The Affiliate Union

[GFPC]

Peter is one of the sweetest people I have met and was very helpful too.I even witnessed him being nice to 888

I would have to agree... I had such a good time with Peter.. LOL Both Pia and I talk about him often.... We drove him to the AirPort and all had a good talk.

I consider him one my best affiliate friends!!!! Rock ON GREEK!!!

Plus i am suppose to visit his greek villiage one day!!! I need a place to stay LOL

[Chalkie]

Thanks Terry for some very valuable points, a well worded post that i have to say, if i was to ask someone to make a post that would be effective in allowing us to move forward, raise points that we need to cover etc then this would have been what i would have asked them to say.

We will not be making any announcements of our intentions, goals and constitution as yet because we have not got it set in stone. To do so would be stupid and counterproductive.

We are not setting a date of commencement, we will simply appear once we have the whole thing in order and ready.

We may come forward in the mean time and ask for views on things and we will most certainly be listening and taking notice of points made by all, both here and elsewhere.

1 question that has come up is will we accept donations? Would there be a membership fee?

Well, to be able to operate we might need people to put a lot of time in to cover things that need to be done, so would it be a reasonable thing to take a membership fee to pay for a member of staff? To cover out of pocket expenses?

I do not know the answer to this regarding how people would feel about a membership fee?

Any suggestions broaching this subject would be welcomed. Is this different enough to being sponsored by programs to make a difference? If the membership were the people who decided on the finances would it be acceptable?

Please do not take this as red that we are moving towards an idea of taking funding, just an idea that has been brought up by others so worth discussing.

The very fact that it would probably be not a large sum and that it would probably only be cents a month to each member could make a difference?

Taking money from operators will never be acepted!

Interested on anyones thoughts?

Until now, I have not taken part in this discussion for several reasons....

1. It was obvious that the announcement came too soon. Kind of like putting the cart before the horse. A union/organisation such as is being proposed here is a huge undertaking that will require major planning and tons of patience.

2. While Dave is a great asset to our industry, he does not possess the social skills necessary to head up the union.

3. I'm not convinced we need another group lobbying for our interests.

-----------------------------------------------------------

That said, now that Paul and Paula have taken on the leadership roles, I think there is potential for the AU/GAU to do some good.

The union will need to have a clear mandate/charter and a narrow focus. Spreading itself too thin will undoubtedly strain it's very limited resources beyond the breaking point.

Personally, I think it's impossible for the union to operate effectively as a non funded (or self funded), volunteer type of organisation. The demands on everyones time will simply be too heavy to sustain over the long haul.

If this group/union were to be organised with the single goal of dealing with retro-active changes to T&C's, it may work. But, to create a true union with a broad scope/mandate will require serious man hours and plenty of cash.

I suggest that Paula and Paul put their heads together and decide on a common vision/goal for this union before moving ahead. Answer the following questions (and many others), then bring your proposal back to the forums for open discussions.

What is the most important issue for the union to address?
How much time and money will we need to achieve our first objective?
Where will the money come from?
Who will do what?
What happens to the union if one of the founders drops out?
Who decides what issues the union should take on?
And in what order?
What forms of attack will the union use to achieve results?
How will the union communicate with it's members?
If the union is going to accept financial donations, who is going to be responsible for the money?
How will we know the funds are protected?
Who will decide what to spend the money on?

So many questions....

[casinobonusguy]

Oh i am "hanging" baby, you can count on it! LOL

Can't wait to meet you darling, i have heard wonderful things......wink, wink...loll

Pat

Greek/Peter
I made the mistake of telling Pat that I thought you were sweet and handsome ,now next year you will have a horny ole lady after you LOL

[casinobonusguy]

I would have to agree... I had such a good time with Peter.. LOL Both Pia and I talk about him often.... We drove him to the AirPort and all had a good talk.

I consider him one my best affiliate friends!!!! Rock ON GREEK!!!

Plus i am suppose to visit his greek villiage one day!!! I need a place to stay LOL

DERAILING THREAD I KNOW -PLEASE ONLY STEVE AND PAT READ THIS@!

Steve are you and Pia coming on the 29th?You will probably get to pick my brain then .by the way we don't want the bodog girls next year ,the 888 ladies will come instead .We also decided some affiliates and managers look pretty hot so we will have the men wear their underwear and serve the drinks hehehe.
(Pat -Bodog manager Andrew or Richard perfect match for you if it work out with greek lol)Sorry to rest of the affiliate managers but Andrew has to win the hottest aff manager on this planet,some serious eye candy there

Now back to the union .I wish everyone good luck and well wishes.

[casinojack]

DERAILING THREAD I KNOW -PLEASE ONLY STEVE AND PAT READ THIS@!

Steve are you and Pia coming on the 29th?You will probably get to pick my brain then .by the way we don't want the bodog girls next year ,the 888 ladies will come instead .We also decided some affiliates and managers look pretty hot so we will have the men wear their underwear and serve the drinks hehehe.
(Pat -Bodog manager Andrew or Richard perfect match for you if it work out with greek lol)Sorry to rest of the affiliate managers but Andrew has to win the hottest aff manager on this planet,some serious eye candy there

Now back to the union .I wish everyone good luck and well wishes.

Is it just me or is this the best post in the thread ?

[Chalkie]

Is it just me or is this the best post in the thread ?

Oh No, methinks Jack fancies Andrew too!

[giggles7p]

LMAOOOO!

Judy, Judy, Judy.....lol

Back off the hot men! lol......Now you done went and made Greek afraid to meet me....horney ole lady..lollllllllllllllll.....and what about you my darling?.....I think you are a little on the horney side yourself! HAHA....

Oh man, Judy if we ever get together, there maybe trouble for the men in the area?

[Nandakishore]

1 question that has come up is will we accept donations? Would there be a membership fee?

Well, to be able to operate we might need people to put a lot of time in to cover things that need to be done, so would it be a reasonable thing to take a membership fee to pay for a member of staff? To cover out of pocket expenses?

I do not know the answer to this regarding how people would feel about a membership fee?

Any suggestions broaching this subject would be welcomed.

I think you should start small and see how the whole thing develops. Then, if necessary, you can consult the members of the organization about a membership fee.

[arkyt]

I am not saying we have to agree about everything, what I am saying is that we need to respect each other. We come from all walks of life and all corners of the world, and we are never going to see the world through the same eyes.

As long as there are sites like CAP/GPWA which make a killing at all of our expenses; there are going to be sites like those forementioned who will do what ever they can to make sure detractors don't get off the ground.

As I had stated before, efforts like this have been attempted before and thanks to sites like those above were never given an honest chance. It went so far as site operators contacting programs and threatening them to not get involved...its sickening; yet the same BS continues here!

3. I'm not convinced we need another group lobbying for our interests.

Can you name one group which currently represents our collective interest?


There's absolutely no exaggerating years of history!

[Nandakishore]

Can you name one group which currently represents our collective interest?

Can you please elaborate a little, what "represents our collective interest?"

[arkyt]

Can you please elaborate a little, what "represents our collective interest?"

IMO, currently, nothing does...

If you were asking what I meant by the statement, then I would say

Represents; stands up for / exercises the rights of

Collective; each and every gambling affiliate

Interest; individual personal benefit

[Nandakishore]

IMO, currently, nothing does...

If you were asking what I meant by the statement, then I would say

Represents; stands up for / exercises the rights of

Collective; each and every gambling affiliate

Interest; individual personal benefit

I agree that nothing does what you are expecting, namely that one organization "stands up for" the "individual personal benefit" of "each and every gambling affiliate."

This can only work if the collective consists of a very limited number of individuals or affiliates coming from the same cultural and economical environment. In our case, where we have thousands of affiliates spread across the world, it cannot work, or it may work as effectively and efficiently as the United Nations Organization does.

[thepokerkeep]

Can you name one group which currently represents our collective interest?

AGD, APCW and GPWA.

What makes you think that AU/GAU will better represent our collective interest than the ones I mention above?

A union will still be run by affiliates, meaning that decisions will/could be made based on the financial interests of the parties running the union/making the decisions.

In order for an association to be truly independent and act in our collective interest, it would have to be manned by non affiliates.

[Integrity]

AGD, APCW and GPWA.

Thank you, PokerKeep. You saved me from using naughty words in this thread! LOL!

================================================== ===

...we have thousands of affiliates spread across the world, it cannot work...

And thank you, Nandakishore, for pointing out what should be obvious to people.

================================================== ===

If someone in here actually believes that any organization has the ability to represent every single affiliate's beliefs and needs 100% of the time, well, you're fooling yourself. All an organization can do is operate as honestly and openly as possible, trying their very best to stand up for what's right, and following the collective conscious of the majority of affiliates. There will almost never be complete agreement on what's best. And even if there were, people would soon disagree on how to obtain it, how to keep it, and what to do with it once we had it.

This industry is over a decade old, and organizations like GPWA, AGD, and the APCW are here not because we can accomplish miracles or pacify every webmaster want or need. We're here because we tirelessly and honestly pursue what we feel is best for the webmasters, and we remain true to those beliefs no matter the redicule, jealously, and animosity of others with separate agendas who believe they have somehow stumbled upon a better way to do things.

It's those that lurk in these forums... reading every post and waiting for the right moment to lash out... it's those people who are the real danger for affiliates. They do not get involved with the process of making the industry better. They offer nothing creative to the discussions. They have no solutions other than those which revolve around themselves. Rather, they bide their time in the background and wonder how best to make bad situations worse. I guess they get some sort of sick pleasure by trying to make us fight with one another, since they so obviously feel above us and beyond us.

[mojo]

As I had stated before, efforts like this have been attempted before and thanks to sites like those above were never given an honest chance. It went so far as site operators contacting programs and threatening them to not get involved...its sickening; yet the same BS continues here!

There's absolutely no exaggerating years of history!

I do remember some new ventures being thwarted by heavy hitters. That is true.

However, we have moved on. I don't feel that the current venues such as GPWA, AGD, APCW etc, would ever stoop to that. That is not a thought.

It is a new day in the affiliate world.

It's those that lurk in these forums... reading every post and waiting for the right moment to lash out... it's those people who are the real danger for affiliates. They do not get involved with the process of making the industry better. They offer nothing creative to the discussions. They have no solutions other than those which revolve around themselves. Rather, they bide their time in the background and wonder how best to make bad situations worse. I guess they get some sort of sick pleasure by trying to make us fight with one another, since they so obviously feel above us and beyond us.

I don't know about all of that JTodd. Unless I am misreading, there is a certain hopelessness with affiliates due to the current state of affairs.

This industry is over a decade old, and organizations like GPWA, AGD, and the APCW are here not because we can accomplish miracles or pacify every webmaster want or need. We're here because we tirelessly and honestly pursue what we feel is best for the webmasters, and we remain true to those beliefs no matter the redicule, jealously, and animosity of others with separate agendas who believe they have somehow stumbled upon a better way to do things.

And you have helped for sure. Thank you. I don't think anyone would expect miricles. I, for one, am grateful for everything that you do. AGD has been an absolute godsend for affiliates. Each one of us tries to add a little something to the cause.

That is why I think that the power of affiliates is not completely tapped into yet. This is what I would like to see. That is the goal. Also to work together with the rest of those who are on the front line. Together. If you look around at the current crisis, we need additional troops.

[pgaming]

I can only speak for myself Todd at this point and am very hesitant in saying too much. But lets shed some light on the valid point you made.

“If someone in here actually believes that any organization has the ability to represent every single affiliate's beliefs and needs 100% of the time, well, you're fooling yourself.”

I doubt the AU/GAU could represent every single affiliate I understand the dynamics. So do the GIA, GPWA, APCW, AGD, and CM etc …almost impossible to satisfy every member. But tell me who would not like to see Grand Prive crash considering the obvious? Slamming their doors without notice and running off with the loot. I dumped Grand Prive years ago but feel very passionate about rendering some justice. Why? Because it is wrong plus has the potential of setting dangerous presidents through out our Industry.

And yes-persuasive action was taken by affiliates, GPWA, APCW, CM and likely other entities I am not aware of. Grand Prive was Black Listed/ Rouged. Good course of action, no question. But this bothers me the most why is Grand Prive still breathing? Why are they not being perused in a more aggressive fashion? Is this all we can do when a program suddenly decides to give players or us the shaft?

I believe collectively individual affiliates can make some real change if we stay focused as Dominique suggested. This is not about GPWA, APCW, AFG, or CM failing us it is about us failing to really exploit our talents. Come together as team and work collectively to make change happen. So in essence the AU/GAU may provide that neutral zone.

So I ask who would not like to see Grand Prive overshadowed by our big Web presence?

I would like to see everyone comeback forget about the grudges.

greek39

P.S Oh boy you ladies are in trouble now...too funny.

[pgaming]

I would have to agree... I had such a good time with Peter.. LOL Both Pia and I talk about him often.... We drove him to the AirPort and all had a good talk.

I consider him one my best affiliate friends!!!! Rock ON GREEK!!!

Plus i am suppose to visit his greek villiage one day!!! I need a place to stay LOL

The Greek Village in Toronto is really cool Steve, a must see. Go in the daytime lol. No seriously both you and Pia are very kind. I really enjoyed the ride!

Thanks

greek39

[mojo]

Until now, I have not taken part in this discussion for several reasons....

1. It was obvious that the announcement came too soon. Kind of like putting the cart before the horse. A union/organisation such as is being proposed here is a huge undertaking that will require major planning and tons of patience.

2. While Dave is a great asset to our industry, he does not possess the social skills necessary to head up the union.

3. I'm not convinced we need another group lobbying for our interests.

-----------------------------------------------------------

That said, now that Paul and Paula have taken on the leadership roles, I think there is potential for the AU/GAU to do some good.

The union will need to have a clear mandate/charter and a narrow focus. Spreading itself too thin will undoubtedly strain it's very limited resources beyond the breaking point.

Personally, I think it's impossible for the union to operate effectively as a non funded (or self funded), volunteer type of organisation. The demands on everyones time will simply be too heavy to sustain over the long haul.

If this group/union were to be organised with the single goal of dealing with retro-active changes to T&C's, it may work. But, to create a true union with a broad scope/mandate will require serious man hours and plenty of cash.

I suggest that Paula and Paul put their heads together and decide on a common vision/goal for this union before moving ahead. Answer the following questions (and many others), then bring your proposal back to the forums for open discussions.

What is the most important issue for the union to address?
How much time and money will we need to achieve our first objective?
Where will the money come from?
Who will do what?
What happens to the union if one of the founders drops out?
Who decides what issues the union should take on?
And in what order?
What forms of attack will the union use to achieve results?
How will the union communicate with it's members?
If the union is going to accept financial donations, who is going to be responsible for the money?
How will we know the funds are protected?
Who will decide what to spend the money on?

So many questions....

Thank you Terry. This is the core of what we need to concentrate on. Together as affiliates. Good stuff.

[Integrity]

I don't know about all of that JTodd. Unless I am misreading, there is a certain hopelessness with affiliates due to the current state of affairs.

Well, two points here...

First... there is a certain attitude with affiliates these days. I don't think it's hopelessness, but distrust may be a better word. And maybe distrust still isn't the right word. We are all just a bit gun shy after UIGEA, the economic crisis, and then Grand Prive. We keep expecting the worst, and lately it's looked bleak at times.

Second... I should have specifically replied to Arkyt, I guess. My above post was in response to his constant complaints and criticisms without much substance, solution, or participation. I did not adress him directly because I didn't want to. I should have been more clear. Sorry.

But this bothers me the most why is Grand Prive still breathing? Why are they not being perused in a more aggressive fashion? Is this all we can do when a program suddenly decides to give players or us the shaft?

Grand Prive is still breathing, but they are hurting as well... they just don't want us to know we're getting to them. I was told by many operators at the conference that Grand Prive has been actively seeking out companies for media buys... they need traffic! I hear most of the conversations start with Grand Prive saying "I know you've heard bad things about us... but it isn't true!". So, I know we're hurting them... but we're not done yet. I think you know I have much more aggressive plans. My goal is to rip off various parts of their figurative anatomy and shove it up another portion of their figurative anatomy. But it takes time to plan and execute.

We have not done all we can to solve this issue. Much more is needed and coming... I promise. My goal is not to destroy Grand Prive. My goal is to get every webmaster paid their lifetime commissions as promised... and Grand Prive would be keen to take note of this if they want to stop the bleeding right now. Then I want to make certain this sort of thing never happens again.

Along the way to this goal, I plan a couple of detours... straight up the rear end Microgaming and eCOGRA. Things may get wild.

[mojo]

First... there is a certain attitude with affiliates these days. I don't think it's hopelessness, but distrust may be a better word. And maybe distrust still isn't the right word. We are all just a bit gun shy after UIGEA, the economic crisis, and then Grand Prive. We keep expecting the worst, and lately it's looked bleak at times.

I believe it's more than that JTodd. Not gun shy. Not UIGEA. It's more than GP. It's the current retro terms. It's the current apalling Rome issue in the 'unethical' section here where a player was taken away from an affiliate. How is that allowed? It's a dozen other things. Hopelessness is the word IMO. We are not effective. I am extremely alarmed that we must accept the way things are. I do not agree with that. I do not accept that.

Second... I should have specifically replied to Arkyt, I guess. My above post was in response to his constant complaints and criticisms without much substance, solution, or participation. I did not adress him directly because I didn't want to. I should have been more clear. Sorry.

My belief is that every affiliate deserves a vote. Whether its me or arkyt or you. One affiliate, one vote. Whether we agree with each other or not is not the point. We all know, as Dominique aptly put, we may never be able to be on the same page. However, one vote, one affiliate is fair. Let us speak as one.