at CAP. For me, I removed absolute slots because I know EM is financially affiliated with them and I can't trust EM to do the right thing in regards to paying affiiates as they have illustrated with the Cardspike issue. But thats where it ends for me, if I find out EM is deeply involved with any other programs I will do the same thing. I don't want to be that idiot who gets screwd by EM when I know they don't pay their bills.

Most of the programs that are cap certified are good people like Shaun. I don't think they deserve to feel the burn just because they advertise on what was once the most prominent affiliate forum online. I think in time they will put these marketing dollars to better use, especially in light of cap being a ghost town now. But I am not going to penalize these programs for running their business and trying to get affiliate traffic which is all I see a CAP certification being. Imho I think removing these programs is taking it a step too far and will only hurt your own business, these programs are not the ones who deserve to be burned at the stake.

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