The Affiliate Union

[pgaming]

I really didn't see much negative about AGD

Never will be at least not from my mouth. One of many IMO who has stayed true, real, determined in the face of absurdity. Never put your standards up for sale and stood tall.

greek39

[Former Member 14]

For those of you who wanted to fire me up you’ve succeed. But I’d hold off on the chuckles until you read the BIG BOMB SHELL that this post will drop on all of you.

There are things that need to be said. So everyone has a clear and concise understanding of the BIG picture.

Although the Robin incident was part of this decision, the major swinging factor is that I believe that I and my founding members have been mislead with fabrications, hidden agendas and untruths.

To say I’m not impressed in an understatement.


Also neither I nor Paul, Paula or Peter had any idea that Robin held a media buy with the Virtual Casino Group. If we did she would certainly have not been a founding member.

As it is now I have asked for her resignation. This was acted on some 10 mins after I had seen the post. However this is now a moot point. Because as of a few hours ago I have taken the decision to close the AU down before it commences.

In saying this, I for one am not going to stand by and watch as people rip into Paula, Peter, Paul and I. And take pot shots at us whilst dragging our names through the mud. Not only here but anywhere that anyone will listen to them.

For now the people mentioned in this post will be known as Mr X, Mr Y and Organisation-Z. I've decided for now to leave names out of this. I'm giving these people (names withheld) 24 hours to post and raise their hands.

(I have saved all correspondence)

On the 6'th of August 2009 I posted to the AGD on the topic "Time To Form an Affiliates Union!"
http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/for...ion-t1445.html

I even contacted Andy to gauge his views.

At the time of that post I did not own the domain affiliateunion.org (Mr X did. A well know identity in our industry).

I was hoping that Mr X would have posted to this thread. But that has not happened. Just like the email I sent him on Sunday last (6’th September 2009) asking a few straight questions. Oh I'm still waiting on that email to arrive.

Maybe 5 days or so later from posting to the thread at AGD (6'th of August 2009) (I can check my emails & PM's), I was contacted by Mr X and asked if I'd be interested in heading up an Affiliate Union.

I was told (words to the affect) that based on my passion for speaking out and standing up for what I believe in, that fact that I'd mentioned starting a Union, was why I had been
contacted.

I was also told that Mr X and Mr Y had tried to start this up a few years back but it was met with contension. But now they felt it was a good time to try again.

After a few exchanges I decided that this was a good cause. And thought if I didn't accept this role, who would...

Over the course of the next few days we spoke about general ideas for the AU. I was also told who should be a founding member. Of these choices Robin (GamTrak) was given to me.

I'll be honest, at the time, I wasn't exactly sure that Robin was suitable. But I was assure by Mr X that he's make sure that Robin didn't over step the mark. He claimed that Robin would listen to him if need be.

I was also told that any start expenses for the AU would be taken care of. (later to this we the AU decided not to accept any money. The founders would fund this out of their own pockets)

I raised the topic of promoting the AU.. I was told that a certain Organisation-Z would back us on getting the Affiliate Union out there. EG - Media coverage. Mr X and Mr Y had also discussed this previously.

The next day after receiving the founders list, I sent invites out to people to become founding members. These were:

GamTrak - Robin (was on the list)
Mojo - Paula (was on the list)
Chalkie - Paul (was on the list)

Greek39 - Peter (my choice)
Engineer - Dave (my choice)
Giggles - Pat (my choice)

Everyone excepted. However Engineer did mention that he was not sure if he could commit the time as he was already assisting Andy (AGD).

At that point I set-up a closed forum were we could discuss the AU and set about getting it started.

At that point I asked for the domain (affiliateunion.org) to transferred over into my name.

Out of that process we all realised that to run the AU affectively and to try an avoid conflicts of interest, we could not accept any type of funding; start up funds or otherwise.

On that basis we decided to be self funded.

We also decided that if we were to be seen as a separate entity we should not be associated or hold any alliance with any other group or association.

In addition we would not display banners, accept sponsorship money nor would we accept donation from any organisation; affiliate program or otherwise.

The AU Charter and operational protocols were set on the foundations of trying to assist our gambling affiliate peers. Nothing more, nothing less.

As we were gambling affiliates too, we certainly could not changed things ourselves. But with 500, 1000, 5000 affiliates we could. All with one voice that was to be the AU. We knew we had a chance of creating a fair playing field for everyone.

By this stage Engineer decided that he could not fulfil his founding member position. So he resigned. Giggles also realised that her time was sparse on account of her assisting on Steve's (bb1) forum.

So Pat also bowed out.

It was down to 5 of us. Well actually 4 because Greek39, ironically was on vacation in Greece.

Well from that point on we went about setting up the AU.

I happened to be on FaceBook last weekend 6'th September 2009. Mr Y who is directly connected to the industry organisation that I was told by Mr X was going to give the AU media coverage, was highlight in a post.

So I did what was polite and dropped him an email.

When I said that I wanted to thank him for his support and for offering to promote the AU...

I was rather taken back with his reply:.

I was told that although he was happy to do it, he would first have to run it past his boss. Because he's the one who signs my checks (or something that effect)...

The reason I was taken back with this reply was that I'd been led to believe by Mr X that Mr Y was running the show and although he’s got alliances with the GPWA and other entities the AU Media was a sealed deal.

However after a few more emails and the fact that also asked Mr Y why he'd not posted at the private founding members forum yet...And receiving a response that to me sounded as if he was not aware of a forum. Even though I had given Mr X the URL and details to supply to MrY.

All of this started me started me thinking I was being played for a sucker.

Now either Mr X had been BS’ing me. I don’t think Mr Y was BS me because he was up front and honest about having to clear the media representation via his boss.

I also became wary at that point because Mr Y told me he owned the affiliateunion.org. Where as I'd been told by the Mr X that he owned the domain.

At that point I really didn't know who I could trust.

So the only thing I could do was to send Mr X an email asking some straight forward questions.

That email was sent the 6'th of September 2009 at 7:11am AEST.
Reiterating I've yet to received a reply to my questions....

By Tuesday I believe I'd figured that I probably wasn't going to get a reply from Mr X, so to preserve the integrity of the forum, I locked Mr X out of the private AU founding members forum.

On or around that time the GPWA Affiliate Union thread had commenced.

As things have been moving quickly, I’d had interview requests and also having trying to give people here a factual insight into the AU.

A couple of days ago I was contacted Michael Corfman via PM.

In that he made direct comment to me owning the affiliateunion.org and how he thought it maybe a good idea if the AU joined the AffiliateForumAlliance.com

I responded with a polite thanks but no thanks. I explained the Michael the AU charter forbids it.

A day later I received a PM from Michael I asking if he could be nominated as a founding member. He did pre-empt this with an acknowledgement that if it created any politically waves within the AU he’d understand if his offer was rejected (not word for word).

We the founding members decided against this. Because we simply did not want to be tied into an alliances or be connected to the GPWA or any other organisation. The AU in it’s charter was to remain completely separate from these organisations and the people that head them.


What has troubled me from when I realised I and the AU maybe have been duped, is that Mr X, Mr Y and Organisation-Z are directly connected back to Casino City and also members of the AffiliateForumAlliance.com

As far as Robin promoting a casino or casinos owned by the Virtual Casino Group I and the other founding members had no idea that this was taking place.

But remember it wasn’t me who suggest that Robin should be a founding member of the AU either. That was Mr X. He suggest Robin.

Now to me given what I’ve now told everyone, it leaves a LOT of questions and unanswered. It certainly doesn’t look good for Mr X who (in not so many words) told me to appoint Robin as a founding member.

Now was this a set-up. I have wonder. Because the person who sprung the Robin/ Virtual Casino Group promoting connection is WebCaz. Who now as far as I’m aware works for CasinoMeister.com who incidentally is also a member of the AffiliateForumAlliance.com

Stranger than fiction PAL (Jeremy Enkes) who, you guessed it is also an AffiliateForumAllience.com member, contacted Paul Chalkie the day before requesting an interview. However on the same day that WebCaz posted the info about GamTrak and VCG, PAL contacted Paul and said he’ll wait till the AU opens to conduct the interview.

However from what I gathered Jeremy was very keen to have this interview done quickly.

Of course everyone can and will look at this differently…But the undertones of this do not look good from where I am sitting right now.

I suppose you’ll just have to make up your own conclusions.

The AU was something that could have worked.

However the stink in this industry is partners with corruptions, conflicts of interest and cliques who want a monopoly over not only gambling affiliates but the industry on a whole.

To the knockers and everyone who for whatever reason had to run the AU down...You'll all be here or someone crying about affiliate program A, B or C that's screwed you over.

When if you'd given the AU and allowed gambling affiliates the RIGHT to speak as one voice, maybe, just possibly the AU with our peers standing beside us could have made a positive change.

[mojo]

That certainly tells the whole story Dave. I agree it has become a fiasco and too many players involved.

However, we have started and now that it is down to 4 founders who completely believe in it, no matter HOW or WHY it started, this is something that shouldn't be of concern. It is water under the bridge.

I do not accept this:

Because as of a few hours ago I have taken the decision to close the AU down before it commences.

You cannot decide that. The AU will go on.

[pgaming]

Oh great it is back to the Cattle Farm lol. If so I should just retire and move back to the Village.

Sounds pretty complicated Dave when it should be a easy as counting to 3. Everyone is doing everyone pretty funny really but I think this maybe the norm.

Well if this is indeed the case let the Fat Guys take it and it will be last anyone here's from me. Everyone can keep on screwing everyone but I will be in the wings and follow suite.

greek39

[pgaming]

Hello again. Sorry to be a pain.




As an organisation thats cool, but as individuals? Robyn has already said that she has a deal in place and when it is finished then she will have no more to do with them. She probably isnt the only one to be fair.

That doesnt sound like someone working for the benefit of the industry - that sounds like someone working for the benefit of the industry *as long as it doesnt affect them* - which was one of the points I made in the posts that you guys at the AU couldnt be arsed to read.

Whatever.

Hope it goes well.

Judge? Nothing more than a cpays junket sure hope you took some data bases before you left lol.

Jerky

GPWA no worries I will show myself to the door.

greek39

[Former Member 14]

Oh and while I'm at... You can have my GPWA private membership back.

And this is a in comment...the person who used similar words in a different context, knows who they are...

My sense of ethical responsibility was the reason I accepted the position to head the Affiliate Union.

However it disturbs me knowing that your probably attempting to not only place a monopoly over gambling affiliates, but fencing these people in further, by creating a clique to enforce this empire and rule it as you see fit.

While I'm on a roll....

NappyBoy or whatever your name is...

If I was you I'd still be hanging my head in shame whilst running for the nearest hills...

You speak of integrity...But you worked for that CLIP JOINT CPAYS. And you have the arrogance and audacity to JUDGE Robin...

The probability of you having contributed to the fleecing of present GPWA webmasters is definitely high on the cards...

I'm surprised there is not a mob after you here...

Anyway you've obviously been smokin your socks or your jocks, because you speak about integrity like it's your friend...give me a break!


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However to all my GPWA friends (that's my true friends) I say thanks for the support and the good times. Sorry it had to end like this.

But you know me...if I think it stinks I say so.

You know where to find me if you want to chat.


Cheers



Dave

[pgaming]

However it disturbs me knowing that your probably attempting to not only place a monopoly over gambling affiliates, but fencing these people in further, by creating a clique to enforce this empire and rule it as you see fit.

IMO this would be correct reminds me of CAP LMAO!

Good bye my friends see you in the serps. I play dirty now!

greek39

[pgaming]

The probability of you fleecing present GPWA webmasters is definitely high on the cards...

I'm surprised there is not a mob after you here...

Anyway you've obviously been smokin your socks or your jocks, because you speak about integrity like it's your friend...give me a break!

Good one Dave LMAO But watch out he likely has your email, phone number, address, license, bank account, family photos, pets name, your underwear size, along with every other member here.

greek39

[Former Member 14]

I'm with you mate....

[Former Member 14]

Mr X you couldn't reply to my curly questions in the email I sent you on the 6'th September 2009...

But in less than 10 min of me posting THE FACTS behind the AU and the dirt...You manage fire up a GPWA PM and email and a request to contact you via MSN.

Instead of sending me emails and GPWA PM's, I'd suggest that you grow some balls and and come to this thread and post.

I have no intention of responding to your emails, PM's or discussing anything with you on MSN, period.

I don't have to I have enough damning prove to sink more than a few ships right now!

[mojo]

I took a nap and woke up to some sort of nightmare.

As a founding member of the AU, I do not nessacarily share the opinions of other founding members.

My goal was to try my best to aid in the current affiliate crisis we are all experiencing. I passionatly believe in the concept we have and hope to continue this goal. Of course in a completely different direction now. I am not concerned with politics. My concern is the affiliate crisis and some of us will carry on.

Well guys, this was the most exciting site that closed before it opened.

[giggles7p]

unfreaking believable!

I have to re-read this again, because i can not believe this!

See, here we go again, to much f**king crap in the business, either people are lieing, scamming, cheating, stealing, insulting, bickering, and thats just between affiliates and affiliate forums, i haven'et even talked about the affiliate programs! And i was hoping something good would come of this.....jokes on me.

Dave i understand what your saying, but why let someone run you out before you even started? You asked me not to commit because you thought i would give up to easily....well whos' giving up now????

Pat

[Anthony]

I am the Mr. X. Dave is correct I wanted to help him. Sorry it did not work out, I felt it would have. Sorry Dave got blasted, usually when someone wants to do something to help others and make no money from it. Have no motive but to do the right thing. The line forms to criticize and condemn. Its always the ones that actually do something that get raked over the coals and the ones that criticize and complain are the ones that fail to act. Dave does not deserve that. As long as I have know him he as aways done the right thing and is one for the first ones to stand up when something is wrong. That's what he does. Together we can accomplish much, the problem is affiliates as a whole can never seem to get on the same page, they always think there's an angle. I can tell you Dave was just trying to make a difference.

[MichaelCorfman]

Mojo, you are not alone. I also went to sleep and woke up to some sort of nightmare.

The first I heard of the AU is when I read about it in this thread. Obviously I was curious about it, so I did a whois lookup on the domain owner and saw it was AussieDave. On that basis I sent him the following pm on the 5th of September at 8:55pm EST:

Dave,

I note that you registered the domain name AffiliateUnion.org.

I try to be supportive of pretty much any affiliate endeavor when I think it is done for the good of the affiliate industry (witness the Affiliate Forum Alliance - www.AffiliateForumAlliance.com where everyone I know about is a member except CAP and PAP because of their ethically challenged leadership).

Anyway, the more the better from my perspective. So I'm curious, is there really a non-profit organization being formed, and if there is how can I support it? I try to make sure what I do with the GPWA and APCW is complementary to what others are doing to the greatest extent possible. That is, for example, why I support and provide publicity for the affiliate guard dog rating rather than try to duplicate that same effort.

Michael

Please note that I did not suggest that the Affiliate Union should join the Affiliate Forum Alliance as Dave suggested. In fact, I subsequently learned that the Affiliate Union did not intend to create a forum, so they would not even have satisfied the membership criteria to be part of the alliance.

And in terms of the back story APCW Anthony has stated he is Mr. X. I'm pretty sure Mr. Y is J.Todd (Integrity on the forums), and that Organization Z is the APCW. Now it is true that the APCW is owned by the same company that runs the GPWA, but the APCW is run on purpose with a reasonable degree of independence, and while I am usually involved in matters like this, and would have been involved eventually in this before any actual APCW promotion for the affiliate union, I'm not aware of everything that goes on before it rises to the level of promotion in the videos. If anyone has any question about how independently the APCW is run, the fact that I was never made aware of any of this, and found out through the post of AussieDave above, that should give you a clue just how independently.

I'll try to post more about this later, but at the moment there is not quite time for me to get to the GPWA booth at the BAC conference before it opens, I'm I'm supposed to man the booth this morning.

Michael

[MichaelCorfman]

I have a question to Aussie Dave.

In order to try to get the facts out here it would be helpful for me to be able to quote the contents of pm messages that were sent between us. I feel I am entitled to quote what I have sent to you only when they do not contain material from your responses to me, as I have done above in my first pm to you. Can you post here whether or not I have your permission to quote from the pm messages that you sent to me and from my replies to you as they relate to the matter at hand?

Also, I'd like to have your permission to publish the contents of any exchanges between J.Todd and yourself and Anthony and yourself. J.Todd has already indicated to me that he has no issue providing copies of what he has exchanged with you (he is in Budapest so I could ask him directly here). I have not been able to talk to Anthony yet since he is back in the states, but I assume he will also be willing to share any exchanges with you with your permission.

Michael

[TheBoyMitchell]

Oh dear.

The Boy Mitchell - The Man Who Bought Down The Internet.

Seriously - if you guys cant even deal with a fat, old affiliate like me asking a few pertitent questions because I was genuinely interested in what was going to happen without resorting to puerile knee jerk reactions then there was never going to be any way that you had the capability to put this together.

Whilst I applaud your passion, the posts from some of you guys really do prove just how petty the whole industry *can* be at times.

Aussie Dave - dont give up your ideas in a hissy fit. Regroup, plan it out get the right people in and do it again.

Greek - always a pleasure sparring with you. Casually lobbing in unfounded accusations proves that you arent up to the job of WitchFinder General - was this how you where going to get Rogues to stop? A few accusations and name calling?

You're brilliant you are. An inspiration

Oh and finally, for all the people who pm'd me saying 'Why are you making this a personal attack blah blah' - for every one of those I got, I got about 20 saying 'You are saying exactly what I am thinking but I am not going to post cos people will just flame me'. I wont be responding to pms like that as it seems to make sense to keep it all on here.

[GCG]

That doesnt sound like someone working for the benefit of the industry - that sounds like someone working for the benefit of the industry *as long as it doesnt affect them* - which was one of the points I made in the posts that you guys at the AU couldnt be arsed to read.

Whatever.

Hope it goes well.

Very well said, conflicting interests will always arise in a money driven industry, especially if you are fulltime affiliate.

Like I said the affiliate union can work but you need the power and integrity to succeed.......

And you want to work for free at / for AU? I doubt that this will work, if it is of the ground up and running I doubt that it won't be another CAP, GPWA or whatever is out there in the end........

And where should we post our questions..AU, GAP, here, AGD, CAP, GIA .......... it is already scattered for influence.

[Integrity]

Unreal.

OK, "Mr Y" here is in Budapest with limited internet access, on a different sleep schedule, at a major industry event, and supposed to be meeting with several people. I really don't have the ability to get into a deep discussion about all the accusations being thrown in here right now, but I will say is this:

I cannot be everywhere at once. With all the affiliate, player, and program issues going on in this industry my time is very stretched. I also have a lot of rich media to produce on my own every week, stay on top of the APCW Members area, and make an occasional post. I depend on people to help keep me up to date on what's going on in this vast arena. Those people are APCW Anthony, Michael, and Vin at Casino City. Between the three of them I can stay informed without having to be everywhere all the time.

I was informed of the AU by my co-workers and understood it was coming along, but had not read every post in every thread about it. A few days ago I was contacted by Dave to write a press release for the Affiliate Union. I clearly stated that I would be happy to do so, but to go through Michael to get clearance as a matter of respect and protocol. It was as simple as that... or so I thought. Dave did seem "put off" by my request, but I attributed this to him not having worked on this side of the industry.

A few more emails over the next few days seemed to have the issue worked out. In fact, I even specifically told Dave to have the AU Representative (who was supposed to be at this conference) find me here, and that I would be happy to sit down with them and give them a crash course in the politics of this side of the industry... which are far more complicated than most affiliates realize. You are all getting a small snapshot here.

My apologies to Dave and everyone working and/or interested in the Affiliate Union, but there is simply no great conspiracy here. There's a complicated situation that requires a great deal of effort, patience, and work to resolve and have work properly... and I hate to see it abandoned after such a short amount of time. Nothing great is built in a week... or two... or a month. This is a dynamic, international, unregulated industry with many agendas and personalities. And to be successful, you sometimes have to wear many hats and walk many lines.

I don't know why Dave had to wait until this particular day... the first day of the Budapest Conference... and this particular time... almost to the very moment of the show's opening... to make his statement. However, I do completely disagree that there was any sort of effort to sabotage this project, and find it an insulting accusation. As insulting as if someone suggested that Dave waited until just this particular day... at just this particular moment... because he knew we would all be tied up in Europe.

[Peter-Jan]

I am tired right now so I only skimmed the entire thread, but how come this is one big fight? What exactly has GPWA done to be called the new CAP?

[Chalkie]

I have just got online and walked in to this!

As a founder member of the AU i would like to make my feelings known on lots of things!

At the moment whilst still trying to digest this all i will say that i am not agreed to closing the AU and neither is at least one other founder.

I am so far very saddened by the way this thread has developed and will, i can assure you be trying my level best to find some common ground where we can move forward with the AU.