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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spearmaster View Post
    With all due respect, I don't think Alex is at fault here in the slightest - we don't know exactly where Steven was, nor what Lou said, but we all agree Steven was poorly treated and as far as I can tell, Alex did his best to right the situation at the earliest opportunity. Michael himself has already acknowledged Alex's professional handling of the situation.
    With all due respect in turn, The staff member did in fact work for Alex as Alex has previously stated, correct. I too have staff members and I know that if one of my staff members had of acted upon someone else's orders at a public event without confirming their intentions with me before hand then I would look upon this negligent act as being my fault for poorly training my staff member on proper protocol.

    Remember the buck stops at the top of the corporate chain structure. If the staff member in my opinion had of been properly trained on protocol issues then this negligent act may have never happened in the first place.

  2. #122
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    Thank you for coming here and posting a statement, Alex.

    Guru, I hope that you and everyone else here has absolutely no doubt that I am on your side. However, please keep in mind that Alex himself is in a very unique and difficult position right now.

    What happened at the event was the direct responsibility of Lou and Lou alone. This had to be Alex's worst nightmare come true. All I ask is that we please remember that Alex is not CAP, he was no where near the "theatrics", and he reacted to correct things to the best of his ability immediately after he learned what was going on.

    This is in no way a defense of what happened... it was appalling and unacceptable... but we need to keep blame on the one individual who is actually responsible.
    Last edited by Integrity; 2 February 2009 at 6:35 am.

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  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexpratt View Post
    As I understand it if you aren't a paying guest in the hotel you can be removed from the premises (Rebecca had a room but Michael, Steven etc didn't) but to be honest this is beside the point - The issue is that it happend and as I say it was a mistake and should not have happended -

    I will do my best to help Steven deal with the Novotel which I am sure will also take his complaint (should he make one) very seriously - They are a gigantic company and I am sure value their reputation

    I really don't want to get into a discussion about what was right and what was wrong - The people involved have spoken and I believe we are moving forward in a positive way - I really hope you can respect this so we can keep going forward

    Cheers

    Alex

    Quote Originally Posted by Spearmaster View Post
    Steven and Michael are hotel guests and should not have been ejected from a public area.

    Casinomeister, Simmo & I are not at the conference - we left in the morning after a few meetings and Webzcas joined us in the evening.

    OK, someone help us out here...Was Steven a registered paying guest of the "Hotel in question"... or not ??

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGamblingGuru View Post
    OK, someone help us out here...Was Steven a registered paying guest of the "Hotel in question"... or not ??
    It's my understanding that the GPWA did have a room at the hotel reserved for a staff member. I cannot confirm who that person was.

    Michael is on a plane over the ocean right now and will most likely not be able to respond for several more hours. I believe he will answer at his first opportunity.

    =0)

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  7. #125
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    What has happened has happened. Those involved as indicated by Michael and Alex in this thread have subsequently sat down and resolved this situation concerning Steven.

    CardSpike and other concerns we have regarding CAP and their perceived bullying of like minded organisations are completely different and seperate issues IMO.
    Exit stage left

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  9. #126
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    To me and i believe it should be for all of us in the industry, the important thing is

    Not what security did

    Not what the hotel did

    Not who the messenger to security was

    BUT THAT LOU HAD IMPORTANT GPWA PEOPLE REMOVED!

    The other issues are private between the relevant parties! Novotel and its security are irrelevant to our industry, earnings or results.

    Of course Micheal and Stevens wellbeing are important to us and if security was employed directly by Lou then that is also an issue.

    This is just another episode showing the true colours of Lou and CAP, or at least that is how it appears to me.
    Paul

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  10. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexpratt View Post
    Guys - Just wanted to clarify a few things - A member of my staff (after being told by Lou) asked security to remove Steven from the hotel - As soon as I was made aware of this I reversed the decision and had security appologise to Steven.

    This was one massive mistake on our part and I am happy to admit it - Steven should never have been escorted out of the venue and we have since (myself and CAP) done our best to make it up to Steven, Michael, etc including aquiring the CCTV footage so we can review the methods the security used which I understand was not appropriate and will of course assist Steven with any complaints he wants to make to the security company.

    The good news is that we were able to sort all the Casino City, GPWA and APCW staff with badges the following day on top of having two meetings between CAP and GPWA which in my opinion were really positive.

    Again HUGE appologies to Steven - It is not an excuse but Lou has been under a hell of a lot of pressure recently and has received numerous threatening and nasty emails/letters from anonymous people and I think this just built up to London - This is not an excuse but it goes someway to explaining how this situtaion happended - Lou did the following day appologise to both Michael and Steven about his behaviour the previous day which I think is a really great step forward

    SO - Lets please not dwell on the negative and stick to the positive and move forward which I truely believe we can do now - We messed up but we made amends as soon as we could and are really keen to build on the positives that came out of this situation.

    If you have any questions or need anything else I am just at the end of a PM or email
    This is a very nice post Alex, thank you. I was hoping that after all of this, we'd actually see a public apology to Steven. And here's a very nice one from you.

    I haven't seen one from Lou, and wonder if he's a big enough man to post a nice public apology to Steven. We'll see....

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  12. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkie View Post
    To me and i believe it should be for all of us in the industry, the important thing is

    Not what security did

    Not what the hotel did

    Not who the messenger to security was

    BUT THAT LOU HAD IMPORTANT GPWA PEOPLE REMOVED!

    The other issues are private between the relevant parties! Novotel and its security are irrelevant to our industry, earnings or results.

    Of course Micheal and Stevens wellbeing are important to us and if security was employed directly by Lou then that is also an issue.

    This is just another episode showing the true colours of Lou and CAP, or at least that is how it appears to me.
    I believe that Dom has already confirmed in her previous post here that the security team was the hotels security team and not a private one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominique View Post
    Just a quick post before all the rumors hit:

    Casinomeister was nowhere near the incident.

    What I saw:

    Steve (Michael Corfman's son) was forcibly escorted from the lobby of the hotel by hotel security guards.

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  14. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGamblingGuru View Post
    I believe that Dom has already confirmed in her previous post here that the security team was the hotels security team and not a private one...
    Thats fair enough then, i was not trying to say that it was or was not Lous security! Just that it if was then there was an issue, sorry for the confusion there.

    Although, i have to say, the security seemed quite tough for a hotel conference. The security at the night club i went to later that evening seemed lower than than at the hotel!
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  15. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkie View Post
    Thats fair enough then, i was not trying to say that it was or was not Lous security! Just that it if was then there was an issue, sorry for the confusion there.

    Although, i have to say, the security seemed quite tough for a hotel conference. The security at the night club i went to later that evening seemed lower than than at the hotel!
    Yes, I agree with you on that Chalkie, it does seem that way based on everything that I have read so far too.

  16. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGamblingGuru View Post
    Yes, I agree with you on that Chalkie, it does seem that way based on everything that I have read so far too.
    I felt quite intimidated going through the doors into level 1 for the seminars with the 2 very large "bouncers" standing either side of the door.

    I was quite perplexed by that at the time i remember!
    Paul

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  17. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkie View Post
    I felt quite intimidated going through the doors into level 1 for the seminars with the 2 very large "bouncers" standing either side of the door.

    I was quite perplexed by that at the time i remember!
    LOL, it's starting to sound like going to some of these high octane events may require one to be accompanied by their own very large bouncer!

  18. #133
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    Lou and co. are out of order only insofar as they made some pompous assumption that they had the right to order anyone out of anything other than their event.

    However, the fault is with the security team. They had every right to remove a member from a CAP event at CAP's request without violence, but they had no right to remove him from the hotel at anyone other than the manager's behest, whether or not the ejected member was a hotel resident.

    The security team is at fault here, and they should take the consequences for both the bogus removal and the violence. I'm not in favour of this mafiaesque treatment. They should apologise and pay compensation.

    On this matter alone Lou was just being a pompous dick, which in context is moreorless tolerable. That of course doesn't excuse anything else we've seen recently.

  19. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caruso View Post
    Lou and co. are out of order only insofar as they made some pompous assumption that they had the right to order anyone out of anything other than their event.

    However, the fault is with the security team. They had every right to remove a member from a CAP event at CAP's request without violence, but they had no right to remove him from the hotel at anyone other than the manager's behest, whether or not the ejected member was a hotel resident.

    The security team is at fault here, and they should take the consequences for both the bogus removal and the violence. I'm not in favour of this mafiaesque treatment. They should apologise and pay compensation.

    On this matter alone Lou was just being a pompous dick, which in context is moreorless tolerable. That of course doesn't excuse anything else we've seen recently.
    Who says that the hotel manager had not authorised this?

    Who says that Lou had not primed the hotel that some unwanted people may have been attending etc etc?

    You cannot blame hotel security for doing there job - UNLESS they were over the top and used undue force! Arms behind back is not undue force!

    If there looks like there may be violence what are security meant to do? They are meant to dissolve the situation, if this means removing certain parties then this is what has to be done. The fact that it seems they removed the wrong parties, the parties that were subject to threats, is the problem!

    Would have been funny if they had frog marched Lou out!

    Basically i think it is unfair to slate the security guys, they were doing their job and until such time as it is known on whose authority they acted then how can you say that the security are out of order! They could have done much worse than frog march someone out, then there would be reason!
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  20. #135
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    I have hopefully explained the situation so I won't be posting in here anymore as I am keen to move on and build on the positive relationship we have with GPWA members and staff going forward - I have said sorry to Steven, Lou has said sorry to Steven, and my member of staff has said sorry to Steven - It was a mistake which was rectified almost straight away and we are genuinely sorry - We are also helping Steven deal with the way the security people behaved in every way possible

    If you have any more questions specifically about this situation then please PM or email me although to be honest I think I covered everything.

    Regarding the guys on the doors on level 1 and level 3 - They were specifically told to be strict because in the past many operators were "sneaking" in free of charge which meant our costs were going up and revenue going down which ultimately would mean we wouldn't be able to let affiliates in free anymore which has and always will be one of our trademarks. I am sorry if they came across intimidating and I will certainly ensure they smile and are a little gentler next time - This kind of feedback is really useful and I assure you I will always act on any suggestions to better our events going forward.
    iGB Affiliate - The biggest magazine and events for affiliates in igaming

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  22. #136
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    Chalkie,

    It's about accountability. The security staff are accountable. Whatever load of bollocks Fabiano MAY have told them, the buck stops with the security staff. Did they ask questions? Make any effort to check anything that Fabiano may have told them?

    Doesn't look like it to me.

    Lou behaved like a dick, but the security staff were not in his employ and they aren't answerable to him. The hotel manager is accountable here. If he DID authorise it, as you suggest he may have, then again, it's his neck on the line for a bogus expulsion. If the goons on the door acted off their own bat, then THEY are accountable.

  23. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexpratt View Post
    I have hopefully explained the situation so I won't be posting in here anymore as I am keen to move on and build on the positive relationship we have with GPWA members and staff going forward - I have said sorry to Steven, Lou has said sorry to Steven, and my member of staff has said sorry to Steven - It was a mistake which was rectified almost straight away and we are genuinely sorry - We are also helping Steven deal with the way the security people behaved in every way possible

    If you have any more questions specifically about this situation then please PM or email me although to be honest I think I covered everything.

    Regarding the guys on the doors on level 1 and level 3 - They were specifically told to be strict because in the past many operators were "sneaking" in free of charge which meant our costs were going up and revenue going down which ultimately would mean we wouldn't be able to let affiliates in free anymore which has and always will be one of our trademarks. I am sorry if they came across intimidating and I will certainly ensure they smile and are a little gentler next time - This kind of feedback is really useful and I assure you I will always act on any suggestions to better our events going forward.

    Alex no need for extra clarification as far as I am concerned. You have acted professionally IMO.
    Exit stage left

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  25. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGamblingGuru View Post
    OK, someone help us out here...Was Steven a registered paying guest of the "Hotel in question"... or not ??
    This was my understanding, but since I didn't ask the hotel nor see their room keys, it is entirely possible that I was mistaken.

    Alex did the best he could under the circumstances - I had been chatting with him over a very quick buffet lunch and he was his usual friendly self but obviously very busy. I then walked out to chat with Casinomeister and Patrick from Klub8 and noticed that Lou seemed to be a bit agitated, but I wrote it off as nothing to be concerned about - then as we were leaving for Bath, we heard that Steven had been thrown out of the event - so I had a quick word with him - he was concerned that the person he was supposed to meet would think that he had been stood up. I told him not to worry about it, perhaps the person would come out, or else someone else could get a message to him.

    Steven and Michael had been around the table that Simmo and I had used alternately for meetings that morning - this was right near the entrance to the conference. In retrospect, I guess Lou had been looking at the people in this area.

    Anyhow we left shortly thereafter. It was only over dinner later that night that we heard what had happened afterwards.

    In closing, some quotes from Michael's post (the bolding is mine) - I'm sure he will respond in full when he gets home.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman
    Alex Pratt, who works with the good folks at iGaming Business, and who does much of the hard work of organizing and putting on the events was also pretty clearly upset about what happened. I've known Alex for a long time, and have a great deal of respect for him, as I believe all in the industry who know him well do also.

    ...

    I came down from a suite in the hotel when J.Todd called me about Steven to try to find out what had happened to him and where he was because all I knew from the phone call I received was that Steven had been forcefully taken away in the elevator from the hotel lobby.

    ...

    I talked with Alex later in the evening. As I said at the beginning of this post, I have known Alex for a long time and respect him very much. Alex said he was going to try to see that we were given passes for the conference because he thought that was the right thing to happen. This morning, while I was typing in this post, I received a text message from Alex letting me know that was the case. Thanks Alex, and thanks Warren for agreeing to Alex's request.

    Personally, I just want to put this whole upsetting episode behind me. And I want to make sure that those who are upset about the situation don't associate it with Alex or Warren because it was not the doing of either of them.

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  27. #139
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    This is just one more Chapter of the CAP drama lately.For us ,the Cap forum has been a source of distraction and I equate participation by my employees and myself like allowing us to watch the soaps in the afternoon hours.

    We will not be active participants of CAP forum until ALL Cardspike affiliates are paid.I think that is what we have to do as affiliates to support each other.We know that Michael and Jtodd have proven they are connected and the denials by CAP are not going to stick.One affiliate has said he is owed $15,000 by Cardspike,imagine if it were you?
    Would any of you socialise with owners of Grand Prive or Hotpepper affiliates now?IMO hanging out with CAP is no different.
    As long as affiliates and Program MANAGERS go to the forum and support them with money ,they are gettign away with it.I would like to see one manager have the guts to take the public opinion they share in private. Ask CAP to take all this forum certification money and pay their bills.

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  29. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spearmaster View Post
    This was my understanding, but since I didn't ask the hotel nor see their room keys, it is entirely possible that I was mistaken.

    Alex did the best he could under the circumstances - I had been chatting with him over a very quick buffet lunch and he was his usual friendly self but obviously very busy. I then walked out to chat with Casinomeister and Patrick from Klub8 and noticed that Lou seemed to be a bit agitated, but I wrote it off as nothing to be concerned about - then as we were leaving for Bath, we heard that Steven had been thrown out of the event - so I had a quick word with him - he was concerned that the person he was supposed to meet would think that he had been stood up. I told him not to worry about it, perhaps the person would come out, or else someone else could get a message to him.

    Steven and Michael had been around the table that Simmo and I had used alternately for meetings that morning - this was right near the entrance to the conference. In retrospect, I guess Lou had been looking at the people in this area.

    Anyhow we left shortly thereafter. It was only over dinner later that night that we heard what had happened afterwards.

    In closing, some quotes from Michael's post (the bolding is mine) - I'm sure he will respond in full when he gets home.
    Thanks for the additional info, and for the record, what I do know about Alex and his efforts in this industry, I do and have always respected him/them. I believe he is a stand up guy with integrity but I still defer back to my post here that no one yet has bothered to tackle or comment on...

    https://www.gpwa.org/forum/steven-as...tml#post526701

    I know that my comments in that post there may be a harsh reality to face but in the real world I have to on a daily basis, as well as many others in the business world too. It is a hard revelation for me to have to admit to myself and my customers (not gambling related) that yes, there are areas in my organization and staffs training that I need to work on and make improvements in, so that whatever they did or did not do will not happen again. We all learn from our shortfalls daily as far as staff training is concerned.
    Last edited by TheGamblingGuru; 2 February 2009 at 11:05 am.

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