The Affiliate Union

[giggles7p]

JMO,

One thing i want to make clear is this new site, union, affiliate representation, is NON PROFIT, everything that these members do is of there own free will, there own time, no money asked for and non expected. So all the hard questions being asked sound like a bunch of people who are "paying" to have themselves represented, which this is not. So taking such a hard stance of this group of people who are out of the good of there hearts, and for peace of mind that they are going to try and dive into this muddy side of our business to try and help in anyway they can, without all the pressure and demands that are being put upon them already without even being open yet. THey did not start this thread, someone else did, so they were not trying to recruit members yet, so give them a chance to solidify the program they are trying to start and thank them for at least trying to help our business and the effort they will be putting forward that not many others of us are willing to do!

[mojo]

Good stuff kaus. Well said and valid. And thanks for the compliment too.

I am one of the founding members of the AU. To be honest, the discussions here are a bit premature and we are still brainstorming and building. That's why we are unable to answer everything.

Will we be able to solve all the affilite worlds problems? Course not but we will die trying.

While I personally appreciate the poll here at the GPWA, it is difficult to vote whether one will join yet when there is so little to go on. Apologies for that but we really do have more work to do first. I will say that no one is forced to take any action or join nor is there meant to be pressure on affilates. Goodness knows affiliates have enough pressure.

My main point here is that affiliates need to be wary. We have no choice and we have learned the hard way that to survive in this business we have to be cautious, if not downright distrustful. I wouldn't expect affiliates to be any other way regarding the AU.

Finally, being outspoken myself (as some of you know LOL), I personally will not take offense to any concerns, good or bad. To me it's all good.

[ck8795]

I dont doubt its going to be hard and I applaud them for making an attempt, but regardless of whether its paid or not paid..they should have a plan of attack for getting programs to own up to mistakes. Without that, everything they have said negative about GPWA, AGD ect in thier efforts to help affiliates is meaningless.

That said, they were given permission to post what the AU was about. If they wanted to discuss their mission they should also be able to answer questions

If they cant answer questions, than a little bit of respect to those who asked the questions is due dont you think?

Why should someone who is asked how they plan to manage this be made to look like a fool?

That to me is absolutely absurd. To me it makes me think this is the same as everything else. People ask questions, others get mad and dish out a bit of hostility and it ends up being the same circle we're in now and a bunch of mud slinging.

How is that ever going to change anything?

I said it before even though I got stomped on for it. If you want this to work your going to need the majority of affiliates on board ESPECIALLY those who pull the most weight...and weight means revenue.

Im not knocking anyone at all and what people make but someone who makes the casino 1000/mth is not going to have as much say as the person who's earning them 10K or 50K. Those are the people who have the biggest pull and really play a major role in the casinos bottomline. And while 100 affiliates pull banners and ads, if those people continue to promote your going to have a very hard time getting the casino to live up to their end of the deal.

Also what BoyMitchell said is 100% true. There are going to be alot of people who will profit from this. If they dont want to follow what the AU says its going to be damn easy for them to make money when the competition in the serps is easier.

Look at CardSpike...even after everything the poker affiliates went through and the months it took for the rest of the affiliates to believe what was said was true...there were still affiliates who continued to push them right up until the day the were pulled from the network. For some money is money regardless of the cause and you cant change that. It doesnt make them right or wrong. Its thier business.

What do you plan to do then?

Whether you want to believe me is entirely up to you. I just think for this to work it has to be meticulously organized and you're going to need the big affiliates on your side.

AU people...dont know whos on it but Greek Dave and mayeb Gamtrack

Take these questions and use them to create something absolutely kick ass and rock solid.

[Chalkie]

Thank you Pat, very well put.

Kaus, i understand everything that you are saying and sympathise with it.

The AU does not open until the 1st and as such cannot answer most questions with complete accuracy.

The stronger the support the stronger the AU will be, however, the AU is not asking for support until the 1st and expects no one to commit in anyway.

The AU will no doubt fight all issues and will be a place for members to vote for actions as and when required.

It is to be expected that people will look at the AU before the doors are open and wonder what if, why, how and who?

What is important to the AU is that when the doors are opened answers will be forthcoming and actions will be taken. These actions can only be as strong as the support given, however, you can rest assured that all concerned at the AU will be representing the best interests of all member affiliates and will be fighting as hard as humanely possible to make an effect.

[mojo]

AU people...dont know whos on it but Greek Dave and mayeb Gamtrack

Not sure if you saw my post above kaus. I am one of the founders. I believe that the founding members have been mentioned somewhere, but a bit confusing at this point. They are:

AussieDave
Chalkie
Greek
GamTrak
Mojo

That said, they were given permission to post what the AU was about. If they wanted to discuss their mission they should also be able to answer questions

If they cant answer questions, than a little bit of respect to those who asked the questions is due dont you think?

There is going to be understandable passion but I certainly hope there is always respect for each other.

[Former Member 14]

Hi All,

If we're frank with each other, it's not the first time people have stood up to (edit: the) plate claiming they are going changed things for the betterment of gambling affiliates. Hence I can understand people's reservation about the Affiliate Union. It's to be expected.

I'm not a super affiliate far from it nor are the founding members. Truth is we're just like the majority of our peers.

Each month we battle through late payments and other adversities that are common place in our industry. Sometimes it's a real struggle. But like you we soldier on in the hope that things will get better.

Not in my wildest dreams did I ever expect Grand Prive` Group to close shop and steal affiliates rightful earnings. But it happened. Nor did I think programs would be so blatantly arrogant to retroactively change our contracts either. But that happen too.

You see my friends, I like my founders are sick to the back teeth of having no rights. We're tired of hearing from people & or entities who claim to have our best interests at heart, but do very little or absolutely nothing when the chips are down.

In my mind there comes a point where enough is enough. Where a line in the sand must be drawn. Otherwise (pardon the term) we may as well pull our pants down, bend over and cop it sweet!

I'm not in favour of being screwed over by affiliate programs, neither are my mates and founders of the AU. And this is why we have decided to form the Affiliate Union.

We don't profess to have all the answers or solutions.
But we're willing to give our time freely, without any personal benefit, and self fund the AU.

We do this in hope that we obtain the support of our peers and we can all take a united stand against the injustices that we are subjected to as gambling affiliates.



Cheers



AussieDave

[Webzcas]

Is this another site like the GPWA and the GIA, CAP, etc

[GamTrak]

Hi Dave,

No the AU will not be a forum similar to what the current organizations have.

Is this another site like the GPWA and the GIA, CAP, etc

[Webzcas]

Thanks.

One other question though. I notice you are one of the founding members. Looking at the holding page of the Affiliate Union, it states that they will not accept sponsorship.

That's all well and good, but as a founding member do you feel it is right and proper that you yourself promote the gambling wages properties?

I'm not trying to flame you. It is all well and good having a not for profit body representing our ( affiliates ) interests. But don't you think it is wrong that someone who is a founding member of this new union promotes places such as cool cat and other virtual casinos. Yet proudly states on their union website that they do not take sponsorship.

What I am getting at here is the fact that whilst the GPWA may not be ideal, at least it is upfront with regards the programs listed on here.

The thing is I am getting the message on the one hand that the Affiliate Union will be whiter than white, yet one of the founding members, you Robin quite openly promote one of the biggest and well known rogue groups in the industry.

[GamTrak]

Hi Dave,

I'm glad that you asked that question. I did agree to work with them before the AU was formed and have a current media buy with them. Once that deal is complete I am willing to remove any and all properties that need to be removed as soon as their contracts expire.

Thanks for your question. I'm an open book and will address any legit concerns. I would like to add that once we open I will answer any questions put to me as it relates to my ethics etc.

While I've never had a complaint regarding their brands I am aware of the reputation and will not justify working with them, but I will say that after working so hard for brands like Grand Prive and Vegas Affiliates only to have my commission stolen by one and impacted by the other I feel that they all have a chance to go bad and we just never know who to really trust.

I value all input and critisim and I'm not perfect and never set out to be, but I am honest and would never cheat or lie to anyone.

It's my desire to see that us affiliates don't have to 'compromise' our values and standards in order to make a living and therefore the reason that I'm striving to make a change in the industry along with my peer founders.

I hope that gives you a better idea of my position. I'm ready to get the rogues out and be proud of my proffession.

[Former Member 14]

don't you think it is wrong that someone who is a founding member of this new union promotes places such as cool cat and other virtual casinos. Yet proudly states on their union website that they do not take sponsorship.

I certainly don't and would not touch these clip joints (virtual casino group) with a barge pole.

In fact if you ask Bryan Bailey how he came across the original full list of casinos/sports books and domains owned by Virtual Casino Group, he's likely to tell you that it came from me. That was way back in 2002 I believe.



Cheers



Dave

[kwblue]

Whew. That was one-long-read.

I feel bloated now I was going to read from the second-to-last page and on forward, but someone mentioned negative stuff said about GPWA, AGD, and others.... so I read the whole thing.

I really didn't see much negative about AGD although I did see some about GPWA and APCW.


I think that saying GPWA and others (yes, that includes AGD) are 'without teeth' or haven't done enough for the industry is a bit on the ignorant side (sorry if that sounds harsh). If people want to take 1 or 2 instances out of hundreds or thousands, then I will say to them.... 99% or 99.9% success rate is better than the uptime on your servers. It's quite respectable - and nothing is perfect.



Will a union work? Maybe. I wouldn't disparage it. I would also expect the same courtesy be applied to both GPWA and AGD.

Dave has some great ideas here and the Union may help organizations like GPWA/APCW/GIA/AGD/CM (and any others I may have forgotten) in their fight to keep the industry clean. I, personally, hope there are some successes.

It will be interesting, on October 1st, to get some of the questions in the thread answered.

[Chalkie]

Whew. That was one-long-read.

I feel bloated now I was going to read from the second-to-last page and on forward, but someone mentioned negative stuff said about GPWA, AGD, and others.... so I read the whole thing.

I really didn't see much negative about AGD although I did see some about GPWA and APCW.


I think that saying GPWA and others (yes, that includes AGD) are 'without teeth' or haven't done enough for the industry is a bit on the ignorant side (sorry if that sounds harsh). If people want to take 1 or 2 instances out of hundreds or thousands, then I will say to them.... 99% or 99.9% success rate is better than the uptime on your servers. It's quite respectable - and nothing is perfect.



Will a union work? Maybe. I wouldn't disparage it. I would also expect the same courtesy be applied to both GPWA and AGD.

Dave has some great ideas here and the Union may help organizations like GPWA/APCW/GIA/AGD/CM (and any others I may have forgotten) in their fight to keep the industry clean. I, personally, hope there are some successes.

It will be interesting, on October 1st, to get some of the questions in the thread answered.

Bickering between or about each and every organisation will benefit no one and i agree that it is unfair to say that any of the organisations are without teeth. ( and if anyone thinks that the AU is without teeth, then fear not, i can post my spare set of false gnashers to prove them wrong )

All that i will say is that the AU believes it to be putting itself in a stronger position by refusing to accept payment from programs as an organisation.

The AU, hopes to be able to hold a stronger position by doing this and will not rule out working together with other organisations if the need arises.

I applaud all of the good done by all organisations, however, there is a feeling that more can be done, there is certainly a lot of people with issues regarding how effective an organisation can be when it is seen to be taking money from programs and operators. People have openly questioned the motives of all organisations recently regarding the subject of funding from programs, that is a fact! That said, i am not saying that people are correct to question the motives and would like to think that they are not!

This is why the AU is being formed and why the AU founders believe that the AU can make even further ground than has so far been made. We hope to gain support by being free from funding.

This does not mean that the AU founders are accusing any organisation of being unscrupulous, however, that we think that an organisation bereft of sponsorship will not have the same issues as one with.

[kwblue]

This does not mean that the AU founders are accusing any organisation of being unscrupulous, however, that we think that an organisation bereft of sponsorship will not have the same issues as one with.

ok.... I'll bite


What issues does AGD have because of sponsors?

How will this put AU in a better position than AGD (your words, not mine - I am not looking for a battle)?

[Chalkie]

ok.... I'll bite


What issues does AGD have because of sponsors?

How will this put AU in a better position than AGD (your words, not mine - I am not looking for a battle)?

EEEEEK No, i was not looking for you to bite and was not aiming anything at AGD either.

As you stated yourself there is very little in this thread if anything at all aimed at AGD and i for one am not about to change that!

I have been very diplomatic and also answered with my own personal feelings at the fore.

People have and will make their own minds up regarding all organisations and all i am saying is that the AU as decided to enter the fray without accepting funding. That is our choice as an organisation and hopefully it will help us gain support.

[kwblue]

I had to laugh at 'EEEK'

thanks for the responses.

[casinojack]

I had to laugh at 'EEEK'

thanks for the responses.

I loved that also!!

[giggles7p]

Andy,

I for one think that your company is "the best" at what you do. All the others are good, but your the best and have done the most as far as getting the word out about rogue programs and anything at all to do with bad or good T&C's and i stand behind you 100%. I believe that all other programs including the "new AU" are going to be or are a "backup" to your site. I think the AU will compliment what you do, and hopefully just add to the success of both. Thank you to "you", GPWA, GIA, Meister, and our little place, GAP...for stepping up and trying to make our industry "cleaner" safer and more affiliate friendly.

Thats all i intended on saying in this thread, and all i truely mean, and hope for.

Pat

[universal4]

Well said Andy....

....and also to the EEEEKer.....LOL

Rick
Universal4

[TheBoyMitchell]

Hello again. Sorry to be a pain.

All that i will say is that the AU believes it to be putting itself in a stronger position by refusing to accept payment from programs as an organisation.

As an organisation thats cool, but as individuals? Robyn has already said that she has a deal in place and when it is finished then she will have no more to do with them. She probably isnt the only one to be fair.

That doesnt sound like someone working for the benefit of the industry - that sounds like someone working for the benefit of the industry *as long as it doesnt affect them* - which was one of the points I made in the posts that you guys at the AU couldnt be arsed to read.

Whatever.

Hope it goes well.