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  1. #81
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    I would also suggest that trying to stop people from discussing this issue is as futile as trying to stop a river with your hand.
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
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  3. #82
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    oops my apologises to the fair lady for refering to her as a he

  4. #83
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    i seem terribly out numbered in my opinion and now my football (soccer for the cousins) have gone 1-0 down, not my day so far

  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    i seem terribly out numbered in my opinion and now my football (soccer for the cousins) have gone 1-0 down, not my day so far
    Sorry about that.

    At the end of the day we will all still be here doing business, Cap or not. Hope to see you.


  6. #85
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    I am absolutely stunned at this news and if it is true and there are apparently many witnesses i will be speaking to people i promote on my sites re this . To take a guy like Steve and pick on him is sub human

    Contrary to popular belief - London is a civilized place and i am 99.9 percent sure that Security Guards are not allowed to do anything like this . They are not allowed to manhandle anyone . This is classified as GBH in the United Kingdom and the Hotel can be sued for this . Security Guards must have a reason for escorting or manhandling people and simply recieving an order from an organizer does not cut ice . The Hotel must have cctv camera footage of this .

    I feel so sorry for Alex is he is a fantastic guy and has obviously done another great job at the conference and does not deserve this kind of thing happening to him . A Total Gentleman you are Alex and thank you for that,however the founder of this orginization and his kind of beahaviour can not be condoned by anyone or excuses made for this behaviour.

    What springs to mind is the cry to be left alone by Lou and then he apparently behaves in this fashion.

    I am now an affiliate after working for many years as an Affiliate Manager and although i have been banned as an affiliate from CAP for no reason ( the message i see when trying to log on ) that is their choice to make and if they dont want me well i will carry on regardless, this issue however - the picking on of Steven has made me very disillusioned.

    I have a few people that i really look up to in this industry - Casinomeister , Dom ,Spearmaster , Topboss and Steven and Michael are definitely in there with them . Honesty and Intergrity go a long way in this industry as most affiliate managers know and at the end of the day you need to make up your own mind and be oblivious of the semantics.

    If a situation is not transparent- well there is probably a reason for that.

    Steven i hope you have recovered from your ordeal and i do hope that you take legal advice re this situation. There is no way that Hotel Security or anyone associated with the Hotel can do this to you on the orders of an organiser or anyone else .I think speaking to the Hotel Manager will confirm this fact for you.

    Regards
    Greg

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo View Post
    Sorry about that.

    At the end of the day we will all still be here doing business, Cap or not. Hope to see you.

    Yes i like this place, will certainly hang around and give my opinion and contribute as best i can though believe it or not on occasions i will be in agreement with the general opinion

    love these icons

  8. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman View Post

    Warren talked about wanting to work together as partners, and that an apology on our part would be a first step in making that happen.
    Michael
    What an insolence!!
    like a criminal is demanding an apology from the victim.
    I guess We are still seeing only the tip of the iceberg. More investigation should take place --publicly...not privatelly...that won't solve anything...just'd sweep things under the rug. We have the right to learn what's been going on behind our back for years. I hope at least one affiliate manager has the guts to come forward and let us now how CAP blackmailed programmes and how CAP covered up for rouge programms and for what costs.
    Last edited by worthy; 31 January 2009 at 12:43 pm.

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  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFPC View Post
    Hey there thank you for the reply.

    I think Pumacat yourself and me are all from Toronto. Maybe yes we can get together somewhere for lunch or something and discuss this with a Canadian flare!! LOL

    Lets all try and find a time!!

    Steve
    Ok anyone else in Toronto want to get together for lunch in next couple weeks? Monday and Wednesday is only 2 days we can do lunches ,Although I am the boss i do try to structure an office enviorment here .Tracy and I are only allowed to go out these two days by rest of the staff lol.

  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    There is no way that Hotel Security or anyone associated with the Hotel can do this to you on the orders of an organiser or anyone else .I think speaking to the Hotel Manager will confirm this fact for you.

    Regards
    Greg
    I tend to disagree.

    If you ran the event and asked security to oust a troublemaker, they would do so. That's what security staff are there for G.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    I tend to disagree.

    If you ran the event and asked security to oust a troublemaker, they would do so. That's what security staff are there for G.
    As far as I comprehended, Steven wasn't at the event but in a public place... in a hotel where he had a room and paid for it, and he hasn't been a troublemaker at the event. On the other hand they used excessive force wich is even prohibited for the police force. I have seen police officers jailed for using excessive force. The sec. guys have right to ask the person to leave....in a civilized country...at least. London isn't the wild west.

  13. #91
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    Michael said :Warren talked about wanting to work together as partners, and that an apology on our part would be a first step in making that happen. Personally, I had a hard time wrapping my head around the concept that we owe him an apology and he does not owe us one, but the conversation was in general a positive one with neither of us wanting public confrontations.

    The way i see it this would be cap's only way to recover for gpwa apologize ,say they were wrong and cap did nothing wrong and don't own Cardspike.
    Partners?Unlikely.I respect the fact warren seemed to act with respect to Michael but it is just damage control.What they don't realize is until they be honest with EVERYONE this will not go away.

    I take responsibility to pay 12 employees and my casino revenue is what pays their mortgages and fees their family.Forums are great for meeting others who do same thing for a living ,after many years i give up trying to explain it to my family and friends.But I am done accepting forum endorsements to pick my partners -that applies to this one and every forum.
    I rather take a group of fellow affiliates out to lunch that live locally and for us to compare notes on the programs at least then we know we are all being honest with eachother.

    Judy

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  15. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by casinobonusguy View Post
    But I am done accepting forum endorsements to pick my partners -that applies to this one and every forum.
    Judy
    I am done for quite a long while.
    Many programmes performed much better before CAP's certified 'em

  16. #93
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    Affilaite programs are going to go where the affs are. Affs are going to go where the programs are.

    It really makes me angry that Aff managers are put in this awkward position as well as affiliates.

    Maybe for another thread lol.

  17. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    I am absolutely stunned at this news and if it is true and there are apparently many witnesses i will be speaking to people i promote on my sites re this . To take a guy like Steve and pick on him is sub human

    Contrary to popular belief - London is a civilized place and i am 99.9 percent sure that Security Guards are not allowed to do anything like this . They are not allowed to manhandle anyone . This is classified as GBH in the United Kingdom and the Hotel can be sued for this . Security Guards must have a reason for escorting or manhandling people and simply recieving an order from an organizer does not cut ice . The Hotel must have cctv camera footage of this .

    I feel so sorry for Alex is he is a fantastic guy and has obviously done another great job at the conference and does not deserve this kind of thing happening to him . A Total Gentleman you are Alex and thank you for that,however the founder of this orginization and his kind of beahaviour can not be condoned by anyone or excuses made for this behaviour.

    What springs to mind is the cry to be left alone by Lou and then he apparently behaves in this fashion.

    I am now an affiliate after working for many years as an Affiliate Manager and although i have been banned as an affiliate from CAP for no reason ( the message i see when trying to log on ) that is their choice to make and if they dont want me well i will carry on regardless, this issue however - the picking on of Steven has made me very disillusioned.

    I have a few people that i really look up to in this industry - Casinomeister , Dom ,Spearmaster , Topboss and Steven and Michael are definitely in there with them . Honesty and Intergrity go a long way in this industry as most affiliate managers know and at the end of the day you need to make up your own mind and be oblivious of the semantics.

    If a situation is not transparent- well there is probably a reason for that.

    Steven i hope you have recovered from your ordeal and i do hope that you take legal advice re this situation. There is no way that Hotel Security or anyone associated with the Hotel can do this to you on the orders of an organiser or anyone else .I think speaking to the Hotel Manager will confirm this fact for you.

    Regards
    Greg

    Hey Greg
    Welcome to GPWA. Nice to see you here!
    Great first post BTW... way to jump right into the frey
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
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  18. #95
    universal4's Avatar
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    NLP-God

    Please dump a few messages from your pm's. No one can send any private messages to you until you delete a few.

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  20. #96
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    I was there all day yesterday from about 11.30 ish, i never saw anything happen i was still there til very late and my hangover is very very bad!

    I never saw anything of this during the day, but am not of course saying it didnt happen.

    I did see someone being removed from the hotel later on in the evening and must say that they did from a distance appear to be resisting the removal. But as i say it was from a distance. There was a couple of security holding the guy and a couple more following too. They were following i would imagine as a precaution in case it got out of control.

    I cannot comment on any other happenings as i did not see any. I have to be very honesst and say i felt that there was no atmoshphere there and i enjoyed my time.

    I would not know Lou if i fell over him and am pretty sure i never met anyone from GPWA. I wish that i had met a few people from GPWA, waste of a chance there! I did meet with private members from here however and that was nice.

    I am really concerned by the CAP Cardspike issues and all the other problems that are surrounding this. We really have enough problems running our respective businesses without all this!

    How do we sort it out? I wish there was a magic formula.

    Ref the issues above, i suppose in wake of all the troubles CAP were always going to dislike the idea of their knockers being in their show! But then, putting a show on like this, i think they had to accept them in or look fools ejecting them. 1 employee of CAP that i sat talking too in the lobby over a bottle of wine was amazed when i said i was not a member of CAP. Infact she nearly fell of of her chair! TBH i am not sure whether i am a member or not! I have steered clear just on the basis of the headlines of the CAP threads on here.

    I must get round to reading up and making my own mind up how i feel on this issue i suppose.

    CAP as an organisation have every right to ask the hotel to remove people, rightly or wrongly and for sure the hotel are likely to do so as a couple of paying guest compared to the organiser hold very little umph when a decision is made.

    The security guards are all licensed in this country and generally work within the law, especially when on CCTV as they were. If the aggrieved parties feel the need, then i would suggest approaching the police and making a complaint. They will have to investigate the security guards and will look at the CCTV footage.

    Suing the guards is also a possibility if they are prosecuted for the things that have happened. Suing Lou or CAP is not possible i would not think! What grounds would there be?


    Hope i have said nothing out of line here and i am very sad that these things have happened, i am not taking sides with CAP or LOU when i say some of the things above, just my opinions on the facts and how i interpreted them. My support is and always will be with the GPWA, and with members of good standing!

    I do hope that the people who were ejected are well.

    Anyway, sorry for rambling whilst hungover. I missed my train home and owe a very nice guy called Neil many thanks. I cannot work out who he is, and am sure that he was more important than he stated. Well anyway, we had only met yesterday and he gave me the spare room in his flat to rest my weary drunken head, when the hotel would not reduce the room rate, even at 5am in the morning. They wanted 157 for what amounted to about a 4 hours stay!

    P.S. Although i have a hangover, i was not some drunk fool stumbling about the place causing trouble or anything. I never even managed to get a free drink from any of the free bars.

    Biggest thing that happened to me was getting knocked flying in the toilets early eveningby some big geyser that goes by the name of Devilfish. He did apologise though.
    Paul

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  21. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkie View Post
    CAP as an organisation have every right to ask the hotel to remove people, rightly or wrongly and for sure the hotel are likely to do so as a couple of paying guest compared to the organiser hold very little umph when a decision is made.
    I disagree.
    CAP hasn't rented or bought out the whole hotel...only the conference room. CAP or Lou has absolutelly no controll outside the conference room.
    I wonder if the Queen had anything to do in the hotel at the time and happen Lou didn't like here face could have ordered the guards to escort here out of the hotel lobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkie View Post
    Suing the guards is also a possibility if they are prosecuted for the things that have happened. Suing Lou or CAP is not possible i would not think! What grounds would there be?
    Public humiliation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by worthy View Post
    I disagree.
    CAP hasn't rented or bought out the whole hotel...only the conference room. CAP or Lou has absolutelly no controll outside the conference room.
    I wonder if the Queen had anything to do in the hotel at the time and happen Lou didn't like here face could have ordered the guards to escort here out of the hotel lobby?


    Public humiliation?
    No i agree with you, it should not have happened, however, as an event organiser at the hotel, the hotel will always take the side of the organiser in these circumstances. I meant that they had the right to remove them from the conference, not the hotel though anyway.

    Please dont take me as saying i support him / them for what they did! I am simply making an observation. i think it stinks tbh and think that the only reason for such thing is that the perpetrator is frightened of them upsetting the gravy boat so to speak.

    With reference to the Queen, there is no more important person in our country than HRH and had he tried to do that with our Liz, he would have ended up in the tower! I think that our Liz is the most important person in the world!

    reference to the public humiliation thing, in this country you would struggle to have a case for that.
    Paul

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  24. #99
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    I feel some responsibility for any appearance that people are enjoying this or find it entertaining, as theorized by betpartners. Some have misinterpretted my meaning.

    I was LMAO over this because of the sheer rediculousness of Lou's behaviour. The described scene at the hotel was just absurd and shocking. Sometimes shock provokes laughter. This was really the first time in a while that I was speechless.

    I have observed Lou for years using theatrics to get out of binds or to have his way. It is a lot like my husband's ex wife who, when she wants to have her way, will throw a big, scarey temper tantrum and we tend to just let her do her thing rather than face a scene. Lou's pretty much ran CAP with this very tactic and it blew me away that he would actually carry it this far. A business convention, no less!

    Therefore, I say: LMAO! WTF?!!?? Could he possibly DO anything ELSE to make his situation worse?

    Not funny in an entertaining way, no.

    I can't imagine how horrible it was for Steve. My heart goes out to him. It also goes out to Alex. I applaud all those who kept their wits about them and remained calm. Things could have escalated, but they didn't. Where one man could have given the online gambling industry a black eye, a big kudos goes to the majority who kept the situation under control and calmed things down.

    Quote Originally Posted by thepokerkeep View Post
    There are some who think the best thing for our industry is to let this scandal die. I have to disagree.

    Since this industry is virtually unregulated, it's up to each of us to police ourselves, our partners, and our peers. If we, as affiliates and players, had not investigated and publicized the cheating at Absolute Poker and Ultimatebet, their top management would still be stealing millions of dollars from unsuspecting players.

    There are many similarities between these scandals. Both companies tried to deny the charges made against them and sweep things under the rug. Both companies issued threats. In the case of AP/UB, it was publicity and persistence that finally forced an admission of guilt. If we had allowed things to die down AP and UB would have gotten away with stealing millions from the players.


    Since no regulatory body has stepped up, I would suggest that this is the perfect forum to take on the investigation into CAP and CardSpike.
    I agree 100% with this statement.
    Last edited by Fergie; 31 January 2009 at 4:10 pm.
    Janet

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    Quote Originally Posted by worthy View Post
    Many programmes performed much better before CAP's certified 'em
    All that money for fake certifications and a conference every other month comes from some where!

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