Steven assaulted at cap!

[worthy]

With reference to the Queen, there is no more important person in our country than HRH and had he tried to do that with our Liz, he would have ended up in the tower! I think that our Liz is the most important person in the world!

That's too funny...LOL...just pictured Lou giving the boot to Liz just because he can...and feels good about it.

[Nandakishore]

First I want to wish Steve all the best after the treatment he was given by the security guards in a hotel where he obviously had a booked room! This is really preposterous! If this hotel has any sense of dignity and customer service, it should not only apologize to Steve, but also offer some kind of compensation for the manhandling Steve had to go through. Otherwise, I would say, not London but this hotel is an uncivilized place.

Warren talked about wanting to work together as partners, and that an apology on our part would be a first step in making that happen. Personally, I had a hard time wrapping my head around the concept that we owe him an apology and he does not owe us one, but the conversation was in general a positive one with neither of us wanting public confrontations.
Michael

I have read very carefully this thread and the one in PAL. Understandably many of us are hoping for some kind of reconciliation and end of the drama. I can only admire how Michael has reacted to Warren's proposal that this process may be started by GPWA apologizing to CAP a moment after he had to ask Lou to leave the hotel! If he had said, let us make a new begin after Lou apologizes for whatever he has done, I would have had some hope that something positive may come out of CAP and GPWA sitting together to sort out the mess. But now I am confident that the only thing that will work is to expose the whole business behind the CS affair.

And we must boycott any event organized by CAP until they have cleared up the issue and apologized for what has happened in London.

[Dominique]

Just a quick post and update:

Michael, Steve and Jtodd got badges today and were freely attending the conference.

I spent some time talking with Michael and Jtodd and before we knew it hours had passed.

Today restored a lot of confidence in the future. I was getting pretty overwhelmed there, and have been having enough headaches that over the last couple days I took all the tylenol I had brought.

[mojo]

Just a quick post and update:

Michael, Steve and Jtodd got badges today and were freely attending the conference.

I spent some time talking with Michael and Jtodd and before we knew it hours had passed.

Today restored a lot of confidence in the future. I was getting pretty overwhelmed there, and have been having enough headaches that over the last couple days I took all the tylenol I had brought.

That is great to hear Dominique. We would all like to restore confidence but we all know that will be a hard road. For this issue, will there be a public apology to Steven by someone from CAP? I think we would all feel better if that was forthcoming.

Thanks and I hope everyone enjoys the time left in London! Save those tylenals for the hangovers.

[Webzcas]

Until the owners of CAP hold their hands up and take some responsibility for their actions then no rift or division can be repaired. The affiliate programs I have spoken to are not happy about recent events and nor should they be.

I believe in the coming weeks decisive action will be taken by the larger programs. The rest will then surely follow their lead.

[mojo]

I believe in the coming weeks decisive action will be taken by the larger programs. The rest will then surely follow their lead.

If their is no honesty then affiliates will be right there backing up large and small programs. No worries there. Ever see affiliates get angry?

[Anti-Corruption]

If he had said, let us make a new begin after Lou apologizes for whatever he has done, I would have had some hope that something positive may come out of CAP and GPWA sitting together to sort out the mess. But now I am confident that the only thing that will work is to expose the whole business behind the CS affair.

And we must boycott any event organized by CAP until they have cleared up the issue and apologized for what has happened in London.

Nandakishore, you are as right as it gets about the need to expose "the whole business."

This reporter says it well, too:

http://www.onlinecasinoadvisory.com/...ngth-42517.htm

Many online gambling analysts and industry insiders are warning CAP, GPWA, Gambling911, JTodd, and other angry affiliates to not let the CAP scandals and rogue poker room fiasco get out of control. We strongly disagree. Let the fire burn, we say.

one thing they cannot say is that the industry sits back and does nothing when corruption is revealed.

If the world is watching, let them, we say, our true colors are showing through, and they reveal a strong hatred for corruption and monopolies.

It's not for nothing that I chose the name "Anti-Corruption" here. The worst thing you can do is finally shut up and put a nice little lid on what you and others are doing.

All I see with each new report is nothing but the same old predictable responses to being exposed, which only demonstrates the true colors of who and what you are dealing with. So GPWA should take that first step of apologizing for all their evil deeds? Does anyone even need to think about what you are dealing with and what needs to be done after a statement like that?

Follow the money, as it can tell you so many things. Follow it through everything leading up to now, the latest episode, and to some of those who would also have everyone finally put a nice little private lid on things.

Warren showed up and told Todd he would never threaten him and shook Todd's hand."

http://www.casinogamblingweb.com/gam...ing_50921.html

Yeah, I hope so. It's always the smart ones who stay a few yards back and don't get their hands dirty, so I hope he means it and it ain't just same-old good guy/bad buy talk.

Hmm, wonder what that was all about:

http://www.casinogamblingweb.com/gam...ing_50921.html

"I would like to encourage everyone, both members and non-members of CAP, to encourage GPWA, Michael Corfman, Jay Todd, APCW, and whoever else is participating in these attacks against the CAP community to STOP causing this unneeded distraction in our industry. It will hurt you PERSONALLY if Lou is no longer a part of CAP and able to provide the assistance and guidance he has since CAP's inception," said Jolly.

[TheGamblingGuru]

I figured since someone apparently high up the chain at "CAP" had made this comment post on my website/blog yesterday that I also posted here...

https://www.gpwa.org/forum/steven-as...tml#post526479

then I should also write an article fully explaining why I feel the way I do toward "CAP", here is a preface to the article I just published and if anyone wants to read the rest you can find it here....

Casino Affiliate Programs (CAP)

“CAP” stands for “Casino Affiliate Programs” an online gambling affiliate and conference promotion group that offers a centralized promotion type hub for online casinos that pay a fee to have their casino programs listed there, for those of you that do not know what I am talking about here. They have had their website up on the Internet for a little over eight years now. When they first started out they were intentioned on “Rating Casino Affiliate Programs” which I originally believed was a good step forward for the Online Casino Industry in general.

But over the years they started charging a fee for the Casino Affiliate Programs to receive a so called “Safety Seal’ which is “CAP’s” seal of approval that says in....read the rest HERE

[matted]

Well, if anyone was assaulted I do hope charges are being filed. Sounds like there were plenty of eye witnesses.

There simply must be more to this story.

But if it goes as being presented here, I challenge EVERY affiliate manager to withdraw their fees to CAP and attendance at their events until the current management has completely removed themselves from the organization in all regards.

[arkyt]

Michael, Steve and Jtodd got badges today and were freely attending the conference.

Thats sickingly sad and just as I had suspected - this was possibly all theatrics to let CAP slide back into the show like nothing has ever happened. What a joke!

SELL certifications. No Big Deal!
Sell player databases? No Big Deal!
Ban dozens of your members, log on to their accounts post as them, change their avatars, edit their post. No Big Deal!
Contact programs bullying them into staying clear of certain sites / individuals. No Big Deal!
Operate affiliate programs while pushing them on unsuspecting members. No Big Deal!
Challenge members of the community to fist fights. No Big Deal!

Lets sit down and talk then we will all say we are sorry and we can all go back to scratching each others backs. What a pity!

Lord I pray I am wrong - just once. LMAO

[bb1web]

Hi all,

First I sincerely want to convey my concern to both Mr C. as a father myself (and our kids look alot a like) and most of all to that young man who's posts cemented my affection for him (as i said, he reminds me of my son) and earned respect quickly. City Guard, I am so very sorry you had to endure the results of actions of men that are probably twice your age should have learned better by the time they were your age ... and maybe they did and just forgot them ... or let GREED overcome any decency they ever had.

And there are certain parties who DO revel in the stir, have totally lost their focus and by that they have let Lou win. Every single day because that's the first subject they want to hear about .. the first one they're ready to speak on .. and I have lost respect for you people. Lou didn't win until you made it a focus point in your life. CAP and Lou are the smallest piece of lint in a big pocket or they can be the sun your planet orbits ... but you make it that way yourself!

That doesn't mean the issues do not need to be addressed but the posts from those who just seek malicious intent because they have another axe to grind is so old.

It is also what actually adds credibility to anything said by Lou. Look at the gambling911 article.

beaten up. No, not according to CG's father. But when members of cap read such articles or see such obviously slanted posts it only helps lou, it doesn't hurt him. wise up if that is your intent and at least go about it in a way that is effective.


I am still unclear as to what point it was that the decision be made to escort CG? I picture from what I have read a hotel lobby and then I assume a convention room which is either entered thru the lobby or else thru a hallway that connects to the lobby. Was Lou like waiting at the door with the security people and then when he saw CG who would have been at worst case scenario standing at lobby edge peeking into the convention ... did he see him and point him out and (basically) yell "get 'em!"?

Because I would have guessed that Lou would be inside and being luvy-duvy with all the members.

Suffice it to say that unless CG was physically or verbally abusing someone or thing in the convention room then he had every right to be left alone.

However this is where I think some very valid points were made in the last few pages.

The hotel regardless of whether it was Lou's security team or the hotels ... the hotel in the end is responsible for seeing to it that any paying customer staying at their inn .. is given the same respect and the same privlidges as any other unless they note that will not be the case before hand. That is simple.


Lou wasn't in control of the muscles that were used on CityGuard. So yes it was very wrong but the actual cruelness of the act of removing him did fall to the people who did it and THEY should be punished for such an extreme measure. That also to prevent them using such horrible methods on those yet to come.

A simple man on each side suffices and then IF he tries to break use force, ... is far enough effort to escort someone out of the hotel. There was absolutely no reason for arms behind the back treatment. But again I say that was a method most likely chosen by the security team and not ordered by Lou.

Meaning that yes Lou was wrong but it IS possible he had no intention of there ever being any physical harm done.

Now that said: the threats to the father and son outside from the cab I think are outrageous and I feel very ashamed for having ever defended Lou when I asked that as for all ... benefit of doubt be given.

I still give benefit of doubt (but at this point it is just a formality) until I have heard from City Guard himself that the threats were made because for now (unless of course Lou were to confirm) ... it is Mr C's word against Lou's ... (I'm trying to be fair for that sake).

Also ... threats of what nature? Threats such as "you'll never work in this town again!" (town = net) ... have been made for probably centuries without having any real possible harm behind them. Threats such as I'll have you killed ... fall into a very different category. Mr C has not made that clear which were made to him and son.


I still don't know if I will resign membership (at CAP) and am actually expecting to launch my own forum in a couple of days but that was a decision made before all this at London so point being that I would probably not have been at CAP at as much anyway in the coming future though I had hoped for a civil existence between my forum and all others and still hold onto that hope.

I hope all folks will remember that nobody that is a member of cap was behind any of these issues and I suspect that just as myself they visit cap because of their own agenda and nothing to do with supporting or not supporting any other entity than their own. That most do not have the time nor the interest in following these ongoings and if there is a meltdown at cap and those members seek refuge at other forums that they are not made to feel the blunt of hatred that is so obvious in some posters .. for the sins of Lou.

To emphasize that I point to where some of my friends have been done wrong at cap and if it were a popularity contest they would get my vote every time but I need cap for my own purposes ... not because I choose to support Lou or anybody else. If it were not that my family literally depends on my success to have the basic needs of life I would choose very different paths than i have taken on a number of scenarios which would yes include decisions i have made about cap and my membership there.

I would add a sincerest of thank you to those friends whom I did not vote with my feet ... that they are still friends and understood why i made the decisions i made. Sometimes you are just barely holding on as is and any rock of the boat will send it capsized. I have found myself in such dire straights for a while now and truly could not afford to lose what a peer termed as "you use cap to keep from getting screwed by the programs".

That is exactly correct. I don't have the traffic to be able to impose any threat if I were to pull a program. In fact they'd laugh at my face. But when I challenge them in front of the many other affs who are watching ... as long as my post is half-intelligent .. it has to be given fair address by the programs in question. They just are not present at the other forums in the kind of numbers that cap has, or so it would seem.

A lot of what happens at cap in respect to the membership is dependent upon what the programs do and where they choose to make themselves accessible.

again CG: you're in my thoughts and I cannot help but picture my son having been in that situation and needless say it bothers me very much.

[NLP-GOD]

Hi Steve - The problem is the deception. Did Lou tell you some of those programs on his lists his other company was actually operating? - if so why didn't you tell me?

That's a conflict of interest.

Members of PAP felt the same way and the issue actually surfaced because one of the programs EM was directly involved with (CSpike) didn't pay affiliates. PAP members complained, they were banned, and the payments were not made. (I think some of them have now, but some have not) CAP/EM knew what was going on the whole time because they actually ran the program.

So in this case, the idea that "I use CAP to get paid when programs screw me" is thrown out the window - because it depends on what program is screwing you and their relationship to EM/CAP. The problem is there is too much information now that CAP wasn't honest to us. I hope the best for Lou, Steve. As a human thing to do. But at the same time he ruined the integrity of CAP.

[Jinnia]

Thats sickingly sad and just as I had suspected - this was possibly all theatrics to let CAP slide back into the show like nothing has ever happened. What a joke!

SELL certifications. No Big Deal!
Sell player databases? No Big Deal!
Ban dozens of your members, log on to their accounts post as them, change their avatars, edit their post. No Big Deal!
Contact programs bullying them into staying clear of certain sites / individuals. No Big Deal!
Operate affiliate programs while pushing them on unsuspecting members. No Big Deal!
Challenge members of the community to fist fights. No Big Deal!

Lets sit down and talk then we will all say we are sorry and we can all go back to scratching each others backs. What a pity!

Lord I pray I am wrong - just once. LMAO

I feel the same as you arkyt!!

Kiss and let all the wrong doing just fade away!!

What 'end' is being kissed??

[bb1web]

Did Lou tell you some of those programs on his lists his other company was actually operating? - if so why didn't you tell me?

you know I"d have said something ... probably publicly. but I wouldn't have seen a big problem with it other than when I was bit#ing about something with that program I would have went straight to him .

but perhaps its out the window if I were dealing with either of those two programs but really it doesn't take away from the effectiveness of my talking to the other programs in front of legitimate affs such as yourself.

If I call out Grand Prive they still have to address my issue with a competent answer because there are more than just my ears waiting to hear the answer.

What does however throw it all out the window is when legit folks like yourself become fewer in numbers whether it be from bannings or by their own choice.

Any time the community loses a face that has been around a long time or that is a serious competitor ... it hurts us all. Because they don't stop competing .. they just aren't around any more to trade inside info and to boost the size of the herd .. so to speak.

the dark side as some have called it is simply the casino side. Lou was trying to play both sides of the coin but I don't even see why he would try to hide owning it other than from big brother.

I'd use the fact that I owned cap as a selling point to affs to get them to promote my casino. I wouldn't see conflict of interest. I'd be thinking finally these guys can know they're getting a square deal.

Keep in mind that in Steve's world I would be taking an honest approach and therefore have no reason to hide anything. In fact I'd prefer complete transparency so if my casino wasn't making somebody money that they wouldn't think i was stealing from them. And could see plainly that wasn't the case.

But at the same time I would have to find a way to announce to you folks that i owned that casino ... without saying it on paper .. because that's death on a stick for folks in the states. Might as well send a copy to the DOJ.

[sidenote about PM I just got: thanks B for letting me know. Ya ... I didn't catch on it was you ... I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I'm better than none at all ]

on another note brought up by some wise soul:

We are lucky not more attention was given to the matter in London. Most people in the world could give 2 shits about online gambling. They might however catch an article here or there but thats about it. At same time opinion is formed somewhere in the back of their minds.

If I were happening past an article about timeshare companies and what happened in London happened with them ... I would just think I don't want to get involved in that mess. Its a bunch of thugs.

I wouldn't care which side was right and which side was wrong.


I would however file away in the back of my head .. that was an area to avoid. *maybe timeshare was a bad example but you get where i"m going. If this makes mainstream media it hurts us all.

[worthy]

Just a quick post and update:

Michael, Steve and Jtodd got badges today and were freely attending the conference.

I spent some time talking with Michael and Jtodd and before we knew it hours had passed.

Today restored a lot of confidence in the future. I was getting pretty overwhelmed there, and have been having enough headaches that over the last couple days I took all the tylenol I had brought.

Let's hope that it woudn't be boiling down to that GPWA to loose it's credebility too.

[Skinski]

I am so damn glad that I'm a small affiliate in times like this. It just makes it that much easier for me to stand by my morals and no longer be involved in anyway what so ever with CAP. It still amazes me why anyone would after what all I've read and watched and I don't think I'll ever understand the whys.

I hope you are all right Steve. You are a young man, so just try not let what happened to you fester in your mind.

[alexpratt]

Guys - Just wanted to clarify a few things - A member of my staff (after being told by Lou) asked security to remove Steven from the hotel - As soon as I was made aware of this I reversed the decision and had security appologise to Steven.

This was one massive mistake on our part and I am happy to admit it - Steven should never have been escorted out of the venue and we have since (myself and CAP) done our best to make it up to Steven, Michael, etc including aquiring the CCTV footage so we can review the methods the security used which I understand was not appropriate and will of course assist Steven with any complaints he wants to make to the security company.

The good news is that we were able to sort all the Casino City, GPWA and APCW staff with badges the following day on top of having two meetings between CAP and GPWA which in my opinion were really positive.

Again HUGE appologies to Steven - It is not an excuse but Lou has been under a hell of a lot of pressure recently and has received numerous threatening and nasty emails/letters from anonymous people and I think this just built up to London - This is not an excuse but it goes someway to explaining how this situtaion happended - Lou did the following day appologise to both Michael and Steven about his behaviour the previous day which I think is a really great step forward

SO - Lets please not dwell on the negative and stick to the positive and move forward which I truely believe we can do now - We messed up but we made amends as soon as we could and are really keen to build on the positives that came out of this situation.

If you have any questions or need anything else I am just at the end of a PM or email

[TheGamblingGuru]

Guys - Just wanted to clarify a few things - A member of my staff (after being told by Lou) asked security to remove Steven from the hotel - As soon as I was made aware of this I reversed the decision and had security appologise to Steven.

This was one massive mistake on our part and I am happy to admit it - Steven should never have been escorted out of the venue and we have since (myself and CAP) done our best to make it up to Steven, Michael, etc including aquiring the CCTV footage so we can review the methods the security used which I understand was not appropriate and will of course assist Steven with any complaints he wants to make to the security company.

The good news is that we were able to sort all the Casino City, GPWA and APCW staff with badges the following day on top of having two meetings between CAP and GPWA which in my opinion were really positive.

Again HUGE appologies to Steven - It is not an excuse but Lou has been under a hell of a lot of pressure recently and has received numerous threatening and nasty emails/letters from anonymous people and I think this just built up to London - This is not an excuse but it goes someway to explaining how this situtaion happended - Lou did the following day appologise to both Michael and Steven about his behaviour the previous day which I think is a really great step forward

SO - Lets please not dwell on the negative and stick to the positive and move forward which I truely believe we can do now - We messed up but we made amends as soon as we could and are really keen to build on the positives that came out of this situation.

If you have any questions or need anything else I am just at the end of a PM or email

What right do you or anyone else have other than the Hotel itself to have a paying guest removed from the hotel that they have payed to stay at ??

I know if I were Steven, I would have some serious discussion with the Hotel in question regarding a possible lawsuit against the Hotel for allowing such nonsense to happen to him in the first place......

It's one thing to have someone removed from a private event held at a hotel but totally another can of worms to have someone actually removed from the entire property that they have registered and payed to stay at!

EDIT: Another question I have for you is, How or what did you guys actually do for Steven in the way of compensation for the treatment he received from your staff and the security company that you guys hired other than give him a badge to get into your event ?

[Spearmaster]

What right do you or anyone else have other than the Hotel itself to have a paying guest removed from the hotel that they have payed to stay at ??

I know if I were Steven, I would have some serious discussion with the Hotel in question regarding a possible lawsuit against the Hotel for allowing such nonsense to happen to him in the first place......

It's one thing to have someone removed from a private event held at a hotel but totally another can of worms to have someone actually removed from the entire property that they have registered and payed to stay at!

EDIT: Another question I have for you is, How or what did you guys actually do for Steven in the way of compensation for the treatment he received from your staff and the security company that you guys hired other than give him a badge to get into your event ?

With all due respect, I don't think Alex is at fault here in the slightest - we don't know exactly where Steven was, nor what Lou said, but we all agree Steven was poorly treated and as far as I can tell, Alex did his best to right the situation at the earliest opportunity. Michael himself has already acknowledged Alex's professional handling of the situation.

[alexpratt]

As I understand it if you aren't a paying guest in the hotel you can be removed from the premises (Rebecca had a room but Michael, Steven etc didn't) but to be honest this is beside the point - The issue is that it happend and as I say it was a mistake and should not have happended -

I will do my best to help Steven deal with the Novotel which I am sure will also take his complaint (should he make one) very seriously - They are a gigantic company and I am sure value their reputation

I really don't want to get into a discussion about what was right and what was wrong - The people involved have spoken and I believe we are moving forward in a positive way - I really hope you can respect this so we can keep going forward

Cheers

Alex