The Affiliate Union

[Chalkie]

I am unsure of the real reasons for Dave deciding - without any input from any other founding members - to close the AU

Robins involvement?

No, she was asked to resign instantly the issue become apparent. Now as the AU was not open, the fact that she would not be there on opening day does not put the AU into a compromised position. I am not judging Robin on a personal basis, there are plenty more who choose to accept money from the more darker of the programs. I do agree, however, that anyone looking to be part of an organisation similiar to the AU cannot play with the devil.

Because of the politics involved in other organisations? If there is that is!

I do not see this as a valid reason at all.

Dave has closed the AU before it even started because he was not happy with the way it was panning out as far as i can make out.

Other founding members are not happy to close the AU and will be discussing further our options in due course.

Feel free to quiz me on any aspect, i will answer as and when i can, as truthfully as i can. I will not, however, be drawn in to converstions on single identities, nor will i be disclosing any information that i have been privy to in any capacity that was meant for private viewing and not to be aired in public.

This is not me hiding things, however, any discusions had in private are private for a reason and i will not compromise my integrity.

[GamTrak]

Thanks Paul,

I guess this is what I get for taking a day off and not checking email yesterday.

I had NO idea that Dave wanted me to resign until 20 minutes ago, but I have no problem with not being a part of the AU as a founder.

Less stuff for me to do and worry about and if it does get off the ground then Good luck to my peers and I'm NOT mad at ya.

[GamTrak]

Ok, I just checked my email and there was one from Dave explaining his position, which is pefectly understandable and I'm cool with it.

Like I said before, I would have had no problem with resigning on the spot for the good of the AU and HOPE that the group gets the project off the ground.

Now that I've resigned everyone SHOULD be happy unless there is a hidden agenda. Right Neil? I'll go back to my part-time job now. hehe

[Holland87]

BRAVO!!

Thank you all, once again, for showing this newcomer what a ****** up little affiliate world I have involved myself in!! (sorry about the language but that is EXACTLY how I feel and I am not holding back)

I chose to support the AU because I knew who one of the founding members was and that was Mojo. I have never met Mojo in person, don't know her personally but I would follow her to the ends of the earth because I trust her and I believe in her. She is for the affiliates 100% and that's all I needed to know about her to want to support the AU.

I was following this thread (which ended up being a total waste of time) wishing 10/1/09 would hurry up and get here so we could all see what the AU was really about. Then we could start expressing true opinions about the union instead of guessing and talking **** and taking jabs at each other.

And now look, with no fault towards anyone but myself, I was pulled into, yet, another drama fest, which, like I said earlier, was a total waste of my time!!!!

I come to the GPWA for information, support and a few laughs but it seems I get sidetracked by all the drama that takes place here. I need to spend my time more wisely. It's time for me to move on and find my affiliate support elsewhere.

I really do hope that the AU gets off the ground. CYA!

[GamTrak]

I agree! I did not read all of the thread yet (I'm almost afraid to) but I will this weekend and I hope that they continue on and 'Make it work dammit'!

I chose to support the AU because I knew who one of the founding members was and that was Mojo. I have never met Mojo in person, don't know her personally but I would follow her to the ends of the earth because I trust her and I believe in her. She is for the affiliates 100% and that's all I needed to know about her to want to support the AU.

HOLY CRAP!

Currently Active Users: 1151 (29 members and 1122 guests)

That is the first time I've seen so many user here at one time.

[Integrity]

Holland, I am so sorry this industry always seems to have so much drama involved. I don't think things have to be so complex, and yet things seem to end up that way time after time.

I, too, believe it's short sighted to abandon the AU before there's been an honest and consistent effort to make it work. And on that note, Paul if you're in Budapest come find me at the conference.

[Chalkie]

Hi All,

After long and deep conversation with regards to developements in the last 12 hours, Paula and I have decided that the Affiliate Union is too important and that we will not give up. We had no part in the decision to close the AU before it was opened.

For many reasons, none less than the support that has been shown here.

AU will become GAU and we will be live and operational just as soon as we can!

We are open to questions, will not flame anyone that criticises and will only ever have affiliates well being as an aim.

As there is only 2 of us, we are open to any offers of assistance and will listen to advice from all directions.

We both hope that the support received thus far will still be with us and that anyone with any concerns will allow us the chance to put these concerns to rest.

If anyone would like to be considered as a founder with us then please email either one of us.

Thanks for your time and for reading this post.

***paul@rakebackpro.co.uk***

***paula@gamblingmojo.com***

[mojo]

After discussing with Paul at length we agreed that this venture is much to important to let it be lost.

Paul has posted and covered the basics above and I just want to add a thank you for the kind words here. Especially in the face of a real challage, it gives me more encouragment than you can know. My motivation is purely affiliates.

I look at this as a chance to improve with a fresh start with all the comments, concerns and opinions expressed here.

Right now the motto should be 'never give up'. LOL

[GamTrak]

That is good to know Paul! You & Paula will get it going just fine! A female needs to be at the helm anyway. hehe Just kidding. I hope you get the best founders available and kick some major A$$!

Hi All,

After long and deep conversation with regards to developements in the last 12 hours, Paula and I have decided that the Affiliate Union is too important and that we will not give up. We had no part in the decision to close the AU before it was opened.

For many reasons, none less than the support that has been shown here.

AU will become GAU and we will be live and operational just as soon as we can!

We are open to questions, will not flame anyone that criticises and will only ever have affiliates well being as an aim.

As there is only 2 of us, we are open to any offers of assistance and will listen to advice from all directions.

We both hope that the support received thus far will still be with us and that anyone with any concerns will allow us the chance to put these concerns to rest.

If anyone would like to be considered as a founder with us then please email either one of us.

Thanks for your time and for reading this post.

***paul@rakebackpro.co.uk***

***paula@gamblingmojo.com***

That's right mojo! Never give up and never take NO for an answer.

[Enke]

Stranger than fiction PAL (Jeremy Enkes) who, you guessed it is also an AffiliateForumAllience.com member, contacted Paul Chalkie the day before requesting an interview. However on the same day that WebCaz posted the info about GamTrak and VCG, PAL contacted Paul and said he’ll wait till the AU opens to conduct the interview.

However from what I gathered Jeremy was very keen to have this interview done quickly.

I have not read this entire thread, nor do I intend to follow it. But it was brought to my attention that I was mentioned here.

Please leave me out of any conspiracy theories. My understanding of the AU is nothing more than the concept of it. When I first heard about it, I genuinely thought it was a great idea and let Chalkie know via PM on PAL, and Robin via Facebook PM that I would be happy to support the project and leverage my brands to give exposure to it. Likewise I offered to interview someone from the AU on my weekly poker affiliate radio show since it was something new in the industry. I figured it made sense to wait until the site was live to do the interview so that the AU could get as much exposure as possible during its launch.

To be honest, aside from this I know very little about the project or the people involved.

Since 2005 I have been running a poker affiliate forum in some fashion along with managing my own affiliate business and other ventures. I do my best to stay out of the childish drama that continually goes on throughout the rest of this industry. I intend to do the same with this situation.

But I would like to go on record saying that aside from what I mentioned above, I have had no other discussions with anyone regarding the AU. Further to that please leave me out of any additional conversations or conspiracy theories. Thanks

Jeremy Enke
PokerAffiliateListings.com

[GamTrak]

Thanks for putting the facts out there Jeremy.

I've read the thread and all I'll say is that something is missing from the picture and the post made in this thread by a couple folks. Either way looks like the GAU will get off the ground and I'm very happy about it.

[gregdpowell]

Are you guys honestly kidding me? I guess that nothing has been accomplished in the past 12 months to bring some continuity to this niche industry. There aren't a limitless number of gambling affiliates out there. It doesn't take too long for things to spread and people to get talking.

Here are a few things I cant change that have a major impact on how we all behave as gambling affiliates.

1) Everyone is an opportunist. Why else would a new site need (or even want) 5+ founding members. In most other businesses these people are called 'investors' and they have 1 goal in mind - making money from a new opportunity.

2) There is never going to be total transparency. All we should care about is getting paid the exact amount we are owed in a timely fashion. So many people 'care' about everyone's business model to the point where they resent anything new that they dont understand (or think of themselves).

Here is the deal. These kind of forums were massively successful and limited in number (due to influence) because they 1) helped affiliates become better marketers 2) kept programs honest and weeded out the rouges.

CAP lost their top influence and PAW was sold and moved to PAP. GPWA has always had a core following, along with AGD and of course picked up new members over the past 12 months. No secret my home forum and community is PAL now. There are plenty of good people and great marketing advice on all these forums.

If you're worried about increasing your post count then stay at one place you feel most comfortable and get the most value and post away. Honestly there is valuable stuff being shared everywhere so read all you can. It's almost impossible to build a new, influential gambling affiliate forum so anyone who wants to try and succeeds gets a praise in my book. I guess the good thing here is that everyone in Budapest will now have a reason to get online and might increase your chance of receiving an email reply between drinks.

[lots0]

... All we should care about is getting paid the exact amount we are owed in a timely fashion.

Your not an affiliate are you? Are you just an AM that wants affs to shut up and make you money...

I'll never do business with Tower or any other program that has an attitude that ALL we affs should care about is getting paid...

If that was all that we as affs cared about there would be no need for cm, apcw, gpwa, agd or any other aff discussion/support groups.

****

A non-profit is the only way to go.
Too many peoples paychecks around here depend on aff forums and 2nd tear affiliate income to ever believe that an aff forum that promotes and advertises for the casinos affiliate programs could have the best interest of the community or individual affs in the forefront.

[casinojack]

As an affiliate manager, when this group is ready, I will help anyways I can to make it work.

Thought here is one good point: Transparency. Is a tricky term to define, and how to interpret. Example, the bank my money is not not transparent, but I feel safe putting my money there; because I see they do the right thing. I have no idea the safe combo, blah blah

I prefer the term to be number one:

Reachable

Think about it. Any program you like and trust...Are they reachable? Now think of the ones you do not..See my point?

good luck!

PS, I'm up 24x7 if you need to reach me

[gregdpowell]

Your not an affiliate are you? Are you just an AM that wants affs to shut up and make you money...

I've owned and operated several portals (poker/bingo) since 2002. I've also owned a skin and ran an affiliate program (before UIGEA). I think you know that information but I'll restate it here for everyone else browsing this.

What do you want from an affiliate program that you work with? What more can a program do (once you chose to work with them) besides pay you and your players what is owed to them, and also make sure you receive your payment as promised on time.

The nice thing about being an affiliate is being able to chose who you work with. Everyone decides based on various criteria but some of the more popular attributes would be: good creatives, good conversions, a competitive commission rate and the ability to retain a player.

- Note: Being able to retain a player is also important for those on CPA. When you're players lifetime value increases so will your ability to negotiate a higher rate.

[Webzcas]

I posted this earlier today on CasinoMeister as was unable to access the GPWA from my office:

For some reason I am unable since last night to access the GPWA Forums from my office, although I have seen the latest posts up to JTodd's comment in the thread via my iPhone.

I would like to clarify a couple of points raised by Aussie Dave made in the thread over on the GPWA:

1) I do not have a hidden agenda. I only found out a couple of days ago that Gamtrax promotes Virtual Casinos, as a result of Zebedy stating this over on the Sucks Board.

2) Whilst I believe the industry needs to come together to provide one voice for affiliates, I also strongly feel that if a union is created that it does not fragment the industry further.

In addition, whilst the principles of the union you were fronting seemed good on the surface and admirable, I felt further due diligence needed to be undertaken. Publically listing your founders one of which whom openly promotes a known rogue group did your proposed union a great disservice.

3) I note you comment that I work for Casinomeister.com - I am a moderator on the forum and do not get paid for my occasional input here. Yes Bryan is a friend of mine and yes I considered it an honour to be asked to help out. However there is no hidden agenda. Indeed, I post my opinions and my opinions only on here. Bryan was not aware of my intention to start this thread and I post representing my views and my views only.

So I want to put to bed here and now any conspiracy theories you may have regarding my involvement which led to your decision earlier on today to close the union before it opened for business.

4) I see Michael, Anthony and JTodd have now posted - I like other affiliates would like very much to see any and all correspondence you have had. Indeed Michael has asked if you can post it. I think this would be a wise thing to do for transparency sake.

Finally I would like to state that I believe what you were intending to achieve is admirable, but as you are now finding out, it is a lot harder than most envisage. The situation we ( Affiliates ) find ourselves in now is a direct result of the antics of the mismanagement of CAP by the owners of their parent company Affiliate Media.

Affiliates need to come back together as a sole cohesive unit so we are stronger again. But and this is extremely important, we also need the players on our side to achieve this. Creating a union headed up by affiliates who promote places like cool cat and other virtual clip joints, is not going to get any credibility or support from the player community. Whilst you were unaware of this, which I have no doubt it true - it proves that a lot of groundwork needs to be completed before an additional affiliate mouthpiece can be formed and work for the good of the industry as a whole.

[GamTrak]

I think those using me placing Cool Cat as the 'excuse' is on some bullshit Dave and David. The AU was not about me and as you have read I was chosen to be a founder and I was more than happy to bow out.

The non-profit idea is the way to go or NOTHING will change or be accomplished.

[GamTrak]

Now as far as a conspiracy, that is news to me because we all knew that Michael had NO idea what was going on.

Anthony NEVER met with us, never planned with us and never was to be a part of the AU. He only helped with the domain.

Same goes for JTodd. Why they are now being thrown under the fuckin bus is beyond me and not right!

Everything happens for a reason and hopefully it will all work out for us affililiates with the proper folks in charge.

Don't listen to the haters or nothing would ever get done.

[aksana]

Oh, guys, how you like to make so many troubles.
I like the idea of AU, I like GPWA, CM, AGD, GIA, APCW. And I will support all these communities.

Even CAP was very helpful for me, but there is a lot of noise, and it has a bad reputation now.

I like silent friendly forums.

We are all smart people, and we'll see how AU will work. Now the AU has not yet been launched, and I don't see any reasons to criticize the AU founders. I believe it will be a very useful union, and I hope I will be a member of this union.

But I would suggest to all GPWA members to stop working with Gambling Wages! Because it's a so sick theme.

[ck8795]

Your not an affiliate are you? Are you just an AM that wants affs to shut up and make you money...

I'll never do business with Tower or any other program that has an attitude that ALL we affs should care about is getting paid...

If that was all that we as affs cared about there would be no need for cm, apcw, gpwa, agd or any other aff discussion/support groups.

****

A non-profit is the only way to go.
Too many peoples paychecks around here depend on aff forums and 2nd tear affiliate income to ever believe that an aff forum that promotes and advertises for the casinos affiliate programs could have the best interest of the community or individual affs in the forefront.

Lotso you sureeeeeeee do like putting words into people' s mouths or making assumptions without asking questions and having something to back up those assumptions. I dont know you and to be quite honest I dont care to know you. You appear to be more of a drama queen than anything else

I will say this. When Greg says yes affiliates care about getting paid. You damn right we do and if you say thats not a #1 priority your bullshitting yourself.

You have links right?

You expect to be paid for the traffic you send to those casinos right?

You wouldnt commit yourself to writing content and the daily tasks of being a webmaster if it wasnt for the money. You'd be out there in the real world working a 9-5 job and barely getting by. Getting paid means getting paid and I would think that includes all the retroactive stuff thats happened lately.

In no way did Greg once say everyone should shut up, but in the last 24 hours I've seen more bitching on this forum than I have since the whole CAP nonsense. I mean honestly it takes 2 hours to catch up on one thread that should have been a positive one. I gave my opinion in this thread, I also sent Mo and Chalkie a PM with ideas to help them.

But 11 pages..come on thats sick.

Greg has been an affiliate, and is an affiliate manager and had you not jumped to conclusions you'd realize that he's pretty damn good at his job. The guy writes borderline essays on the forums to help affiliates better convert their traffic and to monitize their sites.

How many AM's do you know that do that?

Seriously. Very few are actually helping affiliates grow to their potential.

The entire staff at Tower Gaming are fantastic. I wish I could say the same for some of the other programs I work with.

My advice to you is lighten up and stop being so damn negative all the time. Not everyone is out to get someone else or harm someone else, or cover something up for someone.

Too many peoples paychecks around here depend on aff forums and 2nd tear affiliate income to ever believe that an aff forum that promotes and advertises for the casinos affiliate programs could have the best interest of the community or individual affs in the forefront.

I think thats BS to. It can be done but I also think its not the way some would like. Realize that this is a business just like yours. If I pull a program and rip them on the forums does that mean you will to.

we all know that GPWA and PAL do not "endorse" rooms based on merits the way CAP glorified they did. So why do you continue to put them in the same show as CAP.

There are 1000's of affiliates promoting rooms that you or I wouldnt touch with a 10ft pole, but that doesnt make them the scum of the earth.

I personally think its people like Michael, Jeremy, Anthony, JTodd, CM and the others who are considered to be industry leaders who can make the change you guys want. Except you cant get over the fact that they accept paid advertising. My god...

How about you start working for free. Drop all your links, base your site on merit and not who converts better and we'll talk k

I also think your screwing yourselves with the constant bickering. Why on earth would a program want to work with you to make things better when everytime they look on the forums its nothing but affiliates bitching and flaming each other, programs etc. Where do you think that gets you.

In the last 6 weeks that I've been visiting GPWA more frequently people are arguing. This isnt for everyone...just seems like some like to point fingers more so than others.

You'll be stronger if you can pull together as a group instead of distancing yourselves from each other and the affiliate programs.

Rant done promise