Paddy Power

[ALEX777]

For god sakes what is going in this industry.
Steve

Maybe they all had an account in "Lehman Brothetrs" or invested in USA obligations, and now they decided to rob everybody to cover the looses? Yes, something is going on in the industry....

[GFPC]

Its a constant " ROB THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU" then run off and hide, like a dog does with his bone. If you try and reason with the dog you get bite.

Maybe they all had an account in "Lehman Brothetrs" or invested in USA obligations, and now they decided to rob everybody to cover the looses? Yes, something is going on in the industry....

[GamTrak]

WOW, this type of behavior is NOT cool at all! What a bunch of crap. Good work Rick & Chalkie!

Good luck Bear. I hope they do the right thing and pay you your revenue.

[Caruso]

I removed Paddies after they tried to pull a stunt on a player two months ago:

http://www.hundredpercentgambling.co...evoked-for.htm

Pulling stunts on other customers, including affiliates, isn't acceptable.

[joeyl]

Is it in the terms, or is it not.

Ladbrokes don't pay folk who lose in the casino after they signed up via a poker link and so on.

Look, if the terms are that bad, what is the GPWA going to do about it?

[Chalkie]

Is it in the terms, or is it not.

Ladbrokes don't pay folk who lose in the casino after they signed up via a poker link and so on.

Look, if the terms are that bad, what is the GPWA going to do about it?

If you look earlier in the thread you will see that i pointed out that on close inspection of the terms you will actually find that it is in the terms and that they DO pay cross promotions!

[Betpartners]

Extract from their T & c's

This appears to say that if you refer the player they will pay you for any transaction that customer makes.

On further inspection of their terms there is no mention whatsoever that

Bear, i would be asking them to show you where, in their t & c's, they say anything that pertains to what they are actually saying in their email response to you.

Trust me to disagree hey

Ok first part of their T&C says this

1. This Document

1.1 This document (the "Agreement") sets out the terms and conditions between Paddy Power Isle of Man Limited ("Paddy Power", "we", "us" or "our" as applicable) and you (the person who applied for this programme using the online application form)("you" or "your"), in relation to your application to setup an affiliate account (and membership of the affiliate programme if your application is deemed successful) to promote the websites currently situated at www.paddypower.com, www.paddypowerpoker.com, www.paddypowercasino.com, www.paddypowergames.com and www.paddypowerbingo.com (each and all such websites (as applicable, depending on the products you are signed up to promote) to be referred to hereinafter as the "Paddy Power Sites") and the creation of internet hyperlinks from your website(s) (your "Site") to the Paddy Power Sites (the "Links").



So the use of the words Paddy Power Sites does not mean ALL their products.


They do say depending on the products you are signed up to promote.


Yes it is ambiguous and yes it could and should be far clearer but the way i read this they are covered by their T&C


That said it does seem contradictory in parts, but if a lawayer were to read this then i suspect that Paddys are covered.


Its a shame that the OP may lose out but it does show that we should all read all terms and conditions and ask questions if anything seems vague.

[Chalkie]

OK, so you have to apply to each seperate program with them and if so

4.2 Subject to your complying with Paddy Power's instructions with regard to tracking customers accessing the Paddy Power Sites via the Links on your Site, Paddy Power shall use all reasonable endeavours to ensure that whenever a customer links to the Paddy Power Sites through these Links and they subsequently place a bet or otherwise transact with Paddy Power, the relevant customer is identified as originating from your Site. However, Paddy Power shall not be liable to you in any way if Paddy Power is unable to identify a customer as originating from your Site.

must be the effective term.

However, if i remember correctly, signing up to paddy signs you up to all parts not just the ones you choose, so therefore 4.2 comes in to effect for all surely.

[Chalkie]

Mind you, all this aside the honourable thing is to pay up!

After all, they paid out on Stoke getting relegated last season and they never did!

[Chalkie]

They aint gonna pay out on spurs winning the tiltle tho ever! Not even if they were 30 points clear with 31 to fight for, i mean, everyone knows spurs will never win it!

[Betpartners]

No not really because at 1.1 they define paddy power sites as a generalised term and say clearly depending on what product you sign up for.

I cannot recall what the sign up process and so forth is like and what it means in terms of cross platform, i am working from the T&C alone and like i say they seem to be covered.

That said the terms are at best vague, maybe that is deliberate i have no idea, they should make it clearer for future reference to avoid incidences like this and the bad publicity it brings.

But it is a two way street, we as affiliates must read all etrms and if in doubt ask for clarification.

Personally i dont like this, it is not right, if i sign up a player then i expect payment across the board, but i just dont see how the OP can force Paddys to pay up based on the terms.

But i would like to think that Paddys do the right thing here and pay up.

It is one thing being in the right and another thing doing the right thing.

Lets hope that they do the right thing here

[pgaming]

Say what?

If you can generate 20 or 30 accounts like that one in the next couple of months, we’ll be happy to reward you with cross-product commission.

Hey is this not bribery/extortion. Dude thanks for the player but please send us more and we will give cross-product commission. In the meantime you are a rookie and are SOL.

So tell me where is the valid argument for not paying Bear. Hey PP maybe Bear will remove you altogether and start charging an inclusion fee.

I vote to pay the Bear he sent the player there.

greek39

[Chips]

Here we go again.

Another program falling silent to us. What is so difficult in responding? Why has the GPWA not contacted PP and asked them to respond to a player issue? This crap is getting old VERY QUICKLY!

If you are a sponsor, you should have the duty to interact with and be somewhat active here.

Someone needs to grow a set of ....

[joeyl]

Well players can play the casino after signing up via a poker link easy enough.

I never liked the term, but never knew other affs thought the rule was a bit of a liberty.

If it is a liberty, why are they sponsors here, and what role does the GPWA have regarding unfair terms?

The least would be GPWA members get cross promotion automatically.

Maybe I should be a private member to find out how this GPWA thing really works on behalf of it's members.

[Betpartners]

Two seperate issues i think

The first is the terms

If the terms are vague and deemed unfair then it is a case for AGD to take up, the terms are what they are and there is no mileage to be made having a pop at an affiliate program that sticks to its terms.

Maybe if the AGD deem the terms unreasonable then we have grounds to have a go.

The second is the OP situation

Morally Paddys should pay up, however if they do it will open up the floodgates and they have not broken any rules here however unfair we think their terms are.

To have a go at Paddys because they stick to their terms i think is unfair, each affiliate has the ability to read and accept the terms before they sign up with them.

There is no retrocactive action here, no term changes, just a program implementing their terms.

[casinobonusguy]

We have worked with Jess at paddy partners for couple years and we see players in all channels on our stats.I will point Jess to this thread and see what she has to say .

Judy

[joeyl]

There is no retrocactive action here, no term changes, just a program implementing their terms.

Terms casino players have to endure is something that has been mentioned before.

All too frequently I see affiliates with the same problem.

Tell me: if I send someone to Amazon to buy book a, and the buy cd b, do I not get any commission?

The question is, is this rule accepted practise for affiliates generally, or is it certain gaming affiliates are having a laugh?

[TheGooner]

(at the risk of being shot down in a flame war) ....

I read someone asking - "what is it with this business (online gambling) these days ?"
Might I also ask - "what is it with affiliates these days ?"

AFFILIATES - READ THE BLOODY CONTRACTS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE SIGNING ON

When we started working with PaddyPower, we read the T&C's first as step one, before going any further. I understood that these clauses meant we would only get paid for the initial platform that the player signed to.

I do understand that some European companies automatically cross-credit, but those same companies also usually have bundling of products together and/or monthly negative rollover clauses - which Paddy Power does not.

Additionally, % share, bonus deductions, promotional costs, and a number of other items are usually treated quite differently depending on which company to are promoting.

After questioning these clauses directly, I confirmed that the vanilla contract would not credit cross platform sales, and specfically negotiated a different deal as part of an agreement to promote the casino and poker segments of the Paddy Power brand.

There seem to be too many assumptions being made by affiliates now. Assuming that it's set-up one way or other is wrong, and frankly a bit slap-dash or amateur. Assuming, or wishing for cross-crediting, while retaining unbundling and no negative rollover does not make it happen.

This online gambling affiliation is a complicated environment - especially with regards cross platform and I believe that different bits of Paddy Power are set-up, licensed and run in different locations. For all intents and purposes the four gaming streams of Paddy Power (Sports, Casino, Games, Poker) run seperately.

In summary ... I do not think that it's predatory - it's part of their business model - and it IS in the standard contract.

That being said - it does highlight an information gap in the affiliate market - a place for newbie (and not so new) affiliates to go and understand exactly what they're getting into.

In the meantime, if anyone has queries on the setup of UK/European multi-platform gambling operators and their affiliate programs then I'm happy to volunteer my time to answer questions - perhaps BetPartners would be in for that too - as between us we've probably dealt with most of the big brands?

(Although to be honest - you would be better to thoroughly read the contract and then clarify directly with the program involved)

Possbile longer term solutions ?:
Perhaps the GPWA could offer a support forum?
Perhaps AGD could be clearer in their evaluation and summarise the pros and cons of terms?

[pgaming]

Maybe I should be a private member to find out how this GPWA thing really works on behalf of it's members.

As I always suggested members drive boards not individuals or it should be. No members the board eventually fizzles away as simple as that.

Not a bad idea Joeyl becoming a private... be nice.


Just a thought

greek39

[Betpartners]

In the meantime, if anyone has queries on the setup of UK/European multi-platform gambling operators and their affiliate programs then I'm happy to volunteer my time to answer questions - perhaps BetPartners would be in for that too - as between us we've probably dealt with most of the big brands?

TheGooner excellent post as usual and i do agree that as affiliates we should always read the terms and ask questions if required, something i have said in my posts on this subject.

On that we agree 100%

And yes by all means when it comes to European books i am more than happy to answer any questions as you suggest.

We can all help each other here but we must also endeavour to help ourselves by doing the simple tasks first.