Steven assaulted at cap!

[Betpartners]

i agree with that statement but two wrongs dont make a right do they

As i stated Lou was wrong etc but peace moves are underway it seems and rehashing everything, throwing accusations, having insults published simply wont help this.

I just get the feeling that a lot of people rather see this feud continues, i mean its entertaining isnt it?

A quick look through the various forums and you can clearly see who are adding the fuel to the fire and wanting this destructive feud to continue.

I doubt very much if the casino/poker/sportsbook managers think highly of this whole sorry mess and those involved, whoever is right and wrong.

Let peace be given a chance

[worthy]

Sue them for what? removing someone from a hotel/conference or whatever, be realistic millions of people worldwide daily get removed from places and i have no doubts a lot were unwarranted but to start to talking about suing people is just taking this too far.

Same as the headline of this forum "assaulted" looks like a real over dramatising of what happened,

As Michael himself said



Michael also said


Looks like at last some peace efforts are being made so for people on this and the other forum to talk about suing and going over the top about Stevens removal are just stirring and undermining these efforts now.

Though would be funny to see someone attempt to sue in a British court over this, remember this happened in the UK and not in the USA were one can sue someone over a tea being too hot in macdonalds.

What Lou did was wrong, he was obviously very angry but he was removed as well by his own people and afterwards they sat down with Michael.

Let them sort this now and let Gambling911 doing the tabloid headlines, no need for it here

Who you really are? You have just recently registered. Fabiano himself or one of the girls from his harem or just his henchman? You're obviously a shill for CAP.

[Betpartners]

Who you really are? You have just recently registered. Fabiano himself or one of his henchman? You're obviously a shill for CAP.

appalling response, so anyone that has a different opinion is immediately branded a shill, i thought better of this forum, no thats unfair, i can only hope that you are not representative of this forum.

But for the record, i am not assocaited in any way with CAP not registered there and never been to one of their conferences, in fact i am British living in Malta and not even an American

I am more than happy for Michael to contact me, confirm my name and speak to any number of sportsbook affiliate managers who will indeed confirm who i am.

But regardless of that, the response above is awful and not worthy of this forum

[akhil_jks]

Hey worthy, let's not fight here, it's his personal opinion.


And Betpartners, everyone wants peace. But it also needs to be from both sides.

You are saying that some people think it's entertaining- No, it's not! It is only and only disturbing.


I have been in this industry since 6 years, translating for various clients, reading(and obviously translating) industry news into several languages. To me, this industry is like my own home, and any tension in my home makes me tense too!


Others read about this issue because of the same reason. No one in right frame of mind wants to waste his/her time in reading such issues for entertainment.

[Betpartners]

akhil_jks i agree with your sentiment and wish it was the case, but honestly from what i read there are some that appear to be enjoying all this,

But i sincerely agree with the tone of your comments and lets hope peace does break out

[thepokerkeep]

There are some who think the best thing for our industry is to let this scandal die. I have to disagree.

Since this industry is virtually unregulated, it's up to each of us to police ourselves, our partners, and our peers. If we, as affiliates and players, had not investigated and publicized the cheating at Absolute Poker and Ultimatebet, their top management would still be stealing millions of dollars from unsuspecting players.

There are many similarities between these scandals. Both companies tried to deny the charges made against them and sweep things under the rug. Both companies issued threats. In the case of AP/UB, it was publicity and persistence that finally forced an admission of guilt. If we had allowed things to die down AP and UB would have gotten away with stealing millions from the players.

A group of the most respected members of our industry have recently formed an alliance; Affiliate Forum Alliance. The mandate of this alliance, as stated on their home page is:

The Affiliate Forum Alliance is dedicated to supporting online gambling affiliates. Our member affiliate forums offer places where affiliates can share their experiences and accomplish together what is often next to impossible when working alone.

We strongly believe that affiliates deserve to participate in forums where they come first. Forums where the opinions of affiliates are respected and where the business interests of forum operators do not trump the freedom of affiliate webmasters to respectfully share their experiences and knowledge with one another.

We believe in following the highest ethical standards and in the importance of transparency. And we are committed to earning the trust of the affiliates that use our forums every day.

As part of our commitment to earning the trust of affiliates all member affiliate forums have agreed to be accountable for their adherence to these standards.

If you ever observe an affiliate forum operating in a fashion that is inconsistent with any of these principles then we kindly request that you report the situation in our forum for prompt investigation.

Since no regulatory body has stepped up, I would suggest that this is the perfect forum to take on the investigation into CAP and CardSpike.

[worthy]

I'm Sorry Betpartner.
You've sounded like someone from the hardcore of CAP.
I din't try to pick on anyone, just becoming more tense each day by reading what's going on and the recent events at London aggravated me.

[Betpartners]

Sorry Betpartner.
You've sounded like someone from the hardcore of CAP.
I din't try to pick on anyone, just becoming more tense each day by reading what's going on and the recent events at London aggravated me.

No harm done, i can see that there is deep feelings about this and i suppose my views can be contentious, thats not my intention at all,

[Betpartners]

There are some who think the best thing for our industry is to let this scandal die. I have to disagree.

Since this industry is virtually unregulated, it's up to each of us to police ourselves, our partners, and our peers. If we, as affiliates and players, had not investigated and publicized the cheating at Absolute Poker and Ultimatebet, their top management would still be stealing millions of dollars from unsuspecting players.

There are many similarities between these scandals. Both companies tried to deny the charges made against them and sweep things under the rug. Both companies issued threats. In the case of AP/UB, it was publicity and persistence that finally forced an admission of guilt. If we had allowed things to die down AP and UB would have gotten away with stealing millions from the players.

A group of the most respected members of our industry have recently formed an alliance; Affiliate Forum Alliance. The mandate of this alliance, as stated on their home page is:




Since no regulatory body has stepped up, I would suggest that this is the perfect forum to take on the investigation into CAP and CardSpike.

Im not sure the comparisons are the same but even if they are my point is that Michael has met with Warren and now they are at least speaking, thats a start and there is more chance that we can get to the bottom of all this via those two speaking as opposed to loads of allegations, abuse, threats and so on being repeated in the forum.

If they fail to reach a concensus and CAP refuse to acknowledge faults of certain participants etc then i suppose all bets are off, but for now if those two are talking then we should give them a clear road.

The investigation it seems has been concluded, teh accusations there for all to see, now its a question of transparancy and a clear and open statement from CAP, i doubt we will get that if we continue using the forums to badger them, more chance that Michael will achieve this through quiet diplomacy.

[Caruso]

There are some who think the best thing for our industry is to let this scandal die. I have to disagree.

Since this industry is virtually unregulated, it's up to each of us to police ourselves, our partners, and our peers. If we, as affiliates and players, had not investigated and publicized the cheating at Absolute Poker and Ultimatebet, their top management would still be stealing millions of dollars from unsuspecting players.

Exactly the correct perspective. There seem to be a lot of diversionary tactics going on. First a hissy fit and a "resignation" which meant nothing in reality, then a scuffle at an industry event (both of which Lou was behind).

By all means, allow hissy fits and scuffles to fade from memory, whilst learning from them what is to be learnt about the individuals involved. But they are a distraction, and essentially irrelevant to the matter.

The issue is: the ownership of Cardspike and Absolute Slots and the implications thereof. This is not changed with Fabiano challenging Todd to a fight.

[arkyt]

WOW, so my gut feeling may have been correct..."theatrics!"

After all they have done for years, WHY do they deserve yet another chance? Why? This industry reaps what it sows - ignore the crap and continue to forgive the unforgivable and the industry as a whole will never get better.

There seem to be a lot of diversionary tactics going on.

Too many for it to be coincidence! This is starting to add up real quick, and if my gut feeling is right, I, will leave the industry for good!

[joeyl]

Betpartners - As Michael noted previously - he had a good idea about Cardspike before the complaints came in. Maybe he should have spoken up before? Quiet diplomacy did not cut it Betp.

Affiliates - Yep, there are some waffling on about folks enjoying the spectacle.

Maybe that is aimed at those like me who are not big time affs, or just player advocates. Them there trolls I suppose. Still a conspiracy against Lou is it?

The issue of the database sale came before Cardspike. The connotations of what is done by webmasters who have databases of players information are what need thinking about.

There were'nt too many webmasters who seemed overly bothered quite frankly. Most certainly no aff programmes, nil.

Now the affs seem bothered, and maybe some programmes too.

Nip it in the bud next time. Don't sit on information pertinent to the affs and players. Don't be too scared or too moneymad to speak up because it's the big boys. Otherwise, you allow your industry as it's called, to be tainted, and we are all partly to blame for sitting on our hands..

[mojo]

We now have this on top of the CardSpike/Absolute Slots issue. I notice that AS is still on CAP with no disclosure. There is still people not paid from CS. As the pokerkeep said, we police ourselves. It is our responsibility to speak up here and demand justice just like EVERY other rogue situation. We have no problem doing that in the past, why do we now? We are all we have.

Warren talked about wanting to work together as partners, and that an apology on our part would be a first step in making that happen.

I just want to say that as a parent and even as an employer this whole thing must have been extremely difficult for the Corfmans. I admit I would be ballistic if someone did that to my son. I'm pretty emotional that way. I am glad that people are talking. However, not once have I ever seen an apology from CAP. Not once about anything. For Warren to ask one of Michael after this is appalling.

Everyone in this business needs an apology from CAP for putting us here in the first place. To imply people 'enjoy' this is misunderstood. Everyone just wants the Cap to finally do the right thing for once and stop giving us things to write about. We are all exhausted over this and fighting among ourselves. I personally hate this. However, it is our duty to speak up and not sit by and do nothing.

[thepokerkeep]

Im not sure the comparisons are the same but even if they are my point is that Michael has met with Warren and now they are at least speaking, thats a start and there is more chance that we can get to the bottom of all this via those two speaking as opposed to loads of allegations, abuse, threats and so on being repeated in the forum.

If they fail to reach a concensus and CAP refuse to acknowledge faults of certain participants etc then i suppose all bets are off, but for now if those two are talking then we should give them a clear road.

The investigation it seems has been concluded, teh accusations there for all to see, now its a question of transparancy and a clear and open statement from CAP, i doubt we will get that if we continue using the forums to badger them, more chance that Michael will achieve this through quiet diplomacy.

The investigation may or may not be concluded but the issues have not been resolved. I am under the impression J Todd is still working on it.

Putting aside all the theatrics, lies, diversions, bannings, threats, etc... there is still the very serious issue of the monies still owed to players and affiliates.

Since CAP and PAP have made it impossible for anyone to openly discuss this issue on their forums and since CAP's management have still not come clean about any of the allegations, this story can not be allowed to sit on the back burner. The forums here and at PAL, GIA and AGD are the only options CAP has left us to openly discuss the situation. And, in my opinion, it should be discussed.

[Betpartners]

All points above accepted

That said do you not think that with Michael and Warren speaking albeit under difficult circumstances that Michael now has more of a chance to get CAP to admit what went wrong and make an open and clear statement.

People tend not to respond when publicly forced whereas they may well listen to reason privately and then take the neccasary steps to correct what they did wrong.

[mojo]

All points above accepted

That said do you not think that with Michael and Warren speaking albeit under difficult circumstances that Michael now has more of a chance to get CAP to admit what went wrong and make an open and clear statement.

People tend not to respond when publicly forced whereas they may well listen to reason privately and then take the neccasary steps to correct what they did wrong.

Yes, I can agree with that. I wish it were that simple. There will be private talks I would imagine and Michael and Warren seemed to have formed an understanding. We have been at this for about a month now and posters are probably largely disregarded by CAP. But our presence is still here, exhausting as it is, and will remain so until this is settled once and for all. We are a persistant bunch I think.

[Betpartners]

Yes, I can agree with that. I wish it were that simple. There will be private talks I would imagine and Michael and Warren seemed to have formed an understanding. We have been at this for about a month now and posters are probably largely disregarded by CAP. But our presence is still here, exhausting as it is, and will remain so until this is settled once and for all. We are a persistant bunch I think.

Indeed you are

Another point i would like to stress is i do not advocate this being on the back burner or pushed aside and forgotten, i am just saying lets see if this can be resolved privately followed by a clear and open statement.

I also thought Domineqe now runs the CAP forum and therefore it will be more open or so his thread on here says that, though i may be misguided on that as i dont really know.

[thepokerkeep]

I truly hope Michael and Warren can sit down and discuss the situation in a rational manner. I also hope Warren will see the error in the way CAP has handled the situation. I also believe that by keeping the pressure on them through open and public debate will speed up a resolution, not hinder one. Warren must see that the continued publicity will eventually destroy any chance of CAP's survival. If I were in his shoes, I'd want to put this to bed as quickly as possible.

[thepokerkeep]

I also thought Domineqe now runs the CAP forum and therefore it will be more open or so his thread on here says that, though i may be misguided on that as i dont really know.

Dominique is in England and has not been available/able to look after this yet. I believe she will do what she can when she returns.

[Caruso]

Michael now has more of a chance to get CAP to admit what went wrong and make an open and clear statement.

People tend not to respond when publicly forced whereas they may well listen to reason privately and then take the neccasary steps to correct what they did wrong.

But statements were issued in abundance. Did you not read them? There were polite requests, and polite denials. So, politely sitting down to ask polite questions is going to achieve the exact same polite response. CAP is hardly going to admit what they have already denied.

In fact, since Michael published the CAP / Cardspike contract, there has been no comment.

So maybe we can now - politely - ask CAP to comment, and in so doing pick the ball back up from where it was last dropped, when everyone went off to the ICE.

Do you own Cardspike? I do not mean necessarily "legally", but ownership in any normal, understandable interpretation of the word.

If this is denied, how do you explain the contract?

All the rest is a distraction.